Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 Stadler FLIRTs

[CapitalStar378]

First 231 in passenger service to Treherbert this morning...

Realtime Trains | 2T00 0636 Cardiff Central to Treherbert | 18/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 2T00 0636 departure from Cardiff Central to Treherbert on 18/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Are there spare 231s or will this just mean extra 150s on the Rhymney line? Assume this would just be until the 756s start in summer.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

150282 1612 to Treherbert (from Cardiff Central)
231008 1610 to Cardiff Central (from Treherbert)
Cathays

Finally the demise of the rancid 150s from uni town.

 

[CardiffKid]

Great to see these finally in service.

Edit: (on this route).

 

[norbitonflyer]

Great to see these finally in service.

They've been in service for a while on the Rhymney line. Hopefully this sight means the 756s will soon appear on that line

 

[BillStampy]

They've been in service for a while on the Rhymney line. Hopefully this sight means the 756s will soon appear on that line

756's have started testing operated by Transport for Wales between Canton and Pontypridd recently, expected introduction in June, supposedly at the time of the June timetable change

 

[MikePJ]

756's have started testing operated by Transport for Wales between Canton and Pontypridd recently, expected introduction in June, supposedly at the time of the June timetable change

The TfW publicity video says that the 756s are being tested on that route because they're being expected to be used for the National Eisteddfod in Pontypridd in August - they'll certainly provide more capacity and a nicer experience than the Sprinters.

However, as the June timetable change was designed not to need any new rolling stock (i.e. it doesn't need 756s and 398s), it does mean that it's fairly low-risk to introduce the 756s at that point, as they can fall back to existing stock should there be problems.

 

[Hwnt52]

756116 on test today:
1 Passing Danescourt Station enroute to Pontypridd , 2 At Radyr returning to Canton.

 

[Kanzo]

Pretty sure I saw a flirt pass waun gron at 8 in the morning today. Was that a 756 on test?

 

[trawscymru27]

Pretty sure I saw a flirt pass waun gron at 8 in the morning today. Was that a 756 on test?

Yes, there are now regular training runs between Canton and Ponypridd via the city line on weekdays. For example: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:V18474/2024-04-23/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[Bornin1980s]

Have the 756s yet done passenger carrying runs away from the wires?

 

[sd0733]

Have the 756s yet done passenger carrying runs away from the wires?

The 756 hasn't done a passenger carrying run anywhere, on or off the wires yet

 

[Russel]

This has probably been asked already but I don't fancy sifting through 56 pages...

Why did TFW order the 231 fleet, given there is only planned to be 11(?), why not just order the same number of extra class 197's?

 

[Trainbike46]

This has probably been asked already but I don't fancy sifting through 56 pages...

Why did TFW order the 231 fleet, given there is only planned to be 11(?), why not just order the same number of extra class 197's?

The 231s are very similar to the 756s - so they do form a single larger fleet, but with them rather than with the 197s

 

[Bornin1980s]

What routes do the 231s currently run on? I will be moving to Devon, just over two hours from Cardiff, and I have long wanted a bash on a Stadler.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

What routes do the 231s currently run on? I will be moving to Devon, just over two hours from Cardiff, and I have long wanted a bash on a Stadler.

Almost all Rhymney/Bargoed/Ystrad - Penarth via Cardiff services.
Usually one works a Treherbert - Cardiff diagram at the moment.
And in the late evening one goes to Barry Island.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Will all Rhymney line services be 231s after the June timetable change?
Also, what would be good places to visit along these lines?

 

[Envoy]

Will all Rhymney line services be 231s after the June timetable change?
Also, what would be good places to visit along these lines?

On the Rhymney line, Caerphilly would be a good place to visit to see the medieval castle. The town is not up to much. At Lisvane & Thornhill in north Cardiff is Cefn-Onn-Onn-Park which is at it’s best in May with Azaleas & Rhododendrons in flower.

 

[Anonymous10]

On the Rhymney line, Caerphilly would be a good place to visit to see the medieval castle. The town is not up to much. At Lisvane & Thornhill in north Cardiff is Cefn-Onn-Onn-Park which is at it’s best in May with Azaleas & Rhododendrons in flower.

There's also a rather nice street food scene coming along in Caerphilly.

 

[Western 52]

There's also a rather nice street food scene coming along in Caerphilly.

Roath Park is a short walk from Heath High Level. Nice lake and rose gardens. Heath Park is also nearby and has a miniature railway open on certain days.

 

[Dai Corner]

Will all Rhymney line services be 231s after the June timetable change?
Also, what would be good places to visit along these lines?

If you fancy coming back a different way, get the Stagecoach 1 bus from Rhymney to Merthyr Tydfil which offers great views and a surprisingly rural section with cattle grids and sheep in the road. A Valleys day ranger is valid.

 

[Mollman]

This has probably been asked already but I don't fancy sifting through 56 pages...

Why did TFW order the 231 fleet, given there is only planned to be 11(?), why not just order the same number of extra class 197's?

The 231s are more of a 'metro' train than the 197s which have an interior for longer distance work. In theory the 231s could also be converted to bi-modes if required/ further electrification happened in South Wales

 

[Lurcheroo]

This has probably been asked already but I don't fancy sifting through 56 pages...

Why did TFW order the 231 fleet, given there is only planned to be 11(?), why not just order the same number of extra class 197's?

None seems to have mentioned that TFW do have some sort of plan that they can ‘activate’ and have pantograph's added to the 231’s.

