CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Anonymous10]

Lots of positive news there! Nice to see the back of the 150s on the mainline, but we'll still have them on the Pembroke line for a while.

Could well see pembroke dock operate pairs of 153s which are usually what turn up on that line anyway in my experience.

 

[BenBracken]

TfW app and RTT indicate direct Manchester services returning on Monday. But I took that with a pinch of salt tbh. I’ll see what actually appears on Monday morning!

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Not sure when some of these proving runs ran but next week is planned to see introductions of:
-197 operation Carmarthen to Milford Haven/Fishguard (3 car max)
-6 car clearance between Swansea and Holyhead (not yet Shrewsbury-Manchester though and 4 car if calling at any Swanline stations
-Ferryside issue resolved

Unit acceptance also seems to have restarted.

With the introduction of the 5+2 Mk4s as well next week it should be a big jump especially on the Marches (units permitting).

Next stages are for the VOG, Swansea District and Maesteg to be done before Treherbert reopens to allow all the 150s to leave the mainline to cover the Valleys.

TfW app and RTT indicate direct Manchester services returning on Monday. But I took that with a pinch of salt tbh. I’ll see what actually appears on Monday morning!

I'll refer you to this post. Direct services will be happening.

 

[Jez]

Excellent news about 197s finally operating to Milford Haven from next week. Now the entire route West Wales to Manchester will be covered (aside from the few that operate to Tenby/Pembroke Dock).

I just hope there will be enough 197s to cover all services and also enough carriages! 4 carriages will be most welcome on Swansea-Cardiff/Manchester services as they are extremely busy.

Any news on a date for Maesteg to switch over to 197s and is it still the plan for Ebbw Vale to also switch to 197s until the 231s can be moved from Valleys?

 

[anthony263]

Need extra 3 carriage 197s as it be easier

 

[sd0733]

I'll refer you to this post. Direct services will be happening.

It's not guaranteed to be 197s on Monday yet but will be in by the end of the week. Presumably direct services will run but just be covered by 15x if its not Monday.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Dec 2023 ==

Need extra 3 carriage 197s as it be easier

That's what will happen as the next batches of units for acceptance are all 3 cars.

 

[anthony263]

It's not guaranteed to be 197s on Monday yet but will be in by the end of the week. Presumably direct services will run but just be covered by 15x if its not Monday.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Dec 2023 ==


That's what will happen as the next batches of units for acceptance are all 3 cars.

Should have ordered extra 3 carriage 197s I can see 6 carriage trains being needed on South Wales to Manchester services soon

 

[sd0733]

Should have ordered extra 3 carriage 197s I can see 6 carriage trains being needed on South Wales to Manchester services soon

From what I understand, the latest plan is that there will be some 6 car diagrams on the Marches to Manchester later next year on some of the busiest services.

2 cars should be gone by the late Spring with everything 3 minimum and majority 5/6 car by October seems to be the latest dates.
The 2s released off the Marches will then be paired for strengthening in North Wales over the summer.

Things do keep changing so may well be altered but that's the last I heard!

 

[Wyrleybart]

Is it time to try and summarize the net gains and net losses to the TfW fleet in the last 12 months ?

Losses
4 2 car 170
8 3 car 170
11 2 car 175
16 3 car 175
8 4 car 769
x x

Gains
x 2 car 197
x 3 car 197
5 3 car 230 finally in traffic
11 4 car 231s
X 3 car 756s NOT YET IN TRAFFIC
x class 398 Tram trains NOT YET IN TRAFFIC
x Mk4 sets


Can anyone add to this ?

 

[BenBracken]

I’ll place bets on it being twin 153s or a 158 on the Monday services out of Haverfordwest! But someone from TfW has just commented on their latest post that they are expecting 197s on Milford/Fishguard services next week.

 

[sd0733]

Is it time to try and summarize the net gains and net losses to the TfW fleet in the last 12 months ?

Losses
4 2 car 170
8 3 car 170
11 2 car 175
16 3 car 175
8 4 car 769
x x

Gains
x 2 car 197
x 3 car 197
5 3 car 230 finally in traffic
x Mk4 sets


Can anyone add to this ?

