Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[OneTrackMinded]

There was a PIS update in the past few weeks so it's definitely possible.

That's a first then for Aventras if so

 

[norbitonflyer]

Is this week the first week where 701043 hasn’t formed a passenger service?
Also the rarely used 701036 is out on passenger duties today. (Friday)
Edit : allocation changed last minute and 043 is out

036 showing on RTT again today. Will it be substituted again?

 

[3973EXL]

701008

Realtime Trains | 5Q26 0854 Derby Litchurch Lane to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 17/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q26 0854 departure from Derby Litchurch Lane to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 17/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jun 2024 ==

701503

Realtime Trains | 5Q12 1223 Worksop Down Yard to Derby Litchurch Lane | 17/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q12 1223 departure from Worksop Down Yard to Derby Litchurch Lane on 17/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Snow1964]

Will soon know lot more financially on 701s

Rock Rail South Western have filed accounts at Companies House (not yet visible to view, will be readable in few days)

Last year listed values, compensation from Bombardier / Alstom, lease income etc

ROCK RAIL SOUTH WESTERN PLC filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

ROCK RAIL SOUTH WESTERN PLC - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

 

[davews]

I see the first round trip to Windsor was cancelled this morning - 'train late from depot'. Second trip running with 036 according to RTT.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I see the first round trip to Windsor was cancelled this morning - 'train late from depot'. Second trip running with 036 according to RTT.

If the delay was down to the unit, rather than the depot (staff availability?) that demotes 036 to the least reliable member of the fleet. One cancellation in eleven booked round trips (91% reliability)
043 has lost four in 135 - c97%

 

[Notchapple]

Will soon know lot more financially on 701s

Rock Rail South Western have filed accounts at Companies House (not yet visible to view, will be readable in few days)

Last year listed values, compensation from Bombardier / Alstom, lease income etc

ROCK RAIL SOUTH WESTERN PLC filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

ROCK RAIL SOUTH WESTERN PLC - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

£37 million during 2023 from Alstom for "Liquidated damages and project management fees"

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

£37 million during 2023 from Alstom for "Liquidated damages and project management fees"

SWR paid them 28.5m for leasing charges although given the amount of trains allegedly accepted (70) that is low compared to say the 700 fleet which costs 180m pa for 115 units so potentially some rebate have been given to SWR. Given the lease expires in May 25 SWR could walk away although given Rock Rail have spent best part of a billion UK govt reputation would be trashed so highly unlikely.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Given the lease expires in May 25 SWR could walk away

With nationalisation on the horizon apparently units are going to be cascaded everywhere across the sectors (as it's all owned by the same body and is going to be branded all the same [liveries etc]) so after that point the 701s might be moved to where other TOCs use to operate, which is a shame considering the whole point was having one unified fleet for suburban use.

 

[Geeves]

With nationalisation on the horizon apparently units are going to be cascaded everywhere across the sectors (as it's all owned by the same body and is going to be branded all the same [liveries etc]) so after that point the 701s might be moved to where other TOCs use to operate, which is a shame considering the whole point was having one unified fleet for suburban use.

Some trains might be moved around but the 701s have a somewhat limited amount of places they can be "cascaded" to.

I think you're going to be disappointed by what actually occurs in the next 4 years regards to railways. Anyways slowly slowly at least something is happening.

 

[Snow1964]

SWR paid them 28.5m for leasing charges although given the amount of trains allegedly accepted (70) that is low compared to say the 700 fleet which costs 180m pa for 115 units so potentially some rebate have been given to SWR. Given the lease expires in May 25 SWR could walk away although given Rock Rail have spent best part of a billion UK govt reputation would be trashed so highly unlikely.

Have to remember the accounts cover January-December 2023, and from memory in wasn't until quite late in 2023 that some units had modifications and revised software.

So could be leasing charges were just few weeks (in period covered) for the units, and we know from earlier in the thread, a number of units didn't get to Eastleigh until early months of 2024 for modifications so presumably didn't incur any leasing costs in 2023

My hunch is that if someone had list of when each unit was released from Eastleigh fully updated, and add a week for test runs, then that would be close to when full lease rental was payable from.

 

[Goldfish62]

Given the lease expires in May 25 SWR could walk away.

No they can't. They have contractual obligations. Although personally I wish they'd walk away from their national rail contract on 5th July.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jun 2024 ==

With nationalisation on the horizon apparently units are going to be cascaded everywhere across the sectors (as it's all owned by the same body and is going to be branded all the same [liveries etc]) so after that point the 701s might be moved to where other TOCs use to operate, which is a shame considering the whole point was having one unified fleet for suburban use.

They could have been moved before now. As has been pointed out so many times, for the past few years the DfT has been running the railways and making the decisions.

I'm pretty sure that if the 701s had been moved to Southeastern there'd be a good number in service by now.

 

[DMckduck]

I'm pretty sure that if the 701s had been moved to Southeastern there'd be a good number in service by now.

They could but that's probably only because Southeastern drivers have absolutely nothing left to offer and are one of the lowest paid driving grade in the UK and the network is already geared up for DOO.

The south western has never had DOO so there is obviously a lot that needs changing

 

[Goldfish62]

The south western has never had DOO so there is obviously a lot that needs changing

But has had years to get things sorted.

