South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Krokodil]

Would someone like to delve into the point to point matrix shared on another thread (the CSV file is too large to load in Google Sheets) to find out just how many passengers actually do travel from Aberdare (plus Mountain Ash etc.) to Cathays?

 

[Tumbleweed]

So basically the Merthyr -Cardiff service continues to Aberdare via the City Line and vice versa?

 

[positron]

So basically the Merthyr -Cardiff service continues to Aberdare via the City Line and vice versa?

It seems to suggest no. It reverses at Central back up to Aberdare.

For this temporary arrangement anyway. Eventually the plan is to loop I think.

 

[AdamWW]

It seems to suggest no. It reverses at Central back up to Aberdare.

For this temporary arrangement anyway. Eventually the plan is to loop I think.

I would imagine that a fair proportion of travel on the City Line is to Queen Street and losing the direct link doesn't seem to be particularly helpful (along with the trains probably being a lot busier than at present).

If I've read the tables correctly, it means there will be a Sunday service on the city line (1st time ever since reopening in the 80s?).

Just opening, not reopening, I think.

So far as I know, apart from football specials to Ninian Park, the line was freight only until the City Line services started.

Interesting that the City Line gets Sunday trains but not Coryton. Presumably because the City Line can be served by diverting trains down from the Valleys.

They won’t run to the Bay. Only 398s will go there once the final service is in place. 756s will also go to Barry and Bridgend.

If the line goes over to line of sight operation as I believe is intended, 398s will be the only things allowed on the Bay line. (Unless maybe someone brought a 399 up to Cardiff?)

 

[Markdvdman]

I have to say that the loss of direct services to Barry is killer for me. As it stands, I tend to do one train to work, one train back except a Friday when I go West. So will be 4 trains a day! Will be interesting to see how reliable changes will be I can imagine it will NOT go smoothly!

 

[Envoy]

Hopefully someone from TfW will come on here and state clearly what the intention is regarding the City line?

If the trains come down from Aberdare and then reverse back from Central via the City Line this will not be beneficial to many people: for example, by coming down from Aberdare and then looping through Central and back to the valleys via Llandaff (north) it means that passengers from the City Line in west Cardiff keep direct services to Queen Street and Cathays. (They will be losing direct services to Heath and stations on the Coryton Line - and vice versa).

I trust that extra toilet provision has now been built at Central in readiness for all the people from/to the Central Valleys who will be switching from the Class 398 tram-trains to services to/from the coast?

I think a lot more people will be changing at Radyr.

 

[CardiffKid]

I trust that extra toilet provision has now been built at Central in readiness for all the people from/to the Central Valleys who will be switching from the Class 398 tram-trains to services to/from the coast?

What extra toliets at central?

 

[MikePJ]

Hopefully someone from TfW will come on here and state clearly what the intention is regarding the City line?

If the trains come down from Aberdare and then reverse back from Central via the City Line this will not be beneficial to many people: for example, by coming down from Aberdare and then looping through Central and back to the valleys via Llandaff (north) it means that passengers from the City Line in west Cardiff keep direct services to Queen Street and Cathays. (They will be losing direct services to Heath and stations on the Coryton Line - and vice versa).

I trust that extra toilet provision has now been built at Central in readiness for all the people from/to the Central Valleys who will be switching from the Class 398 tram-trains to services to/from the coast?

I think a lot more people will be changing at Radyr.

I'm not from TfW but I did read the consultation documents. The June '24 timetable is a transitional timetable - it's intended to move towards the long-term service pattern, but to do so in a way that doesn't rely on the additional capabilities brought by either new trains or of infrastructure upgrades. The Aberdare trains will go to central via the City Line and then reverse and go back the way they came. However, that's not the eventual plan - the intended long-term service pattern (see this map https://www.railforums.co.uk/attachments/metro-png.77884/ ) is to loop via the City Line and Queen St. Since the City Line can only handle 2tph and there will eventually be 4tph to the head of each Valley, the Aberdare trains will most likely alternate loop directions, with 2tph anticlockwise and 2tph clockwise.

