ORR calls for more competition in station catering

[Goldfish62]

They still seem to have outlets at or nearby to London Waterloo station, also Cambridge, Clapham Junction, East Croydon and Bristol Temple Meads.

Yes, West Cornwall Pasty Company recently replaced the awful Pasty Shop on the main concourse at Waterloo.

 

[Thirteen]

I've always thought it's a bit weird that certain stations have two of some fast food outlets, London Victoria has two McDonald's for example although one is the station itself and the other at Victoria Place.

 

[island]

Victoria Place isn’t Victoria Station, it’s a shopping centre adjacent to the station. Same story with the Bullring, the Metro Centre, the NEC, etc.

 

[DelW]

Yes, West Cornwall Pasty Company recently replaced the awful Pasty Shop on the main concourse at Waterloo.

West Cornwall Pasty Co used to have a standalone kiosk in the low-level entrance area on Waterloo Road. It faced the escalators going down from concourse level. I haven't been out via that way for a while so I don't know its recent or current status, though it may have closed if there's now one at platform level.

 

[Goldfish62]

West Cornwall Pasty Co used to have a standalone kiosk in the low-level entrance area on Waterloo Road. It faced the escalators going down from concourse level. I haven't been out via that way for a while so I don't know its recent or current status, though it may have closed if there's now one at platform level.

It closed at the start of Covid and never reopened. The kiosk has long since been removed. The Pasty Shop continued trading until being replaced by the West Cornwall Pasty Co on the concourse fairly recently.

 

[geoffk]

West Cornwall Pasty Co used to have a standalone kiosk in the low-level entrance area on Waterloo Road. It faced the escalators going down from concourse level. I haven't been out via that way for a while so I don't know its recent or current status, though it may have closed if there's now one at platform level.

Apparently they don't have any in Cornwall!

 

[Goldfish62]

Apparently they don't have any in Cornwall!

No need - there are plenty of far superior pasties available.

 

[Busaholic]

No need - there are plenty of far superior pasties available.

True, but there are as many execrable examples in Cornwall as anywhere else e.g. at a chain of Cornish bakers with three outlets in Penzance alone.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The frustrating thing at many stations is that often everything closes just as frequencies drop, meaning the times you're more likely to be there a while there's no chance of grabbing a bite to eat or even a coffee. A couple of months ago I had a change at Wakefield Westgate (should have been a <10 min change, but NR in their infinite wisdom let the stopper go ahead of the XC I was changing from. So I had a 30min wait at a deserted Westgate which has a Costa, a Subway, a Greggs and a small independent coffee shop which were all closed by 7pm on a Sunday.

Doesn't help that the fancy new building is also far less convenient for the shops in the city centre too.

 

[Goldfish62]

True, but there are as many execrable examples in Cornwall as anywhere else e.g. at a chain of Cornish bakers with three outlets in Penzance alone.

Absolutely!

 

[Geoff DC]

True, but there are as many execrable examples in Cornwall as anywhere else e.g. at a chain of Cornish bakers with three outlets in Penzance alone.

True Bussy - but I'd still rather have a Warrens than a Greggs

 

[sheff1]

The frustrating thing at many stations is that often everything closes just as frequencies drop, meaning the times you're more likely to be there a while there's no chance of grabbing a bite to eat or even a coffee. A couple of months ago I had a change at Wakefield Westgate (should have been a <10 min change, but NR in their infinite wisdom let the stopper go ahead of the XC I was changing from. So I had a 30min wait at a deserted Westgate which has a Costa, a Subway, a Greggs and a small independent coffee shop which were all closed by 7pm on a Sunday.

Doesn't help that the fancy new building is also far less convenient for the shops in the city centre too.

Yes Westgate is particularly poor now. When the new building opened Subway remained open until 2100 - ideal for grabbing a coffee before boarding the last XC to Sheffield. Within a short space of time it had reduced it's hours which caught me out - no doubt they would cite lack of custom.

Pity we don't have the 7-Eleven type outfits that you find at similar sized stations in Denmark - no problem getting a coffee and pastry at 2200 in Silkeborg recently, although to be fair the bus station is next to the railway station, increasing footfall (another idea which is much less common over here).

 

[Recessio]

I've always thought it's a bit weird that certain stations have two of some fast food outlets, London Victoria has two McDonald's for example although one is the station itself and the other at Victoria Place.

Victoria Place isn’t Victoria Station, it’s a shopping centre adjacent to the station. Same story with the Bullring, the Metro Centre, the NEC, etc.

There did used to be two Burger King's inside the station though. Occasionally they'd transfer your order to the other branch if only one had the ingredients.