The 231s are more of a 'metro' train than the 197s which have an interior for longer distance work. In theory the 231s could also be converted to bi-modes if required/ further electrification happened in South Wales

Whilst the FLIRTS are more of a metro style design, the 197’s are through and through a shorter distance commuter style design. But obviously TFW are using them on their long distances services. TFW did at least pay for better seats to make longer distances more bearable. I’m a fan of 197’s but their is definitely stock much much better designed for long distance.
Some people would even say that the FLIRTS are more suitable for long distance services than the 197’s due to how rough the 197’s can be.

 

[Dai Corner]

None seems to have mentioned that TFW do have some sort of plan that they can ‘activate’ and have pantograph's added to the 231’s.


Whilst the FLIRTS are more of a metro style design, the 197’s are through and through a shorter distance commuter style design. But obviously TFW are using them on their long distances services. TFW did at least pay for better seats to make longer distances more bearable. I’m a fan of 197’s but their is definitely stock much much better designed for long distance.
Some people would even say that the FLIRTS are more suitable for long distance services than the 197’s due to how rough the 197’s can be.

I thought FLIRT stood for 'Fast Light Intercity and Regional Train' - the sort of work the 197s are doing?

 

[Lurcheroo]

I thought FLIRT stood for 'Fast Light Intercity and Regional Train' - the sort of work the 197s are doing?

Sounds about right.
The 756’s have a max speed of just 75mph but the 231’s are 90mph
Greater Anglia’s units are 100mph so they seem like a very flexible platform. To suit the design needs. But they have doors in the centre of carriages and don’t have end vestibules like most people associate with longer distance stock.
Looking at the GA 12 car units, they seem hugely better for long distance than the 197’s do, the 756’s not so much with their max speed of 75mph.

 

[Trainbike46]

Sounds about right.
The 756’s have a max speed of just 75mph but the 231’s are 90mph
Greater Anglia’s units are 100mph so they seem like a very flexible platform. To suit the design needs. But they have doors in the centre of carriages and don’t have end vestibules like most people associate with longer distance stock.
Looking at the GA 12 car units, they seem hugely better for long distance than the 197’s do, the 756’s not so much with their max speed of 75mph.

The GA ones were reported to be upgradeable to 110 mph if desired in the future, and the FLIRT platform also exist for 125 mph trains, so definitely a very flexible platform

The 745 even have 'vestibules', ie doors between the area with the external doors and the seats - though not at the end of the carriage obviously

 

[Lurcheroo]

The GA ones were reported to be upgradeable to 110 mph if desired in the future, and the FLIRT platform also exist for 125 mph trains, so definitely a very flexible platform

The 745 even have 'vestibules', ie doors between the area with the external doors and the seats - though not at the end of the carriage obviously

Pretty interesting!
The 745’s look like really nice units to be honest. I did try and have a look and it seems like they had them in first class but not standard ? Or at least not at every external door anyway.

I think it’s a shame we didn’t see something like the 745’s just with 5 or 6 coaches. 1 of those being first class and 1 being the shop for some of the longer distance routes.

I’m not sure they would have been suitable for some routes such as the Cambrian though, with only 2 coaches being need for many services and lots of portion working. so not sure how it would have worked out really.

Back to topic, I still need to go for a ride on a 231.

 

[RailWonderer]

I thought FLIRT stood for 'Fast Light Intercity and Regional Train' - the sort of work the 197s are doing?

I'm not sure about the terms (and cost limitations) of TfW's tender but CAF units are known to be cheaper than Stadler so it isn't surprising larger numbers of CAF units were ordered. Stadler can build for just about any distance length and specification if need be, and have done around Europe. The Valley Lines are more of an S-bahn style service so the interior spec is just right for what they do and similar to what you get in Europe for that length of service. The 197s are more a jack of all trades design as they aren't just doing long distance but mid and shorter distance services as well, so are more like an updated Class 170 in that repsect.

A Stadler version of the 197 would be a 755, or a WINK variant.

The doors on the TfW Stadlers do look odd, it seems the Welsh still lack trust in Swiss single double door layouts being sufficient for dwell times. On GA single double doors work absolutely fine for all the services they run.

The 745’s look like really nice units to be honest. I did try and have a look and it seems like they had them in first class but not standard ? Or at least not at every external door anyway.

Vestibule doors are throughout the train, they just keep them permanently open most of the time, although the ambience is much nicer when they are closed.

 

[Lurcheroo]

I'm not sure about the terms (and cost limitations) of TfW's tender but CAF units are known to be cheaper than Stadler so it isn't surprising larger numbers of CAF units were ordered. Stadler can build for just about any distance length and specification if need be, and have done around Europe. The Valley Lines are more of an S-bahn style service so the interior spec is just right for what they do and similar to what you get in Europe for that length of service. The 197s are more a jack of all trades design as they aren't just doing long distance but mid and shorter distance services as well, so are more like an updated Class 170 in that repsect.

A Stadler version of the 197 would be a 755, or a WINK variant.

The doors on the TfW Stadlers do look odd, it seems the Welsh still lack trust in Swiss single double door layouts being sufficient for dwell times. On GA single double doors work absolutely fine for all the services they run.

Vestibule doors are throughout the train, they just keep them permanently open most of the time, although the ambience is much nicer when they are closed.

Very informative! Thanks.

 

[AlexNL]

I'm not sure about the terms (and cost limitations) of TfW's tender but CAF units are known to be cheaper than Stadler so it isn't surprising larger numbers of CAF units were ordered.

A while ago I saw the following table with the purchase prices of the new TfW rolling stock. It was posted on Twitter, I saved the image but unfortunately I did not save who posted it so I can't credit anyone.

 

[Trainbike46]

A while ago I saw the following table with the purchase prices of the new TfW rolling stock. It was posted on Twitter, I saved the image but unfortunately I did not save who posted it so I can't credit anyone.

wow, the price of a 3-car 197 is closer to a 4-car 231 than I expected

And the 398s seems surprisingly cheap