Manchester Metrolink (Non speculative discussion)

[jfollows]

-Trafford Park Line
-Trafford Depot
-Queens Road Depot

Thanks!

 

[Mothball]

Service suspension from Oldham Mumps to Rochdale from tomorrow morning UFN.

 

[Par]

Service suspension from Oldham Mumps to Rochdale from tomorrow morning UFN.

Until further notice sounds ominous. This is my local line and have need to travel in both the Rochdale and Manchester directions frequently. Will be a real PITA this.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In the days of yore, it would have been possible to run a rail service from Shaw, via Rochdale to Oldham Mumps, reversing at Manchester Victoria.

 

[MetrolinkInsYT]

Service suspension from Oldham Mumps to Rochdale from tomorrow morning UFN.

I wonder if they'll still be carrying out the planned improvement works while this is going on. Has this ever happened before? The land movement affecting the track, I mean.

 

[Tim33160]

Metrolink track works finished at London Rd 24hrs early - trams resumed Piccadilly - Piccadilly Gardens from first tram Tuesday
The replacement buses stopped from 8pm Monday evening!

Slightly thwarted by a car deciding to follow a tram off London Rd into the undercroft !

This was the moment a car became stuck after driving into the Metrolink tram tunnel at Piccadilly station. The blue Fiat 500 became 'trapped' after following a tram from London Road this morning (July 9).
Police were called out to the scene while Metrolink passengers faced disruption, as work took place to move the car. Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM) became aware of the problem at around 9.40am.
It's understood that no serious injuries were reported following the incident and no arrests were made. A number of tram services which run through Piccadilly were affected by the incident.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c.../car-trapped-after-driving-metrolink-29502648

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2024 ==

Until further notice sounds ominous. This is my local line and have need to travel in both the Rochdale and Manchester directions frequently. Will be a real PITA this.

Metrolink services on one Greater Manchester line are set to be suspended tomorrow after 'land movement' affecting the track.

Trams on part of the Rochdale via Oldham line will be halted as engineers work to make the track safe between between Derker and Shaw and Crompton.

Transport bosses said a speed restriction is currently in place in order to allow trams to operate safely this evening. But on Wednesday (July 10), trams will be unable to run beyond Oldham Mumps.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-news/trams-set-suspended-after-line-29510625

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2024 ==

During the disruption to the Rochdale lines - no replacement buses - use tram tickets on local Bee Network buses

Ticket acceptance will be in place on the 17, 57, 59, 81, 83, 84, 114, 149, 181, 182, 402, 403, 409, 411, 434, 435, 436, 450, 451, 455 and 471 bus services and rail services between Rochdale and Manchester City Centre. Simply show the driver/inspector your Metrolink ticket or pass when boarding.

The 434, 435, 436, 450, 451 and 455 services operate every hour. If you require journey assistance, please call Metrolink on 0161 205 2000 or use the customer call points at the stop.

https://tfgm.com/rochdale-line-disruption

 

[Crossover]

I work near the line and coming to work this morning passed a few vans and hi-viz clad workers on Cop Road, near to where the tram line runs near the River Beal (I don't know if the two are connected)

It fits with the location of the issue, being between Derker and Shaw

Approximate location I saw them attached

The vans were parked approximately here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/zTS7UtFtwMZjFbtV8
The workers were around the vans and also at the other side of the bridge where the road crosses the railway

 

[edwin_m]

Until further notice sounds ominous. This is my local line and have need to travel in both the Rochdale and Manchester directions frequently. Will be a real PITA this.

I was a bit involved in the conversion of this route and I think there was a capped mineshaft somewhere in the area. It may be giving trouble now or there may be another previously unknown one. Or it maybe something else entirely.

In the days of yore, it would have been possible to run a rail service from Shaw, via Rochdale to Oldham Mumps, reversing at Manchester Victoria.

It would have been, possibly needing an un-signalled move at Shaw. But considering the time it would take, I'm not sure why anyone would want to.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Not welcome news for the residents of Newhey or Milnrow.

 

[Par]

Not welcome news for the residents of Newhey or Milnrow.

Or indeed Shaw, where I live and is one of the busiest (if not the busiest - it was when heavy rail) stations on the line.

Mrs Par spoke to one of the 'hi-viz' guys at Shaw station this morning advising passengers and was told that it would be closed for "at least a month". I know that is purely speculative and it might be shorter, but it in any event, it doesn't sound like a quick fix?

