Ivanhoe line (via Coalville) - potential reopening?

[ChrisC]

Oh dear! I've not properly visited Leicester yet, I think I popped out to the station front many years ago but that's as far as I've got. The place is definitely on my list of places to explore, and surely it can't be as bad as Aylesbury and Bedford!

It’s only just over 40 miles from where I live to Leicester, but it isn’t a city I’ve visited very often. This summer I had 3 days there, staying in the Premier Inn next to the station, and found it a very interesting city to visit.

Parts of it are more historic than I’d realised and the area around the Cathedral is very nice with some lovely old streets and buildings. The King Richard III Visitor Centre is fascinating and well worth a visit. The area around St Mary de Castro Church is worth exploring with its old gateways and walls and there are even Roman remains at the Jewry Wall. There were other interesting museums including The National Space Centre with the Industrial Museum next door which were both reached by a pleasant walk through Abbey Park with its extensive Abbey ruins. Not far from the Station New Walk has some interesting buildings and a good museum. The Botanical Gardens just to the south of the city centre were also worth a visit.

I hadn’t realised how much there was to see and do in Leicester. It’s certainly not all bad but like so many cities the walk into the centre from the station does not give a good first impression. I’ve never been to Aylesbury or Bedford so can’t compare.

 

[didcotdean]

I hadn’t realised how much there was to see and do in Leicester...

The gravity of Leicester City Centre has moved somewhat through recent decades and Granby Street has seen a lot better days.

For those that need it there is a free electric bus (Hop!) that runs every ten minutes between 8:00 and 18:00 from the rail station on a circular route that goes past most of the places in the centre you mention above.

 

[Techniquest]

Thank you @ChrisC for the recommendations, I'll definitely put Leicester on my to-do list

 

[vic-rijrode]

Thank you @ChrisC for the recommendations, I'll definitely put Leicester on my to-do list

Of course there is also Shackerstone Station on the Battlefield Line out of town if you have a car.

 

[D6130]

Of course there is also Shackerstone Station on the Battlefield Line out of town if you have a car.

For those of us who don't have cars....I believe there is a bus from Nuneaton to Market Bosworth, which is not too far to walk to Shackerstone station.

 

[vic-rijrode]

For those of us who don't have cars....I believe there is a bus from Nuneaton to Market Bosworth, which is not to far to walk to Shackerstone station.

There is a 153 bus which runs from Leicester once an hour during the day, but sadly not on a Sunday. The station closest to Market Bosworth is ... Market Bosworth, just under a mile away. Shackerstone Station is not realistically walkable from Market Bosworth (you actually pass Market Bosworth Station on the way!).

There does not appear to be a bus from Nuneation to Market Bosworth any more and sadly no train from Shackerstone to Burton.

 

[HOOVER29]

Scratching my head here. Central Trains C150's had Ivanhoe on their destination blinds as an option, what where they for?

Saw Ashby De La Zouch on an EMR 158 at Derby once

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Oct 2023 ==

I doubt Network Rail wants to see many/any more services eating into route capacity for the meagre returns additional stops at Peatree would bring.

When it comes to Leicester passengers, I very much doubt that any future link offered by a re-opened Ivanhoe line would be faster to access XC services in either direction at Burton than the present 2TPH
offering via Derby.


The northern section might be far cheaper to open, but I'd have thought the southern section would generate more traffic, and Leicester (and points south to London) be the preferred journeys if the line were to reopen - assuming some sort of reasonably smart answer could be found for accessing Leicester station. (And I wouldn't rule out some sort of reversing platform at Knighton to provide that.)

Personally, I would fear the opposite. If only the Coalville to Burton (and onto Derby) section were opened, I would worry that passenger numbers would not meet the forecasts, and that would kill the chances of reopening to

I live near Coalville and the local FB groups are full of moaners and angry people about it not going to Leicester but none have read the info from NR etc or even bothered to think about it in detail.

South of Coalville there is a lot of potential freight traffic, there is a couple of big quarries with many paths for big heavy stone trains. You would have to fit the passenger paths in and around these… which brings us to the next points…

The line is also single for a lot (if not all) of it, I can’t fully remember as it’s been a while since I followed the line, but having walked over various bits on my jaunts in the countryside lots is single track so that limits the options for passing..

Then you get to the issue of the north chord missing and the land built on, so now your looking at a reversal somewhere, which eats into capacity on the main line,

It is also tied into Leicester remodeling which isn’t happening right now and the money for the opening is a set amount.. ie we have X amount what can you open with that? Oh and by the way you have until the next election to sort it all out (not sure if that’s just get it costed and the wheels in motion.. Ie signed off but I guess so as the chance of it being finished is 0) and clearly sorting a missing chord and / or adding passing loops isn’t cheap.

North of Coalville very little runs, I think last time I checked there is a coupe trains a week that’s it, so pathing for north is a lot easier and you don’t need any extra infrastructure as such I am guessing, so cheaper and quicker meaning you hit the budget and time restrictions too.

