Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates

[JW4]

Would have confused the London Commuters to see West Midlands route diagrams in the carriages. Although the train was in WMR livery just a quick glance on Jen's video showed the LNR name decal on the side of the train right at the end.

They have both LNR and WMR route diagrams

 

[norbitonflyer]

From December that service is cut, only running Crewe to Stafford via Stoke.

Thereby withdawing a service over a passenger line (Wolverhapton to Tame Bridge direct). Are they allowed to do that? (I am aware, having done it, that some sleeper services go via the Stour valley, but they bypass Wolverhampton station)

 

[JW4]

WMR and LNR

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2023 ==

Perhaps someone who travelled on one can comment please on the speed of door operation? There's such a contrast between 323s on the Cross City line and 350s on LNwR - a few seconds after stopping on the former and perhaps a minute on the latter.

quite quick to open

 

[norbitonflyer]

Does anyone know if the 730s have bells like on the Electrostar trains?

The guard impersonates one when announcing the station after Berkhamstead -

 

[Peter Sarf]

The guard impersonates one when announcing the station after Berkhamstead -

Boom boom !.

I mean terrr-ing, don't I ?.

 

[Wyrleybart]

From December that service is cut, only running Crewe to Stafford via Stoke.

Interesting. So what is planned to stop at Darlaston then ?

 

[JW4]

Interesting. So what is planned to stop at Darlaston then ?

Wolverhampton-Walsall via Willenhall

 

[Wyrleybart]

Wolverhampton-Walsall via Willenhall

Ah OK. Local trains for local people then !!!

 

[Silverlinky]

Thanks for the response, that's interesting.
If the operation takes longer than the 350s then it must be even longer than the 323s. I wonder whether this will affect punctuality on the routes they are intended for, bearing in mind the frequency of stops - at present, station calls are made smartly.

From reports from this morning the door opening and closing process (which is as described on post 1316) takes a fair bit longer than a 350, however the superior acceleration of the train made up that lost 30 secs/1 minute between stops on the WCML. On a route where more frequent stops are made such as the cross city the benefit of that acceleration might not be able to be achieved (shorter times between stations and a lower permitted line speed)

 

[Kite159]

I suspect a full length trip on the Cross City would be that?



Same actual seats but with armrests and spacers.

I swear I read somewhere that the seats being fitted to the /2s are going to be a couple of inches wider than what is fitted to the /0s. As well as having arm-rests (and no doubt a pointless fixed armrest by the window which is useful only to a kid)

Thereby withdawing a service over a passenger line (Wolverhapton to Tame Bridge direct). Are they allowed to do that? (I am aware, having done it, that some sleeper services go via the Stour valley, but they bypass Wolverhampton station)

IIRC it's going back to what it was before the Crewe - Birmingham via Stoke got sent that way, a couple trains a day, although nothing calling at Tame Bridge. Maybe the cut to Stafford is just temporary due to staff/unit availability

 

[pokemonsuper9]

however the superior acceleration of the train made up that lost 30 secs/1 minute between stops on the WCML

Could the train have been slowed down by not being able to go above 90 (being a /0 instead of a /2)? And if so, would a /2 save time compared to the current timetable?

On a route where more frequent stops are made such as the cross city the benefit of that acceleration might not be able to be achieved (shorter times between stations and a lower permitted line speed)

Surely that'd make an acceleration benefit be more important?

 

[FOH]

From reports from this morning the door opening and closing process (which is as described on post 1316) takes a fair bit longer than a 350, however the superior acceleration of the train made up that lost 30 secs/1 minute between stops on the WCML. On a route where more frequent stops are made such as the cross city the benefit of that acceleration might not be able to be achieved (shorter times between stations and a lower permitted line speed)

Probably not worth reading too much into first day timings I wouldn't have thought. Crews inevitably take a while to get used to things unitl the subconscious rather than conscious brain kicks in.

 

[Silverlinky]

Could the train have been slowed down by not being able to go above 90 (being a /0 instead of a /2)? And if so, would a /2 save time compared to the current timetable?