197 2 cars= 31 sets (197001-021/042-051)
197 3 car= 9 sets (197101/104-106/108-112
Mk4= Max of 6 sets (HD01/02/04-07) so far but should be 7th soon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Dec 2023 ==

But someone from TfW has just commented on their latest post that they are expecting 197s on Milford/Fishguard services next week.

They are, see post #5369 in this thread

 

[Western 52]

Is it time to try and summarize the net gains and net losses to the TfW fleet in the last 12 months ?

Losses
4 2 car 170
8 3 car 170
11 2 car 175
16 3 car 175
8 4 car 769
x x

Gains
x 2 car 197
x 3 car 197
5 3 car 230 finally in traffic
11 4 car 231s
X 3 car 756s NOT YET IN TRAFFIC
x class 398 Tram trains NOT YET IN TRAFFIC
x Mk4 sets


Can anyone add to this ?

2 x 150 returned to Northern too.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Whilst it is true, those two Northern 150/2s were a loan, and how many TOCs get the chance of that ?
Apart from the trio at Bletchley

 

[CardiffKid]

Gains

X 3 car 756s NOT YET IN TRAFFIC
x class 398 Tram trains NOT YET IN TRAFFIC

For the calculation I assume you’re trying to make I wouldn’t include units not yet in service.

The question that should be asked is what is the max seats/capacity that is available today versus 15th Dec 2022.

 

[sd0733]

Tomorrow's diagrammed Milford/Fishguard 197s are:

Milford:
04:50 Carmarthen to Milford Haven
05:54 Milford Haven to Cardiff Central

06:00 Carmarthen to Milford Haven
07:02 Milford Haven to Manchester Pic

05:35 Cardiff Central to Milford Haven
09:10 Milford Haven to Manchester Pic

07:45 Cardiff Central to Milford Haven
11:04 Milford Haven to Manchester Pic

10:06 Cardiff Central to Milford Haven
13:03 Milford Haven to Manchester Pic

12:04 Cardiff Central to Milford Haven
15:04 Milford Haven to Manchester Pic

13:49 Cardiff Central to Milford Haven
17:15 Milford Haven to Manchester Pic

15:49 Cardiff Central to Milford Haven
19:15 Milford Haven to Cardiff Central

17:47 Cardiff Central to Milford Haven
20:46 Milford Haven to Carmarthen

Fishguard:
05:50 Carmarthen to Fishguard
06:50 Fishguard to Clarbeston Road
07:20 Clarbeston Road to Fishguard
07:55 Fishguard to Cardiff Central

21:03 Carmarthen to Fishguard
22:15 Fishguard to Carmarthen

Some are already showing 197s allocated but obviously as always could be some on the day swapping!

With the latest increase the only non 197/Mk4 booked to Manchester now is the missing Mk4 diagram (05:30 Swansea-Manchester, 10:30 to Cardiff, 14:49 to Manchester, 18:30 to Cardiff) which is currently a 4 car 150 diagram short term

 

[Topological]

If only there was a 17:15 Milford Haven to Manchester Piccadilly (I presume this is the one that stops in Cardiff according to the public timetable but is then booked to form the train to Piccadilly. That stay in Cardiff then being too short for the train to be a valid connection.

 

[Jez]

If only there was a 17:15 Milford Haven to Manchester Piccadilly (I presume this is the one that stops in Cardiff according to the public timetable but is then booked to form the train to Piccadilly. That stay in Cardiff then being too short for the train to be a valid connection.

I've never understood why that one doesn't run as a through service to Piccadlly.