Once north it open and if it’s used then campaign for phase 2 getting into Leicester, but alot of the locals don’t understand or see this,

Currently there is a monthly test train but that’s it
(Live next to the line at Ashby)

 

[1D54]

Thank you @ChrisC for the recommendations, I'll definitely put Leicester on my to-do list

I've lived on the outskirts of Leicester for 50 years and my advice would be to put it at the back of your to-do list. It's a bloody awful city and if real ale is your thing there are about five pubs worth doing.

 

[Techniquest]

I've lived on the outskirts of Leicester for 50 years and my advice would be to put it at the back of your to-do list. It's a bloody awful city and if real ale is your thing there are about five pubs worth doing.

It cannot be as much of a dump as Leominster is, that is still top of my list of places I absolutely detest. Real ale was my thing 4 years ago, happily teetotal these days

It's fair to say I wonder why there's a campaign to get Leicester connected to the Ivanhoe Line again if it's as bad a place as I'm reading! I'd guess a lot of it is down to people wanting a train to travel to work/school/college or similar on?

 

[zwk500]

It's fair to say I wonder why there's a campaign to get Leicester connected to the Ivanhoe Line again if it's as bad a place as I'm reading! I'd guess a lot of it is down to people wanting a train to travel to work/school/college or similar on?

Because it's a large city compared to the rest of the area and a bit of additional connectivity wouldn't be a bad thing for it or the towns on the rail corridor. Being able to move out to a town with a decent rail connection in the National Forest would be rather an attractive prospect to many.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Leicester is a great city. Don’t believe the naysayers.

(Too many fond memories of gigs at the Princess Charlotte when I was a fresh-faced youngster…)

 

[Techniquest]

Well when I finally get to Leicester and explore it, I'll be sure to discuss it in my trip reports thread Trust me, there will be an opinion on the place and I hope it won't be a bad one

Back to the Ivanhoe Line project, I can't recall if it was already mentioned but is there a projected time for when we'll know more about the re-opening?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Well when I finally get to Leicester and explore it, I'll be sure to discuss it in my trip reports thread Trust me, there will be an opinion on the place and I hope it won't be a bad one

Back to the Ivanhoe Line project, I can't recall if it was already mentioned but is there a projected time for when we'll know more about the re-opening?

With a blinding flash and a puff of smoke, the promises disappeared.
From The Guardian, Sunday 8 October

HS2: announced transport projects were just ‘examples’, says minister​

Documents detailing projects to be funded with savings from scrapping HS2 deleted from government website

 

[Techniquest]

Oh that's a shame. Not only are we being denied HS2 to Manchester, which annoys me greatly, but now we may be losing out on some great alternatives

 

[zwk500]

Oh that's a shame. Not only are we being denied HS2 to Manchester, which annoys me greatly, but now we may be losing out on some great alternatives

Was anybody genuinely expecting the PM to keep his obviously-desparate word?

 

[Techniquest]

Was anybody genuinely expecting the PM to keep his obviously-desparate word?

I don't follow politics or the news in general, so I don't know how much of it is just made-up or whatever, but it appears my faith in the PM to do a good job is misplaced.

I would have expected some level of truth out of the PM though, and my faith in them is gone. Worse, my trust is no longer with them.

 

[M7R]

The Coalville to Derby part is still very much on the cards, it’s just the bottom bit to Leicester which was a sound bite from the speech that everyone jumped on but it was clear it hadn’t been thought through as just high level attention grabbing headlines with no actual substance…

Leicester is alright as a city, the shopping isn’t too bad etc but personally I prefer going to Burton shopping even though it is further away

 

[Travelmonkey]

The Coalville to Derby part is still very much on the cards, it’s just the bottom bit to Leicester which was a sound bite from the speech that everyone jumped on but it was clear it hadn’t been thought through as just high level attention grabbing headlines with no actual substance…

Leicester is alright as a city, the shopping isn’t too bad etc but personally I prefer going to Burton shopping even though it is further away

Me meanwhile I opt for Swad rather than going into Burton myself regardless I do hope it can be pulled off a direct Burton-Coalville train with scope for line improvement so when the line between Spondon-Long Eaton/EMP gets compromised a diversion for the intercities via Ivenhoe would be very useful.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Me meanwhile I opt for Swad rather than going into Burton myself regardless I do hope it can be pulled off a direct Burton-Coalville train with scope for line improvement so when the line between Spondon-Long Eaton/EMP gets compromised a diversion for the intercities via Ivenhoe would be very useful.

By diversion here - do you mean divert EMR inter-city St Pancras - Sheffield trains via Coalville, if the Spondon route were blocked and the Coalfille line were to be fully re-instated?

If so, I think you'd be very much mistaken. I'd say this is a bit like the hope for a renewed LSWR north Deven line Exeter via Okehampton to Plymouth being used as a diversion for the loss of the GWR route.

Even if the Coalville line were to be fully reopened Burton - Leicester (and I'd love to see that), it surely will remain single track for much of its length, greatly resticting capacity, certainly not enough to allow the extra 2 TPH each way needed for Sheffields.

And I seriously doubt EMR (or whoever is operating the service) will train drivers and guards for a once every now and again emergency diversion over this slow route.