Any replacement bus service (once in place) I suspect will not have anything like the same operational hours as the trams. For example, on Saturday I need to be at Rochdale Station before 0610 to commence a rail journey to London (via Leeds). I cannot see that there will be any viable method of getting there now except by taxi. (first tram is normally 0529).

I hope something useful can be set up, but I'm not over-confident if I'm honest.

 

[Crossover]

I have been advised elsewhere that the issue is closer to Derker, than being around Cop Road, so maybe it is just been used as an access point, this morning at least

Hopefully RRB's are sorted soon. I know of one colleague who couldn't readily get to work today - having had a quick look, what would normally be 10 minutes on the tram is nearly an hour by a combination of two service buses (at least one of which is only hourly) - so having ticket accpetance on them isn't a panacea by any means

 

[Mothball]

I see today there is no trams all the way from oldham mumps all the wsy to rochdale becaus3 of the problem in between derker and shaw but because the metro trams were still running there last night why cant they run trams from shaw to rochdale?? A very big part of the line is now closed and and it spuns like it may be for a long time possibly

 

[Par]

I see today there is no trams all the way from oldham mumps all the wsy to rochdale becaus3 of the problem in between derker and shaw but because the metro trams were still running there last night why cant they run trams from shaw to rochdale?? A very big part of the line is now closed and and it spuns like it may be for a long time possibly

I expect that this would be because those trams would be effectively “trapped” between Shaw and Rochdale, so no way of overnight stabling, a inability to conduct cleaning / maintenance or the ability to staff the units with drivers adequately?

 

[Mothball]

I did think of that but then i thought about the engineering works done at manchester piccadilly recently because that had also had trams not able to come back to the depot.. i just think it is a shame to have such a big section of the rochdale line closed and it must be very troublesome for the passengers

 

[Mothball]

I did think of that but then i thought about the engineering works done at manchester piccadilly recently because that had also had trams not able to come back to the depot.. i just think it is a shame to have such a big section of the rochdale line closed and it must be very troublesome for the passengers

The Piccadilly works was carefully planned in advance with staff duties, processes and vehicle allocation, Including spare vehicle capacity (that took a hammering in the two weeks alone)

The Shaw issue hasn't had time to set any of that up, factor in the overhead line section might not be able to isolate the worksite without taking out Shaw with it, the unsignaled reversal at Shaw and the unknown length of the closure could leave trams stranded on the wrong side awaiting scheduled maintenance.

 

[507 001]

It’s going to be a while before anything is able to run through. Brace yourselves.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It’s going to be a while before anything is able to run through. Brace yourselves.

Noted. Thanks. Any pics available of the problem area?

 

[507 001]

Noted. Thanks. Any pics available of the problem area?

No pics, but it should be fairly easy to see if you look in the Rochdale direction from the bridge at the end of Meek Street (assuming it’s accessible to the public).

 

[James268]

I did think of that but then i thought about the engineering works done at manchester piccadilly recently because that had also had trams not able to come back to the depot.. i just think it is a shame to have such a big section of the rochdale line closed and it must be very troublesome for the passengers

As said above it'll mean units trapped running Rochdale - Shaw shuttles, assuming the overhead power can be isolated in the closed area. Crew will have to be taxi'd to and from the depot. If any of the units fail or need maintenance while the closure is on then it'll be a nightmare.

Are there that many passengers that would use a service exclusively between Rochdale and Shaw anyway? Or do the majority of passengers use it through the closed section E.G Milnrow - Oldham, Shaw - Oldham, Rochdale - Chadderton etc etc. I'm just guessing here.

No pics, but it should be fairly easy to see if you look in the Rochdale direction from the bridge at the end of Meek Street (assuming it’s accessible to the public).

If the weather isn't too terrible i'll have a walk down in the next couple of days, i'll post pictures if I can see anything.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

No pics, but it should be fairly easy to see if you look in the Rochdale direction from the bridge at the end of Meek Street (assuming it’s accessible to the public).

Sounds like a plan. I'll go get a tram to the nearest station.

Oh, wait!

 

[Par]

Are there that many passengers that would use a service exclusively between Rochdale and Shaw anyway? Or do the majority of passengers use it through the closed section E.G Milnrow - Oldham, Shaw - Oldham, Rochdale - Chadderton etc etc. I'm just guessing here.