Just as well the 701s weren't ready to enter service as planned in 2019 - they'd still be sat around unused while SWR tries to get to grips with something that other operators have been able to deal with with relative ease.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

But has had years to get things sorted.

Just as well the 701s weren't ready to enter service as planned in 2019 - they'd still be sat around unused while SWR tries to get to grips with something that other operators have been able to deal with with relative ease.

SE's networkers are 10 years younger than the 455s. They exist for SWR, not for SE, and are specced accordingly. SE would probably rather 12 car trains, and they've got a tender out for new stock

 

[Goldfish62]

SE's networkers are 10 years younger than the 455s. They exist for SWR, not for SE, and are specced accordingly. SE would probably rather 12 car trains, and they've got a tender out for new stock

SE would rather get shot of its Networkers right now if it could and had things turned out differently pre-Covid they'd have all gone by now anyway.

The SWR-specified 10-car 707s have fitted in just fine at SE.

I don't agree at all that the 701s exist just for SWR. They could be used on any high capacity inner suburban network with 3rd rail.

Additionally, the SE tender is for new or existing suitable stock.

 

[Peter Sarf]

SE's networkers are 10 years younger than the 455s. They exist for SWR, not for SE, and are specced accordingly. SE would probably rather 12 car trains, and they've got a tender out for new stock

My bold - I doubt 12car. I am assuming the main use on South Eastern of Networkers is on 10 and 8 car routes. So no/little twelve car (375s for that) ?. Thus the ten car 701s would be a good (enough ?) fit for what is predominantly a ten car suburban requirement, likely a limitation due to platform lengths. Perhaps extend the 5car 701s to be 8car !.

What we are thinking is unbelievable really but then the protracted delay in SWR getting on with the 701s is possibly even more unbelievable !. Furthermore SWR passenger numbers seem to be recovering post Covid at a slower rate than other regions/divisions. Give SWR back the 707s and SE take on 701s !.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Big PIS update on the 701s. Design is a lot more consistent and it can even scroll now too

 

[2873]

Do they still have the old Celia announcements with this update?

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Do they still have the old Celia announcements with this update?

Yep, still good old Celia. Although she now says mind the gap at every station

 

[norbitonflyer]

I see the first round trip to Windsor was cancelled this morning - 'train late from depot'. Second trip running with 036 according to RTT.

Third round trip didn't happen yesterday or today. A 1Z29 ran to Bracknell using its path (presumably for Royal Ascot), and a 2Y29 to Windsor running via Brentford, both formed of 2x450,

 

[Russel]

How many of these are in service now?

 

[3973EXL]

Tues 18/06
701504
5Q12 1223 Worksop - Derby Lit

 

[Peter Mugridge]

How many of these are in service now?

Still only one in service part daily, with five units in total having been used.

 

[wickham]

Thank you 3973EXL, but apparently another 5Q12 ran today with 57306 per RTT - possibly another 701/5 ?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

What we are thinking is unbelievable really but then the protracted delay in SWR getting on with the 701s is possibly even more unbelievable !. Furthermore SWR passenger numbers seem to be recovering post Covid at a slower rate than other regions/divisions. Give SWR back the 707s and SE take on 701s !.

Exact point i made several years back and has Stagecoach been left there im sure a repeat order for 707s would have been made but we are where we are and i doubt SE now would want anything to do with 701's.

 

[stadler]

Big PIS update on the 701s. Design is a lot more consistent and it can even scroll now too

I am surprised they have changed that so soon after entering service. It looked fine before but i suppose they wanted to make it clearer. I do quite like the larger text and i think the new layout looks smarter. I think that blue stripe on the top and the SWR name and logo on the bottom is new as well.

Can i also ask does anyone know what PIS that the 701 use? I have never been able to find out. I know the 158 159 444 450 455 456 use Axion and the 707 use Televic and the 484 use TrainFX and the 458 use Alsthom but i have found no information on who provides the 701 system. Does anyone know what system it is?

 

[3973EXL]

Thank you 3973EXL, but apparently another 5Q12 ran today with 57306 per RTT - possibly another 701/5 ?

504 was the last of the four outstanding 7015xx (501 to 504) to move to Derby Lit.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Give SWR back the 707s and SE take on 701s !.

Yes very smart idea. There are 30 707s and 90 701s. The 707s won’t be close to enough to replace all the 455s.

Once again I’d like to mention that the 455s are 10 years older than the networkers. They need to be replaced more than their southeastern equivalents. You could argue that the 455s have had many refurbishments, a retraction, etc, but at the core these trains are over 40 years old while the networkers are 30 years old. The interiors are tired, parts are running low, corrosion is at an all time high. In fact to drive my point home further, they’re having to source things like carriage doors from old PEPs now! It’s ridiculous to even suggest moving the 701s to SE because of that. And most importantly they don’t meet modern passenger standards, a lot more so than the 465. I’m typing this on board a packed evening service with nowhere to sit and little room to stand, while the train continues to boil due to it’s lack of any AC.

I am not denying the networkers are in a bad state. They really are. But we cannot just keep trains 10 years older running, and continuing to make South Western commuter suffer

 

[NSEWonderer]

701s don't have sufficient Battery power anyway at least to the degree SE seemed to be suggesting come an event of a power issue like Lewisham previously.