Should the Spondon route be blocked, I'm afraid it will mean sending the trains via the Erewash to Sheffield, with buses from Loughboro' or East Midlands Parkway to Long Eaton and Derby.

 

[Hairy Bear]

Largely covered now by using the Castle Donnington branch, so an unnecessary diversion.

Previously costed as poor return on investment, I can't see this ever happening.

 

[HOOVER29]

By diversion here - do you mean divert EMR inter-city St Pancras - Sheffield trains via Coalville, if the Spondon route were blocked and the Coalfille line were to be fully re-instated?

If so, I think you'd be very much mistaken. I'd say this is a bit like the hope for a renewed LSWR north Deven line Exeter via Okehampton to Plymouth being used as a diversion for the loss of the GWR route.

Even if the Coalville line were to be fully reopened Burton - Leicester (and I'd love to see that), it surely will remain single track for much of its length, greatly resticting capacity, certainly not enough to allow the extra 2 TPH each way needed for Sheffields.

And I seriously doubt EMR (or whoever is operating the service) will train drivers and guards for a once every now and again emergency diversion over this slow route.

Should the Spondon route be blocked, I'm afraid it will mean sending the trains via the Erewash to Sheffield, with buses from Loughboro' or East Midlands Parkway to Long Eaton and Derby.

Saw EMR Meridians pass while in the garden a few years ago

Not a clue what they were doing or destination sorry

Heading towards Bardon from the Burton direction though

 

[70014IronDuke]

Largely covered now by using. the. Castle Donnington branch. So unesserary diversion.

Of course! Silly of me to forget the Castle Donnington loop.

 

[Philip]

Do you think the Leicester to Burton upon Trent line should be upgraded to allow a restoration of stations and a passenger service on it? Swadlincote and Ashby-de-la-Zouch are both fairly large towns and a Leicester-Burton shuttle service calling at these stations would probably be fairly well used, particularly if it then extended to Derby or Birmingham.

I know it would require the construction of a short north to west chord in Leicester to connect the Burton line into the northbound MML (thus into Leicester Station), but there appears to be space to do this inbetween the Halfords garage and athletics track.

 

[JonathanH]

I know it would require the construction of a short north to west chord in Leicester to connect the Burton line into the northbound MML (thus into Leicester Station), but there appears to be space to do this inbetween the Halfords garage and athletics track.

Or reversal at Wigston which is a cheaper option.

Or just a platform south of Leicester - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/mml-future-changes.251250/page-2#post-6310900

 

[Philip]

Or reversal at Wigston which is a cheaper option.

Or just a platform south of Leicester - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/mml-future-changes.251250/page-2#post-6310900

A reversal would add an unnecessary time penalty and reduce the value in reopening the stations along the route. The majority of passengers would want to use the main station in Leicester for access to the city centre and for connections beyond Leicester.

 

[Philip]

A new chord from west to north onto the MML would only be a couple of hundred yards or so long by the looks of it and wouldn't require demolition of buildings, so surely it wouldn't be that expensive?

 

[JonathanH]

A new chord from west to north onto the MML would only be a couple of hundred yards or so long by the looks of it and wouldn't require demolition of buildings, so surely it wouldn't be that expensive?

Did you not read the previous discussion that I provided a link to?

A chord needs major planning consent, compulsory purchase etc. Just that process adds millions to the project, before a sleeper is laid, new junctions, signalling, etc.

 

[zwk500]

Do you think the Leicester to Burton upon Trent line should be upgraded to allow a restoration of stations and a passenger service on it? Swadlincote and Ashby-de-la-Zouch are both fairly large towns and a Leicester-Burton shuttle service calling at these stations would probably be fairly well used, particularly if it then extended to Derby or Birmingham.

I know it would require the construction of a short north to west chord in Leicester to connect the Burton line into the northbound MML (thus into Leicester Station), but there appears to be space to do this inbetween the Halfords garage and athletics track.

The restoration of services between Derby and Coalville is currently being studied under the Restoring Your Railways and Network North plans. Extension to Leicester is not part of the current proposals, due to the fact that you'd need to demolish quite a lot to build the chord and there's limited capacity at Leicester itself.

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/la...cester-could-cost-additional-271m-09-11-2023/

 

[Philip]

Did you not read the previous discussion that I provided a link to?

I appreciate that any new stretch of line would be very expensive in general terms, but this proposal would be relatively cheap compared with other similar projects, because it would be so short and no buildings in the way. I think even if you ran a Leicester-Burton shuttle calling at Ashby & Swadlincote, it would generate a fair but of custom - more so if you could also extend to Birmingham.

 

[Philip]

The restoration of services between Derby and Coalville is currently being studied under the Restoring Your Railways and Network North plans. Extension to Leicester is not part of the current proposals, due to the fact that you'd need to demolish quite a lot to build the chord and there's limited capacity at Leicester itself.

Is there room at Leicester for a new south-facing bay platform? Even with limited capacity and without a new platform, there still may be room to create another path.

I have looked at a satellite above the junction between MML and Leicester-Burton, there is a small area of green space north west of the current junction (east of the athletics track) of which you could build a chord through. It'd be short and tight, but looks doable.