 

[BenBracken]

Tomorrow's diagrammed Milford/Fishguard 197s are:

Milford:
04:50 Carmarthen to Milford Haven
05:54 Milford Haven to Cardiff Central

06:00 Carmarthen to Milford Haven
07:02 Milford Haven to Manchester Pic

05:35 Cardiff Central to Milford Haven
09:10 Milford Haven to Manchester Pic

07:45 Cardiff Central to Milford Haven
11:04 Milford Haven to Manchester Pic

10:06 Cardiff Central to Milford Haven
13:03 Milford Haven to Manchester Pic

12:04 Cardiff Central to Milford Haven
15:04 Milford Haven to Manchester Pic

13:49 Cardiff Central to Milford Haven
17:15 Milford Haven to Manchester Pic

15:49 Cardiff Central to Milford Haven
19:15 Milford Haven to Cardiff Central

17:47 Cardiff Central to Milford Haven
20:46 Milford Haven to Carmarthen

Fishguard:
05:50 Carmarthen to Fishguard
06:50 Fishguard to Clarbeston Road
07:20 Clarbeston Road to Fishguard
07:55 Fishguard to Cardiff Central

21:03 Carmarthen to Fishguard
22:15 Fishguard to Carmarthen

Some are already showing 197s allocated but obviously as always could be some on the day swapping!

I’ll be on the lookout tomorrow to see what appears!

 

[sd0733]

The "Business zone" on the 197s with it fitted will now be used as soon as units enter service running as Standard Plus and looking like all upgrades will be done on train, 197115 should be the first of the Standard plus units.

Not been through every fare but of the ones ive seen, the prices look to be set at 50% of the price of 1st class upgrade on the Mk4s.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The "Business zone" on the 197s with it fitted will now be used as soon as units enter service running as Standard Plus and looking like all upgrades will be done on train, 197115 should be the first of the Standard plus units.

Not been through every fare but of the ones ive seen, the prices look to be set at 50% of the price of 1st class upgrade on the Mk4s.

Amazing! Thanks so much for this update

 

[33017]

If only there was a 17:15 Milford Haven to Manchester Piccadilly (I presume this is the one that stops in Cardiff according to the public timetable but is then booked to form the train to Piccadilly. That stay in Cardiff then being too short for the train to be a valid connection.

It is a valid connection (7 minutes) and shows when using Nationalrail.

 

[Philip]

The "Business zone" on the 197s with it fitted will now be used as soon as units enter service running as Standard Plus and looking like all upgrades will be done on train, 197115 should be the first of the Standard plus units.

Not been through every fare but of the ones ive seen, the prices look to be set at 50% of the price of 1st class upgrade on the Mk4s.

Will the standard plus-197s be confined to South Wales services, or is the plan to use them on both of the main routes and offer the standard plus on Manchester-North Wales?

 

[Western 52]

Where in the carriage is the standard plus seating? If it's above the bogie the ride will be awful.

 

[BenBracken]

According to RTT 018 has just arrived in MH. I didn’t actually spot it on the way into work this morning but it’s a big day for west Wales. First actual new trains since the 158s over 30 years ago? (If we count 175s as second hand).

 

[CardiffKid]

Will the standard plus-197s be confined to South Wales services, or is the plan to use them on both of the main routes and offer the standard plus on Manchester-North Wales?

On paper, Swansea to Manchester only.

(I’m sure a set will ‘escape’ at some point and the business zone will get declassified)

 

[Jez]

Good news that the 197s have finally reached Milford Haven in passenger service.

With the business zone/standard plus, will specific services in the timetable initially be allocated this service or will it be random? Until there are enough for all Swansea to Manchester's? I wouldnt want to plan a journey to sample the standard plus service and be disappointed.

 

[BenBracken]

First day of operation out of Haverfordwest.

 

[GWVillager]

Where in the carriage is the standard plus seating? If it's above the bogie the ride will be awful.

There’s a diagram here - some of it is over a bogie but there is also about half of the “between doors” section 2+ as well. (Courtesy Rhydgaled).

 

[Western 52]

There’s a diagram here - some of it is over a bogie but there is also about half of the “between doors” section 2+ as well. (Courtesy Rhydgaled).View attachment 148750

Hopefully the seats will have enough padding to absorb the worst vibrations!

 

[Leeds1970]

had the misfortune to travel on a 2 car 197 on Friday just as bad as the Northern 196 - welcome to the new pacer ! -