One of the big changes with the Metro is the change from a service with one-seat rides to one where changing is expected, and getting the convenience and reliability right will be key to the system's success or failure.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

OK but with 6tph from Ponty to Cathays the short way plus 2tph the long way it’s not a massive inconvenience for those going to Cathays is it?

But when you think of the yonks of inconvenience the Metro works have caused, for that to then lead to a reduction in service is poor.

 

[John R]

Since the City Line can only handle 2tph and there will eventually be 4tph to the head of each Valley, the Aberdare trains will most likely alternate loop directions, with 2tph anticlockwise and 2tph clockwise.

IIRC, two services from each valley will head to the Bay, so there will still be a service from Aberdare direct to Queen St and Cathays in the final timetable.

 

[CardiffKid]

But when you think of the yonks of inconvenience the Metro works have caused, for that to then lead to a reduction in service is poor.

Temporary inconvenience. All be it another temporary inconvenience, but a temporary one.

IIRC, two services from each valley will head to the Bay, so there will still be a service from Aberdare direct to Queen St and Cathays in the final timetable.

Exactly this.

 

[Bob Price]

Heath High Level has masts

 

[Western 52]

Heath High Level has masts View attachment 148935View attachment 148936View attachment 148937

Interesting, I was wondering how they'd locate them with the high embankment there. Looks very different to when I commuted from that station in the 1980s!

 

[Hwnt52]

Would someone like to delve into the point to point matrix shared on another thread (the CSV file is too large to load in Google Sheets) to find out just how many passengers actually do travel from Aberdare (plus Mountain Ash etc.) to Cathays?

I think you need to be very careful interpreting sych figures. Many people, myself included, buy a return ticket to Central, get off at Cathays and maybe return from Central or Queen Street. We think of all three as one and use whichever is most convenient.

 

[John R]

I think you need to be very careful interpreting sych figures. Many people, myself included, buy a return ticket to Central, get off at Cathays and maybe return from Central or Queen Street. We think of all three as one and use whichever is most convenient.

And as the fare (day or season) is the same to all three stations there is no reason why anyone would buy a ticket to Cathays when they could get the additional flexibility of a ticket to Central.

 

[Pat Figg]

This is going to be a massive inconvenience for current passengers from Aberdare who travel to Llandaf (me), Cathays and Queen Street. I don't have any figures but I'd guess it's about half the train. Using the current timetable it will involve changing trains at Ponty/Trefforest/Taffs Well/Radyr and waiting 15 minutes for the next train down. That's a pretty long wait when you're used to getting there directly. Hopefully the extra trains from Ponty will be slotted into that gap but we all know that when they're short of train crew or "more trains than usual are being repaired" that's the service that will get axed. Wouldn't it make more sense for the the extra trains from Ponty to go via the City Line rather than pissing off the existing passengers? It's not so bad for me as Danescourt, Fairwater and Waun Gron Park are all about the same distance from my place of work as Llandaf is. The most annoying thing though is the current fare system which uses zones to calculate the fare but doesn't show zones on the ticket. If I bought a ticket to Fairwater it wouldn't be valid to travel back from Llandaf even though it's in the same zone. I could buy a ticket to Central which would be valid for both routes but it's an extra 2 quid. At the moment I've got a weekly ticket to go between Aberdare and Maesteg which means I can go anywhere on the Vale of Glamorgan line (except Penarth) but if I wanted to go to Porth (ok, it's closed at the moment) or Quakers Yard which are in the same "zone" as Aberdare it would cost me about 4 quid. When I buy a weekly with the intention of using it for Cardiff Central I always make sure to buy it to a station way beyond as it's exactly the same price. I usually choose Maesteg as it gives you more options if you do actually choose to use it but sometimes I go for Rhymney or Ebbw Vale.

 

[anthony263]

I thought the aberdare trains were going in the cityline to Cardiff Central then continuing to Merthyr Tydfil via Cathays with trai s from merthyr doing the reverse?

 

[John R]

I thought the aberdare trains were going in the cityline to Cardiff Central then continuing to Merthyr Tydfil via Cathays with trai s from merthyr doing the reverse?

