LNER to pilot removal of Off-Peak tickets

[Krokodil]

And tickets with TOC restrictions, rather than geographical restrictions, are particularly customer unfriendly

Yes, they're the fares that really do need simplifying away. The Anytime, Any Permitted fare should be at a sensible price.

Which shouldn't be difficult for two operators under common ownership.

You'd like to think so, but these days I wouldn't be too sure.

 

[AdamWW]

The Opposition. It's their job to hold the government's feet to the fire.

But possibly not on a policy that might well appeal just as much to them.

 

[thedbdiboy]

The Opposition. It's their job to hold the government's feet to the fire.

But possibly not on a policy that might well appeal just as much to them.

It's one thing to object to anything vaguely unpopular from the safety of opposition, but the prospect of having to manage the economy in its current toxic state in the very near future means that Labour aren't going to commit to any marginal populist causes right now. Anyone remember Nick Clegg and 'no tuition fees'....?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Which shouldn't be difficult for two operators under common ownership.

They might have the same ownership, but the two TOCs have different types of contract to run trains - one is DfT NRC and the other Open Access via ORR/NR.
For one thing, XC revenue goes to the DfT/Treasury, while GC (OA) revenue stays with Arriva.
In the past, the DfT, and the regulator, have been very unhappy with franchise/open access mixtures.
Even within the DfT/franchise setup Virgin had to unpick some of its WC and XC joint management (when it ran both franchises).

 

[Twingo37175]

I assume this is now being move to other routes. I commute 2 days a week from Doncaster to Leeds, usually getting an advance, though the LNER app to get the credits (depending upon price difference) or anytime day return (if I want flexibility on return from Leeds). Sometimes as well splitting through the Rail UK site (given price match is no longer there on the APP).
Having gone to book for tomorrow the only option for "standard return" is 2 advance tickets (£22+ as against £20.40 for anytime day return) or a short distance day return at £33.70.
I assume if I book through the forum site (or northern app) the anytime day return is still valid on all operators (ie both LNER as well as Northern)?

 

[Haywain]

Having gone to book for tomorrow the only option for "standard return" is 2 advance tickets (£22+ as against £20.40 for anytime day return) or a short distance day return at £33.70.

You need to have another look. The £20.40 Anytime Day Return is definitely available for tomorrow on the LNER app.

 

[Twingo37175]

You need to have another look. The £20.40 Anytime Day Return is definitely available for tomorrow on the LNER app.

Thanks Haywain. I swear when I looked earlier it was not showing, it is now!

 

[mangyiscute]

Does anyone know whether LNER advance tickets can be bought say 1 minute before the train is going to leave. I am planning a journey where my bus will get to Berwick 3 mins before the train to London leaves, so obviously I don't want to buy an advance ticket in case the bus is late, but if it is on time LNER have removed off peak singles from this flow, so could I buy an advance if there is a cheap one available 1 min before the train leaves?
My other option is to buy a ticket through to Reading (my final destination) from the TVM but this would take longer so could cause me to miss the train if timings are really tight, although then I can obviously just get a super off peak single for a decent price. I cannot get the ticket to Reading beforehand since I won't be certain to be going this route until the day before by which time I won't be passing through any stations so I would have no opportunity to collect any train tickets, and obviously Berwick to Reading tickets are collection only.

 

[Haywain]

Does anyone know whether LNER advance tickets can be bought say 1 minute before the train is going to leave. I am planning a journey where my bus will get to Berwick 3 mins before the train to London leaves, so obviously I don't want to buy an advance ticket in case the bus is late, but if it is on time LNER have removed off peak singles from this flow, so could I buy an advance if there is a cheap one available 1 min before the train leaves?

It used to be 5 minutes before, but I'm not sure what the setting is now. I would suggest starting the process and getting the ticket in your 'basket' a little earlier than you are due to arrive at Berwick so that you can just complete the purchase if you arrive in sufficient time.