It’s now much, much busier in the Rochdale direction than it was in the heavy rail days (when the track was singled limiting frequency) and given that the railway station is poorly positioned for the town centre.

Now, with a return to double-tracking, a 12 minute frequency and trams down to the town centre, it is pretty busy.

Mrs Par (who doesn’t drive) did until very recently have a daily commute from Shaw to Newbold, and this would have been very problematic.

The school year is about to end but, it is well used by kids travelling to Milnrow (from both directions).

Most of our rail journeys commence from Rochdale (see post #550) and we also frequently travel to Manchester, so this is going to be a real pain. I remember well how much more awkward journeys were during the 3 year conversion from heavy rail to light rail.

Very downbeat at this.

 

[507 001]

It’s now much, much busier in the Rochdale direction than it was in the heavy rail days (when the track was singled limiting frequency) and given that the railway station is poorly positioned for the town centre.

Now, with a return to double-tracking, a 12 minute frequency and trams down to the town centre, it is pretty busy.

Mrs Par (who doesn’t drive) did until very recently have a daily commute from Shaw to Newbold, and this would have been very problematic.

The school year is about to end but, it is well used by kids travelling to Milnrow (from both directions).

Most of our rail journeys commence from Rochdale (see post #550) and we also frequently travel to Manchester, so this is going to be a real pain. I remember well how much more awkward journeys were during the 3 year conversion from heavy rail to light rail.

Very downbeat at this.

I get that it’s disappointing, but at least at the moment it appears to be a third party at fault rather than Metrolink.

Little consolation I know.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I was a bit involved in the conversion of this route and I think there was a capped mineshaft somewhere in the area. It may be giving trouble now or there may be another previously unknown one. Or it maybe something else entirely.

This would make sense, as according to this website on the Oldham Coalfield (Rochdale and Oldham Coalfield/), there was a colliery in the area north of Derker tram stop called Lower Moor colliery open from 1859-1880, close to the area of the alleged landslip.

 

[Mothball]

that all make sense but it is unfortunate to passengers.. i do hope ot does not take too long a time to fix..

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This would make sense, as according to this website on the Oldham Coalfield (Rochdale and Oldham Coalfield/), there was a colliery in the area north of Derker tram stop called Lower Moor colliery open from 1859-1880, close to the area of the alleged landslip.

Does anyone know the actual size of the land movement and the geological nature of the strata that lies underneath it?

 

[AlastairFraser]

Does anyone know the actual size of the land movement and the geological nature of the strata that lies underneath it?

I can't answer as to the size of the land movement, however a map of the geological strata of the Oldham Area is found in the Oldham Mills Strategy Landscape Overview, produced in 2021 for the ultimate customer Oldham Metropolitan Borough Council (OMDC).

I've uploaded the specific page here on a PDF hosting site: Oldham geological Map.

The landslip site is along the boundaries of the St Mary's and Royton South wards of OMDC - the map shows the underlying strata to be a mixture of "Pennine Lower Coal Measures" - coal mixed with sedimentary rock like mudstone/sandstone/siltstone, and streaks of "Royley Sandstone" - a local variation of sandstone.

 

[507 001]

Does anyone know the actual size of the land movement and the geological nature of the strata that lies underneath it?

Substantial is all I’m prepared to say at this point.

I’m sure TfGM/KAM will release more information in the coming days.

 

[Crossover]

A bespoke bus timetable will run on Friday/Saturday of 5 buses in the day. Nothing Thursday and Sunday

Full RRB service from Monday

Works on the Alty line being cited as the reason for lack of RRB

As said above it'll mean units trapped running Rochdale - Shaw shuttles, assuming the overhead power can be isolated in the closed area. Crew will have to be taxi'd to and from the depot. If any of the units fail or need maintenance while the closure is on then it'll be a nightmare.

Notwithstanding the security (to the units) implication of outstabling. It isn’t necessarily the most salubrious of areas!

 

[M60lad]

Out of interest where exactly are trams turning at Oldham Mumps?

Also one good thing is that despite the problems on Rochdale line Metrolink are still running the usual (every 5mins) timetable, although I did notice a delay of about 20mins between trams towards Oldham last night at Victoria about 18:30.

At least Metrolink have made the wise decision of not dropping the service to every 12 with doubles with the Shaw service not running.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Out of interest where exactly are trams turning at Oldham Mumps?

There's a crossover just after the tram stop, isn't there?