We are talking about the interim timetable here, not the final one. I believe what you describe will happen for the final one for two of the four trains per hour. Remember that under the full timetable each valley will have two tph direct to Cardiff Bay, so much less of an issue.

 

[Tom125]

I assume we are also talking about an unpublished interim timetable as well? So we don’t know the connection times at Radyr?

 

[positron]

It can't be ponty to the bay ones that go via city line because the bay isn't connected to central so they'd have to reverse at queen street which would be horribly inefficient. Imo I think they'd be better off doing Ponty to Central and then send the aberdare ones to the bay. It wouldn't be that bad to have to swap at queen street for central compared to those who need to swap at Ponty or Radyr for cathays etc.

Are there any updates on the Christmas engineering works. I'd be interested if there's any details on changed at queen street.

 

[AdamWW]

It can't be ponty to the bay ones that go via city line because the bay isn't connected to central so they'd have to reverse at queen street which would be horribly inefficient. Imo I think they'd be better off doing Ponty to Central and then send the aberdare ones to the bay. It wouldn't be that bad to have to swap at queen street for central compared to those who need to swap at Ponty or Radyr for cathays etc.

Are there any updates on the Christmas engineering works. I'd be interested if there's any details on changed at queen street.

The problem with using the Pontypridd services on the City Line may be that if there is a still a unit shortage they will get cancelled (or not even make it into the "timetable of the day".

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Temporary inconvenience. All be it another temporary inconvenience, but a temporary one.

A temporary (three years) inconvenience that leads to a worse service pattern than before.

 

[Avowedsevern]

I’ve got a feeling they’ll roll back on the 4tph on the Valley’s lines, is there any word on how much faster travel times should be (seeing as one of their main claims was that it’ll shave 15mins+ off point to point station travel)?

 

[John R]

I’ve got a feeling they’ll roll back on the 4tph on the Valley’s lines, is there any word on how much faster travel times should be (seeing as one of their main claims was that it’ll shave 15mins+ off point to point station travel)?

They’ll have a lot of expensive trams and drivers sitting around if they do.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I’ve got a feeling they’ll roll back on the 4tph on the Valley’s lines, is there any word on how much faster travel times should be (seeing as one of their main claims was that it’ll shave 15mins+ off point to point station travel)?

I really can't imagine they will. All the works over the last two years will have been pointless if they do.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I’ve got a feeling they’ll roll back on the 4tph on the Valley’s lines, is there any word on how much faster travel times should be (seeing as one of their main claims was that it’ll shave 15mins+ off point to point station travel)?

I can't see that happening except maybe north of Bargoed where the population thins out compared to the other CVLs.

 

[positron]

I can't see that happening except maybe north of Bargoed where the population thins out compared to the other CVLs.

It'd be particularly pointless for that though because they can't use that cut back to double up more trams.

 

[Dai Corner]

It'd be particularly pointless for that though because they can't use that cut back to double up more trams.

Any 756s freed up could be used on the other Valley lines, though not coupled to 398s or to Cardiff Bay.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

It'd be particularly pointless for that though because they can't use that cut back to double up more trams.

My point was more that the poulation of the upper Rhymney valley is comparatively small and that 4tph might be seen as excessive - particularly on valley lines that aren't getting that frequency and where 756s could run ie Ebbw Vale, Maesteg and the VOG .

I know that the plan is for 756s to be stabled at Rhymney so there are some operational reasons for keeping to the high frequency but if passenger numbers north of Bargoed prove to be low there could be a rethink.

 

[anthony263]

My point was more that the poulation of the upper Rhymney valley is comparatively small and that 4tph might be seen as excessive - particularly on valley lines that aren't getting that frequency and where 756s could run ie Ebbw Vale, Maesteg and the VOG .

I know that the plan is for 756s to be stabled at Rhymney so there are some operational reasons for keeping to the high frequency but if passenger numbers north of Bargoed prove to be low there could be a rethink.

Rhymney could end up attracting new customers with the increase in frequency plus people from say merthyr who don't want to use the class 398s