My other option is to buy a ticket through to Reading (my final destination) from the TVM but this would take longer so could cause me to miss the train if timings are really tight, although then I can obviously just get a super off peak single for a decent price. I cannot get the ticket to Reading beforehand since I won't be certain to be going this route until the day before by which time I won't be passing through any stations so I would have no opportunity to collect any train tickets, and obviously Berwick to Reading tickets are collection only.

Another option would be to buy a walk-up ticket to Newcastle, giving you time to look for a better deal from Newcastle to Reading. If you buy on the app, LNER allow you an hour to cancel a ticket if you don't use it, so that is risk free (they also offer this option with Advances but I suspect they might, not entirely unreasonably, refuse the refund after the booked train has departed!).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does anyone know whether LNER advance tickets can be bought say 1 minute before the train is going to leave. I am planning a journey where my bus will get to Berwick 3 mins before the train to London leaves, so obviously I don't want to buy an advance ticket in case the bus is late, but if it is on time LNER have removed off peak singles from this flow, so could I buy an advance if there is a cheap one available 1 min before the train leaves?
My other option is to buy a ticket through to Reading (my final destination) from the TVM but this would take longer so could cause me to miss the train if timings are really tight, although then I can obviously just get a super off peak single for a decent price. I cannot get the ticket to Reading beforehand since I won't be certain to be going this route until the day before by which time I won't be passing through any stations so I would have no opportunity to collect any train tickets, and obviously Berwick to Reading tickets are collection only.

5 minutes before I believe. But there may not be any good value ones left.

Another option is buying a Super Off Peak Single from Reston and starting short at Berwick (which is permitted). But to be honest I'd probably say that arriving at a station 3 minutes before the train by bus is almost certainly going to result in there being insufficient time to buy a ticket - the only vaguely sensible way is to do so using a phone app while the bus is pulling into the station forecourt.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 May 2024 ==

Another option would be to buy a walk-up ticket to Newcastle, giving you time to look for a better deal from Newcastle to Reading. If you buy on the app, LNER allow you an hour to cancel a ticket if you don't use it, so that is risk free (they also offer this option with Advances but I suspect they might, not entirely unreasonably, refuse the refund after the booked train has departed!).

That's a good idea - grab a very quick single to Newcastle, get on the train and take your time to find a good deal on that train (or others if you've got time) from Newcastle, though obviously completing your purchase before it arrives there (and being willing to alight there if it fails). I might be inclined to do that!

 

[mangyiscute]

Yep I just checked if lner would let me book the 13:13 train 1 minute before departure and it does but only an anytime ticket, just shows another reason why this trial sucks! I think the fares from Reston are the same, however, so that is certainly an option, or one of the others you both listed above - thanks for the advice

 

[andythebrave]

You could always use Google Maps, input the destination as the bus stop you're to alight at and if the ETA has you getting there in time when you check just over 5 minutes from train departure away then purchase at that time.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Latest Passenger journeys by operator table shows 5.9 million LNER passenger journeys January to March 2024 compared to 6.0 million LNER passenger journeys January to March 2023. Heathrow Express is the only other train operator with fewer passenger journeys for January to March 2024 than for January to March 2023. There were 8.3 million Avanti West Coast passenger journeys January to March 2024 compared with 6.8 million January to March 2023.

https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/1476/table-1223-passenger-journeys-by-operator.ods

 

[paul1609]

Latest Passenger journeys by operator table shows 5.9 million LNER passenger journeys January to March 2024 compared to 6.0 million LNER passenger journeys January to March 2023. Heathrow Express is the only other train operator with fewer passenger journeys for January to March 2024 than for January to March 2023. There were 8.3 million Avanti West Coast passenger journeys January to March 2024 compared with 6.8 million January to March 2023.

That seems to suggest that LNER have recovered to their pre-pandemic levels wheras AWC are still at around 80 to 85 %
i suspect the real test would be revenue rather than passenger numbers.

 

[BRX]

i suspect the real test would be revenue rather than passenger numbers.

The real test of what?

