Portsmouth Harbour-Cardiff Central GWR

[Snow1964]

Shortage of units is getting very bad on the line

Today from real time trains
1F01 3car 166
1F03 4car 158
1F05 2car 158
1F07 3car 166
1F09 4car (currently showing as a 165+158), but they can't couple
1F11 3car 166
1F13 5car 165 (2car 165 and 3car 165)
1F15 3car 165
1F17 3car 166 (repeats from here, same set as 1F01)
1F19 4car 158
1F21 2car 158

So basically just one 5 car, one 4 car, four 3 car, one 2car, and 8th train will probably also be 2car.
So three quarters of the service 3cars or less


There is a summary of the short forms in this letter (it is route EF13) and shows 7.6% of booked seats didn't operate, and line is 0.54% below the lower minimum seats agreed with DfT

https://d3cez36w5wymxj.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/28144203/Mark-Hopwood-CBE-from-GWR-letter-to-Transport-Focus.pdf

 

[Towers]

Shortage of units is getting very bad on the line

…

There is a summary of the short forms in this letter (it is route EF13) and shows 7.6% of booked seats didn't operate, and line is 0.54% below the lower minimum seats agreed with DfT

https://d3cez36w5wymxj.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/28144203/Mark-Hopwood-CBE-from-GWR-letter-to-Transport-Focus.pdf

Worth remembering, of course, that this is the same DfT who compelled GWR to dispatch numerous perfectly serviceable diesel trains recently to storage/export/scrap wherever, contributing enormously to the above situation.

 

[Mike Machin]

I, together with a number of colleagues used to frequently travel Romsey to Bristol TM and back for business during the day. It's virtually impossible to get a seat now, so we drive.

 

[FGW_DID]

Shortage of units is getting very bad on the line

Today from real time trains
1F01 3car 166 [As Booked]
1F03 4car 158 [As Booked]
1F05 2car 158 [booked 2x158 so will be 2 vice 4]
1F07 3car 166 [3 vice 5 - booked 165/2 & 166]
1F09 4car (currently showing as a 165+158), but they can't couple [booked 2x158 so will be 2 vice 4]
11F1 3car 166 [As Booked]
1F13 5car 165 (2car 165 and 3car 165) [Booked 5 but running with the 165/3 vice a 166]
1F15 3car 165 [booked 2x 158 so will be 3 vice 4]
1F17 3car 166 (repeats from here, same set as 1F01) [As Booked -same diagram as 1F01]
1F19 4car 158 [As Booked - same diagrams as 1F03]
1F21 2car 158 [same diagrams as 1F05 - booked 2x158 so will be 2 vice 4]
..............

Just adding the booked formation to your list to show which services are actually 'shortformed'. (Disregarding the last 3 services on the list as they are on the same diagrams as the first three.)

 

[baza585]

Just adding the booked formation to your list to show which services are actually 'shortformed'. (Disregarding the last 3 services on the list as they are on the same diagrams as the first three.)

Thanks for that, very helpful.

3/8 as booked on a Friday is not great, but I don't blame GWR.

So frustrating seeing all the 158/9s sitting in Salisbury sidings as my full & standing 2 car 158 chugs past though. Are they really all needed on WoE services, given the drop off in commuter numbers?

 

[Jim]

1F14 reformed from Bristol TM at 1255

 

[Snow1964]

Just adding the booked formation to your list to show which services are actually 'shortformed'. (Disregarding the last 3 services on the list as they are on the same diagrams as the first three.)

Thank you

In the end appears
1F09 was 2car Cardiff-Westbury, 5car Westbury-Portsmouth
1F15 was no cars (got cancelled)
1F17 only managed Cardiff-Bristol (canx Bristol-Portsmouth)

Both 1F20 and 1F24 Portsmouth-Cardiff were cancelled Portsmouth-Bristol too. So overall rather poor day.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Dec 2023 ==

Saturday 2nd December

The shambols continues
1F05 canx Cardiff-Fratton, running empty as 5F05
1F06 canx Portsmouth-Fratton
1F07 canx Cardiff-Newport
1F10 canx Portsmout-Westbury

Meanwhile some of the local (class 2) trains on the line are being creative, eg 2C09, using a 166 Gloucester-Bristol then set swapping to a 9car IET to Westbury

Realtime Trains | 2C09 1010 Gloucester to Westbury | 02/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 2C09 1010 departure from Gloucester to Westbury on 02/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The shambols continues

You do know there is industrial action today!?

 

[Snow1964]

You do know there is industrial action today!?

Is there, nothing to say so at the local (back) entrance to my local station

Just checked banner headline on GWR website and it says industrial action is Sunday and Thursday, nothing about Today

 

[Towers]

Is there, nothing to say so at the local (back) entrance to my local station

Just checked banner headline on GWR website and it says industrial action is Sunday and Thursday, nothing about Today

Driver overtime strike in force as of y’day, certainly caused its fair share of disruption.