Surely that'd make an acceleration benefit be more important?

On a stopper on the WCML 90mph is more than enough, in fact you can't reach that between some stations anyway, thinking Hemel-Apsley-Kings Langley, lower permitted speeds around Watford, Wembley, and 75mph from Willesden to Euston.

With the acceleration, I thought the 323's were a bit nippy anyway, therefore the 730 v 323 benefit might be less than the 730 v 350 benefit.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Seen on a video that 730s are due to be introduced on stafford to crewe via stoke service ?

Can anyone verify this?

If they do, they will be the LNR ones as only Crewe sign than route. Therefore I'd say unlikely, given they will predominantly be from Trent work

 

[birchesgreen]

I didn't realise they'll have a lot fewer seats than the trains they are intended to replace, what a stupid idea.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Interesting. So what is planned to stop at Darlaston then ?

And the Shrewsbury service should be being routed via Heath Town from Wolves. Unsure if the Tame Bridge stop will be added

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2023 ==

From reports from this morning the door opening and closing process (which is as described on post 1316) takes a fair bit longer than a 350, however the superior acceleration of the train made up that lost 30 secs/1 minute between stops on the WCML. On a route where more frequent stops are made such as the cross city the benefit of that acceleration might not be able to be achieved (shorter times between stations and a lower permitted line speed)

It's also day 1 of passenger operations, staff are likely to be taking time with managers sure to be around

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2023 ==

IIRC it's going back to what it was before the Crewe - Birmingham via Stoke got sent that way, a couple trains a day, although nothing calling at Tame Bridge. Maybe the cut to Stafford is just temporary due to staff/unit availability

It may be to allow the 2nd Liverpool to return without adding an extra path on the Stour

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I didn't realise they'll have a lot fewer seats than the trains they are intended to replace, what a stupid idea.

It really isn't when they're to be used on turn-up-and-go-frequency Metro style services of no more than an hour in the country's second largest city. Cross City line, their primary use, is often rammed full and standing in peaks, and these will allow far more standing room than the incumbent 323s.

 

[birchesgreen]

It really isn't when they're to be used on turn-up-and-go-frequency Metro style services of no more than an hour in the country's second largest city. Cross City line, their primary use, is often rammed full and standing in peaks, and these will allow far more standing room than the incumbent 323s.

Yes there will be more standing as there will be less seats.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yes there will be more standing as there will be less seats.

Many of those standees will be glad they're standing on the train, and not on the platform waiting for the next one due to being unable to get on as they would currently 8 car 319s had far more seats than an 8 car 700, yet the latter eats up about double the passengers in the Thameslink core

 

[GWVillager]

I didn't realise they'll have a lot fewer seats than the trains they are intended to replace, what a stupid idea.

Not really. As TT-ONR says, they’ll primarily be operating “metro” services, where standing space is far more important, making the 730s’ higher overall capacity welcome.

It’s also worth noting that the 48 730/0s are replacing 26 323s, so, even with the extra duties, more trains can be run as doubles, and frequency can (theoretically) increase.

 

[boxerdog]

On a stopper on the WCML 90mph is more than enough, in fact you can't reach that between some stations anyway, thinking Hemel-Apsley-Kings Langley, lower permitted speeds around Watford, Wembley, and 75mph from Willesden to Euston.

With the acceleration, I thought the 323's were a bit nippy anyway, therefore the 730 v 323 benefit might be less than the 730 v 350 benefit.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe where a 323 reaches 60mph a 730 is doing something like 72mph.

 

[Liam L]

Many of those standees will be glad they're standing on the train, and not on the platform waiting for the next one due to being unable to get on as they would currently

That only really happens if there a 3 car about on the cross city, which they seem to be creeping back in since the first set disappeared off to northern. There was two 3 cars in a row the other day

I commuted on the 323s for a few years, I will miss them. But what I've seen today the replacement looks great.

 

[birchesgreen]

Not really. As TT-ONR says, they’ll primarily be operating “metro” services, where standing space is far more important, making the 730s’ higher overall capacity welcome.