One has now been demolished to add more gates to the Southern platforms (it really was in a stupid place, right where the Gatwick Express comes in). The other by the Southeastern platforms remains open and trading.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It’s not even the free market. It’s the government.

Network Rail are expected to obtain top dollar for their station premises. Network Rail have done an excellent job in getting that top dollar. So the government complain that’s it’s stifling competition because only the likes of SSP can afford that rent.

The real scandal was the selling off* of the railway arches for buttons to private equity.

(*Yes the lease was sold, but a 150-year lease is effectively a sell off)

 

[D841 Roebuck]

The discussion of the Pie-Rates of Penzance in this thread has given me an annoying ear-worm:

"We sell the latest models of the modern microwaveable -
Which can be bought by card or cash, or vouchers that are saveable.
The new triangle slices are distinguished by a lot of juice
And prices in proportion to the square of the hypotenuse..."

 

[Djgr]

It sounds like yet another example where the benefits of privatisation are swamped by its disbenefits.

 

[island]

It sounds like yet another example where the benefits of privatisation are swamped by its disbenefits.

Network Rail, who controls the rents for station concessions, is and always has been a public entity, but let’s not let facts get in the way of having a pop at privatisation shall we.

 

[Snow1964]

The Final Report has been published 12th June

ORR have found that prices tend to about 10% than in High Street (but varies by retailer)

24% of station leases are under old 1954 legislation where normally just rolls over, and not open to new entrants

Not going to refer to CMA (competition and markets Authority), but going to consider stronger regulatory directions

Have got RDG (rail delivery group) to create working group SSG (station strategy group) to focus on it.

Would like to see more competitiveness in issuing of catering leases

92 pages (and haven't been through it all), so difficult to quote snippets

https://www.directorstalkinterviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/railway-station-catering-market-study-final-report-june-2024.pdf

 

[Kite159]

Is it a bit ironic that Boots have increased the price of their meal deals in station stores compared to high street shops since the ORR started their investigation?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Is it a bit ironic that Boots have increased the price of their meal deals in station stores compared to high street shops since the ORR started their investigation?

I think some high football non-station locations have also seen a price change
Old price remains at the large shopping centre store in Chatham but both London bond Street and Edinburgh Prince's Street West are a fiver
Have they also changed their sandwich supplier? I wonder as the range now seems far smaller than it was and quality lower

 

[185]

Again, I think a good approach would be to limit owner groups to a maximum of 30% of a station's leases.

Break SSP's monopoly and prices will fall.

 

[Haywain]

Again, I think a good approach would be to limit owner groups to a maximum of 30% of a station's leases.

Break SSP's monopoly and prices will fall.

Is it that simple? An advantage with SSP having so many outlets is that they have to have a lot of different brands to warrant operating them - you can't have multiple outlets of the same brand side-by-side. And there is no guarantee that the large chains that SSP has franchises for would want to operate lots of small branches themselves. This isn't about supporting the SSP position, so much as being very careful what we wish for as it doesn't necessarily lead where we might expect.

 

[physics34]

Basically the quality of outlets such as upper crust, le croissant shop and Pumpkin (all ssp) has dropped whilst prices have risen sharply. West Cornwall Pasty (also now SSP) also ridiculous prices. Id also bring back the 20% discount for staff. I dont use them anymore because of the above.

They are too comfortable in their long leases.

You can get a decent frankfurter in a bagette or filled croissant for €3 in most larger german stations.

Moan over.

 

[Carlisle]

To be fair to some outlet owners it took quite a while for footfall to return in decent numbers to many locations after Covid but dilapidated cafes shouldn’t really be an excuse for much longer.

 

[Northerngirl]

10% higher?! Are they comparing to London city centre shops because it's probably more like 40% than any supermarket near me

 

[Djgr]

Amazing that privatisation has led to the illusion of competition hiding a private monopoly!

 

[island]

Amazing that privatisation has led to the illusion of competition hiding a private monopoly!

Go and read posts 106 and 107. I'll wait.

 

[Djgr]

Go and read posts 106 and 107. I'll wait.

Privatisation also refers to that of Travellers Fare (a public monopoly) sold on through various people to SSP (a private monopoly )

 

[Carlisle]

Amazing that privatisation has led to the illusion of competition hiding a private monopoly!

That essentially sums up rail privatisation almost in it’s entirety

 

[Djgr]

That essentially sums up rail privatisation almost in it’s entirety

Indeed. And begs the question, apart from one or two people who now have an additional castle or island, who has benefitted from this madness?