 

[Anonymous10]

Is there, nothing to say so at the local (back) entrance to my local station

Just checked banner headline on GWR website and it says industrial action is Sunday and Thursday, nothing about Today

Having spoken to. Gwr member staff, believe he works in planning earlier this week they indicated that intercity / long distance had staffing issues as a result of the overtime ban. The regional commuter services were not affected.

 

[Towers]

Having spoken to. Gwr member staff, believe he works in planning earlier this week they indicated that intercity / long distance had staffing issues as a result of the overtime ban. The regional commuter services were not affected.

Plenty of locals being cancelled due to crew shortages too.

 

[Anonymous10]

Plenty of locals being cancelled due to crew shortages too.

Ah sorry being from West Wales I don't check gwr regularly, possibly was talking about his "patch" so to speak?

 

[Mike Machin]

Whatever the reasons, breakdowns, DfT funding, industrial disputes, infrastructure problems, staff shortages or whatever - the entire service is an absolute 24 karat, fur-lined, ocean-going shambles.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Whatever the reasons, breakdowns, DfT funding, industrial disputes, infrastructure problems, staff shortages or whatever - the entire service is an absolute 24 karat, fur-lined, ocean-going shambles.

Yes, I was going to say the reason for the many cancellations doesn't really matter, it's the fact that they're being cancelled, and thus the service is a shambles

 

[Jim]

Meanwhile some of the local (class 2) trains on the line are being creative, eg 2C09, using a 166 Gloucester-Bristol then set swapping to a 9car IET to Westbury

Realtime Trains | 2C09 1010 Gloucester to Westbury | 02/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 2C09 1010 departure from Gloucester to Westbury on 02/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

it was better than it blocking a platform at Bristol for hours. Did two round trips in the end.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Is there, nothing to say so at the local (back) entrance to my local station

Just checked banner headline on GWR website and it says industrial action is Sunday and Thursday, nothing about Today

Buy cheap train tickets | Great Western Railway

Buy now and save money with cheap train tickets. With no booking fees you can travel with confidence when travelling with GWR.

www.gwr.com

 

[The exile]

Meanwhile some of the local (class 2) trains on the line are being creative, eg 2C09, using a 166 Gloucester-Bristol then set swapping to a 9car IET to Westbury

Realtime Trains | 2C09 1010 Gloucester to Westbury | 02/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 2C09 1010 departure from Gloucester to Westbury on 02/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Presumably to max out capacity during Bath Xmas market

 

[vicbury]

Just adding the booked formation to your list to show which services are actually 'shortformed'. (Disregarding the last 3 services on the list as they are on the same diagrams as the first three.)

None of these should be booked as 3 cars though should they? It is just massaging of the statistics to "improve" performance when everyone knows they should be five cars to meet the demand on this route.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

None of these should be booked as 3 cars though should they? It is just massaging of the statistics to "improve" performance when everyone knows they should be five cars to meet the demand on this route.

What annoys me is the typical response to this as "yes but that was before they upgraded the line to 2tph instead," when that was only between Bristol and Westbury. Us travelling from Cardiff or Portsmouth/Southampton/Salisbury (and I live at both ends, for home and uni, and use the route at both ends), have to deal with the resulting axing of 5 car services without getting the benefit of the 2tph.

 

[vicbury]

What annoys me is the typical response to this as "yes but that was before they upgraded the line to 2tph instead," when that was only between Bristol and Westbury. Us travelling from Cardiff or Portsmouth/Southampton/Salisbury (and I live at both ends, for home and uni, and use the route at both ends), have to deal with the resulting axing of 5 car services without getting the benefit of the 2tph.

Absolutely, no service between Cardiff and Bristol or between Bristol and the South Coast should be only three cars. I've gone round in circles with GWR before who told me a service was planned to be three cars, to which I pointed out it was usually five cars. Their response was that the planned formations change on a daily basis, which is blatant manipulation of statistics. It can't be recorded as a short formation if you "planned" it to be three cars!

 

[Last Hurrah]

Announced over tannoy during Southampton game today . .

The 17.10pm & 19.10pm trains back to Cardiff have been cancelled

Out of curiosity, how many carriages did the 18.10pm & 20.10pm trains have ?

 

[Jim]

Announced over tannoy during Southampton game today . .

The 17.10pm & 19.10pm trains back to Cardiff have been cancelled

Out of curiosity, how many carriages did the 18.10pm & 20.10pm trains have ?

1710 5 as booked
1810 4 as booked
2010 3 vice 4 cars due to the state the 4 car train was left in following it's southbound working with them on this morning, it was later declared unserviceable.