It’s also worth noting that the 48 730/0s are replacing 26 323s, so, even with the extra duties, more trains can be run as doubles, and frequency can (theoretically) increase.

Yeah i know what services they'll operate on, my local line is the cross city. I still think less seats will not be a popular move for my fellow pax. But hopefully they'll double them up so it won't be that much an issue most of the time...

 

[Energy]

Yeah i know what services they'll operate on, my local line is the cross city. I still think less seats will not be a popular move for my fellow pax. But hopefully they'll double them up so it won't be that much an issue most of the time...

6 cars throughout was the promise, they've got plenty of 3 car units now.

Supposidly they didn't go from fixed formation 6 car units was due to the depot not being able to handle units of that length well without significant works.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Apologies to bring this up again, but just to clarify

2tph Euston - Tring semi
2tph Euston - MKC stopper
1tph Euston - Crewe fast
Birmingham - Liverpools
all planned eventually 730/2

with 2tph Euston - Birmingham and the St Albans shuttle left for the 50x 350s?

That sounds like too much usage for the 36x 730s and not enough for the 350s, so what's incorrect there?

 

[AJDesiro]

6 cars throughout was the promise, they've got plenty of 3 car units now.

Supposidly they didn't go from fixed formation 6 car units was due to the depot not being able to handle units of that length well without significant works.

6 cars is also too long for the Chase line and Walsall-Wolves services.

Apologies to bring this up again, but just to clarify

2tph Euston - Tring semi
2tph Euston - MKC stopper
1tph Euston - Crewe fast
Birmingham - Liverpools
all planned eventually 730/2

with 2tph Euston - Birmingham and the St Albans shuttle left for the 50x 350s?

That sounds like too much usage for the 36x 730s and not enough for the 350s, so what's incorrect there?

Ironically this amounts to precisely 36 diagrams if my analysis of the timetable is correct, I have a hunch that we may see certain services still run as 350s. WMT seem to be placing an emphasis on the 730/2s being "long distance" units, so maybe we might see the interworked Tring/MK stoppers run as partial or full 350, with 730s supplementing at peak times? There'll definitely be some 350s on at least one of those routes.

 

[jhy44]

Jens video on class 730 first one in service

Oh no they have the same awful clinical-esque very bright and very cold/blue spectrum lighting (that triggers migraines in a lot of sufferers like me ) as the Class 196s.
Effectively will mean there are no trains from my local station I can ride on anymore once roll out is complete. Nightmare.

 

[GWVillager]

6 cars is also too long for the Chase line and Walsall-Wolves services.

So capacity on those will decrease from 4 car 350s, then?

Oh no they have the same awful clinical-esque very bright and very cold/blue spectrum lighting (that triggers migraines in a lot of sufferers like me ) as the Class 196s.
Effectively will mean there are no trains from my local station I can ride on anymore once roll out is complete. Nightmare.

I honestly don’t think it’s too bad. The lighting is warmer and more subtle on both the 196s and 730s than most new trains, with the likes of the 800s, 700s etc. being truly unsettling.

 

[Railperf]

Don't quote me on this, but I believe where a 323 reaches 60mph a 730 is doing something like 72mph.

IF the brakes are as giod as the 720's, there will be more confidence using them too.

 

[Energy]

Ironically this amounts to precisely 36 diagrams if my analysis of the timetable is correct, I have a hunch that we may see certain services still run as 350s. WMT seem to be placing an emphasis on the 730/2s being "long distance" units, so maybe we might see the interworked Tring/MK stoppers run as partial or full 350, with 730s supplementing at peak times? There'll definitely be some 350s on at least one of those routes.

The LNWR ones are based at Bletchley so keeping them on MKC/Tring makes sense. The 350/2s were originally ordered for these routes (explains the 3+2 seating) and 37 350/2s to 36 730s isn't a coincidence.

LNWR unsuprisingly want their new trains on their longest (IMO their flagship) route, do London to Crewe gets mentioned though I'm doubtful it will get much 730 operation.