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Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

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AJDesiro

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New signs just gone up at crewe
The vast majority of the stop markers at rugby have also been replaced, other than a 57+390 stop on platform one and a few on platform six.

Most rolling stock specific markers have gone, having been replaced with much simpler markers, the 9/11 390 ones have been replaced with 9-12 markers for all types of rolling stock, though there’s one 805/807 specific one.

They seem to have left it quite late, 730 stop markers started appearing well over a year before they entered service.
 

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LNW-GW Joint

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Does it specify power changeover to diesel in Chester and Liverpool directions?
And I wonder if they will use the wires on the first stretch out of Crewe towards Chester, in either direction (for 60 years solely used for e-stock to reach the depot).
Probably not...
 

DJH1971

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The vast majority of the stop markers at rugby have also been replaced, other than a 57+390 stop on platform one and a few on platform six.

Most rolling stock specific markers have gone, having been replaced with much simpler markers, the 9/11 390 ones have been replaced with 9-12 markers for all types of rolling stock, though there’s one 805/807 specific one.

They seem to have left it quite late, 730 stop markers started appearing well over a year before they entered service.
Clearly leaving out any markers for the 807"s as they are currently out of bounds North of Crewe.
 

danbarjon

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A bit off topic but does anyone know what the 390 11 car Precision stop mark means on Platform 4 at Warrington Bank Quay? As I always thought they used Platform 3 but also I don't think that stop marker exists on Plat 3.
 

ChronicleReb

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Looking at RTT, these appear to be diagrammed as follows? But there are some mysteries.

[mainly deleted in the lighht of further and better particulkars below) better f

1A26 0853 Holyhead to Euston arr 1235
(this arrives on platform 15, from which the next deprature is 9G21, 1240 to Birmingham) In the present timetable, it seems the next diagrammed working for this arrival is 9J38 1816 Euston to Shrewsbury)

1D89 departs platform 2, but the previous arrival on that platform is 1A39 at 1441 from Manchester. In the present timetable, 1D89 is formed from the incoming stock of 1a38 (1232 Chester to Euston arr 1437, which Post 2105 says will still be a 221)

1D89 (B) 1502 Euston to Chester arr 1705

No doubt all will become clear
Annoyingly 9J38 Euston to Shrewsbury and the Shrewsbury to Euston service will not exist at beginning of the New timetables as Avanti have Pulled Shrewsbury out :( As a Shrewsbury Local was quite excited to see an 805 at Shrewsbury. Disappointed now
 

Railperf

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And I wonder if they will use the wires on the first stretch out of Crewe towards Chester, in either direction (for 60 years solely used for e-stock to reach the depot).
Probably not...
Maybe later? Are Avanti / Network Rail planning automatic power changeover locations?
 

Boodiggy

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A bit off topic but does anyone know what the 390 11 car Precision stop mark means on Platform 4 at Warrington Bank Quay? As I always thought they used Platform 3 but also I don't think that stop marker exists on Plat 3.
Precision stop boards are to make sure all doors are accommodated in the platform.
 

Boodiggy

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So in a worst case scenario could the 390s fit on Platform 4 then with that stop board?
Yes I would assume so if there is a stop board!
There are others one being installed for the class 805 running in pairs to including Milton Keynes P1 and a few other places.
 

Bald Rick

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Annoyingly 9J38 Euston to Shrewsbury and the Shrewsbury to Euston service will not exist at beginning of the New timetables as Avanti have Pulled Shrewsbury out :( As a Shrewsbury Local was quite excited to see an 805 at Shrewsbury. Disappointed now

You‘ll have to make do with an extra WMT service per hour to Birmingham all day instead.
 

Railperf

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That is interesting data. Analysis performed several years ago indicated that a high acceleration non-tilt EMU running at the current PS (Permissible Speed) limits would take 8 minutes longer to reach Crewe compared to a Class 390 running in Tilt mode at the EPS (Enhanced Permissible Speed) limits. Both simulations included a single stop at Milton Keynes.
A more detailed analysis of the berth data suggests it was almost 7 minutes behind 1Y17 at Bushey, but ended up 10 minutes behind by the time it passed Kings Langley - posibly indicating an unplanned stop or severe signal check at Watford Junction - nothing planned according to RTT
 

Bald Rick

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A more detailed analysis of the berth data suggests it was almost 7 minutes behind 1Y17 at Bushey, but ended up 10 minutes behind by the time it passed Kings Langley - posibly indicating an unplanned stop or severe signal check at Watford Junction - nothing planned according to RTT

There have been running time checks including stops at Watford, to demonstrate that an 805 can maintain the timings on the existing ‘PS’ speed profile.
 

Toby268

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There have been running time checks including stops at Watford, to demonstrate that an 805 can maintain the timings on the existing ‘PS’ speed profile.
if they now think they can maintain the timings on the PS speed profile, why bother with the line speed project at all.
 

Boodiggy

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Have they or when will the change to speed signage happen?
awaiting LSL still
They haven’t agreed to the network change.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

if they now think they can maintain the timings on the PS speed profile, why bother with the line speed project at all.
They will lose time. Their SRTs are based on the MU speeds.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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I know we have to protect and be fair to all users of the WCML, but this is pretty ridiculous.
Not sure how LSL paying virtually bugger all into the pot are holding the Network Change to ransom like this. The only reason they can exist is because the bulk of the costs are borne by the taxpayer in the first place.
 

craigybagel

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Not sure how LSL paying virtually bugger all into the pot are holding the Network Change to ransom like this. The only reason they can exist is because the bulk of the costs are borne by the taxpayer in the first place.
Having once been looped whilst driving an on-time Class 1 to allow one of their late running Class 5's to get past me, nothing surprises me any more. They run a fantastic operation, but they seem to get treated at times more like an actual Intercity operator rather than a heritage company with Intercity painted on some of their trains.
 

AJDesiro

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Maybe later? Are Avanti / Network Rail planning automatic power changeover locations?
Nope, this video from managers at Avanti states that they will use manual changeover while stopped at stations:
(44:37 if it hasn’t automatically loaded at that timestamp).

It also includes many in depth details regarding the fleet itself.
 

Railperf

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Because this is nothing to do with 221s but to do with not-tilt rolling stock running at 125mph on the WCML which LSL does have (HSTs).
It actually benefits them, as they are planning to run the Class 89 at some point which has the performance to utilise the 110mph+ sections far more usefully than the slower accelerating HST's. What is there for them them to object to? It's a win win all round?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

There have been running time checks including stops at Watford, to demonstrate that an 805 can maintain the timings on the existing ‘PS’ speed profile.
Around 99 minutes net Crewe to Euston is possible for 110mph stock, so by the time you add in some engineering allowances and the additional time needed for a 2 minute stop, there is no way the 805's can maintain 125mph non-tilt timings to Crewe.
 
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Boodiggy

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I know we have to protect and be fair to all users of the WCML, but this is pretty ridiculous.
Agreed!

Like most things on the railway there is likely more to it, and the whole project of MU speed is behind, but I would have thought the compatibility for operators like LSL who only have one train that can use the speeds would be achieved without issue.
 
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Railperf

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Agreed!

Like most things on the railway there is likely more to it, and the whole project of MU speed is behind, but I would have thought the compatibility for operators like LSL who only have one train that can use the speeds would be achieved without issue.
Possibly the issue that Class 89 and Mk3's won't be given MU classification? And therefore be limited to PS speeds? If I were at LSL, that would be my concern.
 
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