The 1710 terminated at Bristol, presumably the reason the fans were told it was cancelled.

 

[FGW_DID]

None of these should be booked as 3 cars though should they? It is just massaging of the statistics to "improve" performance when everyone knows they should be five cars to meet the demand on this route.

Absolutely, no service between Cardiff and Bristol or between Bristol and the South Coast should be only three cars. I've gone round in circles with GWR before who told me a service was planned to be three cars, to which I pointed out it was usually five cars. Their response was that the planned formations change on a daily basis, which is blatant manipulation of statistics. It can't be recorded as a short formation if you "planned" it to be three cars!

As booked as per the traction diagrams so yes those particular services are planned as 3 cars and not a “daily amendment”.

 

[Southerntravel]

1810 ONLY MADE IT AS FAR AS NEWPORT....

 

[Clarence Yard]

Absolutely, no service between Cardiff and Bristol or between Bristol and the South Coast should be only three cars. I've gone round in circles with GWR before who told me a service was planned to be three cars, to which I pointed out it was usually five cars. Their response was that the planned formations change on a daily basis, which is blatant manipulation of statistics. It can't be recorded as a short formation if you "planned" it to be three cars!

No, that’s not how it works.

Each Operator that has an NRC with the DfT has to compile a “Train Formation Capacity Plan” (TFCP) for each timetable period (i.e. every six months) that the DfT has to sign off. This is what the DfT measures short form performance against, not the daily variations, although there are some get outs when it isn’t GWR’s responsibility.

Each TFCP has to state the individual train by departure time, the formation by class, the seating capacity and the average demand.

In the case of the Portsmouth-Cardiff it’s not all 5 cars - the current TFCP (which isn’t a public document) has a mix of 3, 4 and 5. If you look at the NRC, you can see how the DfT expect excess demand to be dealt with, as well as what they should do if the fleet is changed (by the DfT) so that they can no longer meet demand. These are standard conditions in every NRC.

The poor performance in the last couple of days has been almost entirely due to the current dispute. Bristol based local workings have been badly hit and we can expect this to continue throughout this coming week.

To be fair to GWR, I crossed the country today using three different operators and I had a very tense time because all three journeys had dispute related delays or cancellations. Looking at RTT regularly told me more about what I should do than any advice from the operators concerned, who were obviously struggling. It has been that chaotic out there today.

 

[Snow1964]

No, that’s not how it works.

Each Operator that has an NRC with the DfT has to compile a “Train Formation Capacity Plan” (TFCP) for each timetable period (i.e. every six months) that the DfT has to sign off. This is what the DfT measures short form performance against, not the daily variations, although there are some get outs when it isn’t GWR’s responsibility.

Each TFCP has to state the individual train by departure time, the formation by class, the seating capacity and the average demand.

In the case of the Portsmouth-Cardiff it’s not all 5 cars - the current TFCP (which isn’t a public document) has a mix of 3, 4 and 5.

However a document that is public, shows that GWR failed to meet even the absolute minimum spec requirement of DfT

The route is listed as EF13, and was 7.62% below booked seats and 0.54% below minimum specified. There were 3078 services short formed vs booked in first 7 periods of this year. The worst is route EF10 (Bristol suburban) with staggering 5104 short forms in 7 periods.

So basically about 500 services per month on route EF13 (routes to south coast) are short formed, and nearer 800 per month on EF10 (Bristol suburban)

The link also shows shortage vs booked seats, and EF10 and EF13 were short over 700,000 in 7 periods, 100,000 every 4 weeks, which is about 4000 seats per day, booked but not operated.

https://d3cez36w5wymxj.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/28144203/Mark-Hopwood-CBE-from-GWR-letter-to-Transport-Focus.pdf

 

[Dan G]

1710 5 as booked
1810 4 as booked
2010 3 vice 4 cars due to the state the 4 car train was left in following it's southbound working with them on this morning, it was later declared unserviceable.

The 1710 terminated at Bristol, presumably the reason the fans were told it was cancelled.

Football fans trashed it?

 

[JohnRegular]

I happened to see the 1810 departure from Southampton yesterday; despite the luxury of four carriages, the train left full and standing with many unable to board.

Others advised to go via Reading on the XC an hour later (1815 Manchester cancelled). That would be quite the adventure especially given the services passengers would be connecting onto were also quite late.

I suspect the occasional passenger wouldn't be too keen to catch a train next time an alternative is available after that experience.

 

[Dai Corner]

The route is listed as EF13, and was 7.62% below booked seats and 0.54% below minimum specified.

So GWR could say that they aimed to provide over 7% more than the number of seats they are required (and funded) to on these routes and actually provided 99.46% . Some of the shortfall will have been due to external factors. It doesn't look too bad if you look at it that way?