 

[AdamWW]

The real test of what?

Presumably of whether the trail has been a "success" and should therefore be rolled out to the remaining LNER flows and to other TOCs.

 

[Kite159]

Presumably of whether the trail has been a "success" and should therefore be rolled out to the remaining LNER flows and to other TOCs.

No doubt about that, LNER are probably loving the extra revenue they are getting on Sunday afternoon trains from Edinburgh which were previously capped by the super off-peak rate.

 

[BRX]

If revenue is higher but the number of people travelling is lower, then LNER are going to have to work quite hard on their spin to justify the trial as a "success".

 

[Haywain]

If revenue is higher but the number of people travelling is lower, then LNER are going to have to work quite hard on their spin to justify the trial as a "success".

That depends on whether the objective is to increase revenue or passenger numbers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That depends on whether the objective is to increase revenue or passenger numbers.

The objective internally is clearly the former, but there is a need to take care about not giving the railway even more bad publicity. Train fares are widely seen as too expensive already, and this scheme seems to be aiming to increase fares by around 50% at busy leisure times, even if you don't care about flexibility.

 

[Haywain]

The objective internally is clearly the former, but there is a need to take care about not giving the railway even more bad publicity.

But that could be spun as increasing revenue and reducing overcrowding, so doesn't necessarily garner bad publicity. After all, most people (including journalists) don't see things the way this forum does.

 

[Iskra]

It might only lead to increased revenue in the short term, as passenger habits adapt to avoid the increased fares it may lead to reduced revenue in the long term. That's revenue that could be very hard to win back.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It might only lead to increased revenue in the short term, as passenger habits adapt to avoid the increased fares it may lead to reduced revenue in the long term. That's revenue that could be very hard to win back.

An interesting question in revenue terms is whether people who would normally pay for a Super Off Peak anyway would trade down to a cheaper Advance?

 

[Iskra]

An interesting question in revenue terms is whether people who would normally pay for a Super Off Peak anyway would trade down to a cheaper Advance?

That, or they may shop around. LNER has competition along virtually all its route. Others may not travel at all, fly, get the coach or drive. There is plenty of choice.

The current approach will make the numbers and current leadership look good in the short term, that’s about it, but they’ll probably be happy at that. Short-termism at its finest.

 

[redreni]

But that could be spun as increasing revenue and reducing overcrowding, so doesn't necessarily garner bad publicity. After all, most people (including journalists) don't see things the way this forum does.

Depends how dimwitted people are, I suppose.

 

[weeklycommuter]

According to the following news report the aim of the 'trial' is to increase passenger numbers.

LNER: Train fares 'simplified' in bid to boost passenger numbers

LNER is reducing the number of different train tickets in a two-year trial from 5 February.

www.bbc.co.uk

The number of different tickets available on one of Britain's busiest rail lines is being reduced in a bid to increase passenger numbers.

LNER's managing director David Horne claimed the plan was "vital in making rail travel more attractive".

 

[redreni]

An interesting question in revenue terms is whether people who would normally pay for a Super Off Peak anyway would trade down to a cheaper Advance?

If a cheaper advance exists, of course. It may only exist in the form of a plane or coach ticket.

Of course, since during the pilot even moderately knowledgeable passengers can still get super off-peak fares by changing their destination to a smaller station nearby, the revenue figures quoted will include the fares they are still paying. It remains to be seen if those passengers would pay the higher fares if the loopholes were closed, or if that revenue would be lost.

 

[GoneSouth]

According to the following news report the aim of the 'trial' is to increase passenger numbers.

In which case it certainly can’t be called a success so far!

 

[BRX]

That depends on whether the objective is to increase revenue or passenger numbers.

Well, we can simply look back to the first post of this thread to see what the claimed objectives are.

 

[Haywain]

Well, we can simply look back to the first post of this thread to see what the claimed objectives are.

We can also note that the period being referenced covers less than two months of the trial and for many people travelling during that period will have had no impact as their tickets had already been purchased.