CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Jez]

Probably not as nice as 175s/158s/Mark 4's but they're far better than the 150s/153s which have become commonplace.

Id put them as far better than any Sprinter including a 158! Undecided if I prefer them to a 175. Last time i rode a 175 straight after the 197 I found myself preferring the 175.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Sep 2023 ==

Over-running works, boo I had looked forward to a journey heading north out of Hereford tomorrow, oh well I can happily go elsewhere instead.

One hopes the 197 will still work to Swansea, and simply terminate in Hereford instead. I'll be away doing something else, as like @Jez I cannot stomach the idea of a 2 hour rail replacement bus in both directions. Not in the same day, no thank you!

A few weeks ago i was planning a day trip to Manchester for this Saturday but decided against it when i saw the engineering works were ending a few days before and could overrun. I will go in October now instead.

As for the Swansea service, like Luke said it is meant to come down form the North that morning so i doubt it will happen now unless they have a spare set in Canton not needed for training. I will keep an eye on RTT anyway just incase. But hopefully better luck next week.

 

[Anonymous10]

The 197 forming that though comes from the North in the morning.

Ah that'd put pay to it unless they use the unit that was left at canton (there was an extra that stayed prior to the block)

 

[childwallblues]

197044 is on the Chester to Liverpool Lime Street service today. I think it is its first time on this service.

 

[Jez]

Ah that'd put pay to it unless they use the unit that was left at canton (there was an extra that stayed prior to the block)

Looks like the 1312 CDF-SWA is being formed of a pair of 153s according to RTT so a bit longer to wait for the 197's to run to Swansea!

 

[william.martin]

197044 is on the Chester to Liverpool Lime Street service today. I think it is its first time on this service.

No, in fact it was one of the first 197's to enter service and I have had it for haulage multiple times.

 

[sd0733]

Looks like the 1312 CDF-SWA is being formed of a pair of 153s according to RTT so a bit longer to wait for the 197's to run to Swansea!

On paper the 07:56 Cardiff to Swansea and 08:55 return tomorrow are planned to be 197s. Obviously what's where may put pay to that but that's the booked one.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Id put them as far better than any Sprinter including a 158!

Definitely better than a 150 or 153!!

Having taken my first trip on a 197 a few weekends back, from a comfort point of view, I do prefer the 158.
I didn’t find the 197 seats as bad as people make out and this was over a 2 hour journey, but the 158’s are still a bit better. The ride quality was where I found it lacked. At times it was unnoticeably different and other times it was very rough and bumpy with my items hopping their way off the table.
They were designed for welded rail not jointed track and they really suffer when on jointed track. I think as more and more of the network becomes CWR the overall perception of their comfort will improve.
One place where they do shine over 158’s for me is the air conditioning.
Thank gosh we might have a more reliable A/C system than the 158’s.

Overall I do like the 197’s, and sounds like they’re lovely from a drivers point of view !

 

[Jez]

On paper the 07:56 Cardiff to Swansea and 08:55 return tomorrow are planned to be 197s. Obviously what's where may put pay to that but that's the booked one.

it was showing as a 158 on RTT earlier now it appears a Northern 150 is actually working it To be fair that is probabaly the worst thing they could have subbed it for - worse than the TFW 150s, 153s and definately worse than a 158!

 

[sd0733]

it was showing as a 158 on RTT earlier now it appears a Northern 150 is actually working it To be fair that is probabaly the worst thing they could have subbed it for - worse than the TFW 150s, 153s and definately worse than a 158!

Until the bit between Hereford and Shrewsbury is handed back diagrams are all over the place.
Definitely a come down to the Northern 150 though!
Maybe tomorrow will see a 197!

Edit:

Tomorrow (Sundays) 197 booked to Swansea!

4 Car-
09:30 Crewe to Manchester Pic
10:30 Manchester Pic to Swansea
15:33 Swansea to Cardiff C

4 Car-
14:51 Cardiff C to Swansea
16:29 Swansea to Manchester Pic
21:35 Manchester Pic to Crewe

4 Car-
12:12 Cardiff C to Manchester P
16:30 Manchester P to Swansea
Ecs to Canton

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Sep 2023 ==

Obviously as always there may be swaps on the day, especially with the chaos of the last few days. Hopefully at least one can make it though!!

 

[Jez]

Until the bit between Hereford and Shrewsbury is handed back diagrams are all over the place.
Definitely a come down to the Northern 150 though!
Maybe tomorrow will see a 197!

Edit:

Tomorrow (Sundays) 197 booked to Swansea!

4 Car-
09:30 Crewe to Manchester Pic
10:30 Manchester Pic to Swansea
15:33 Swansea to Cardiff C

4 Car-
14:51 Cardiff C to Swansea
16:29 Swansea to Manchester Pic
21:35 Manchester Pic to Crewe

4 Car-
12:12 Cardiff C to Manchester P
16:30 Manchester P to Swansea
Ecs to Canton

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Sep 2023 ==

Obviously as always there may be swaps on the day, especially with the chaos of the last few days. Hopefully at least one can make it though!!

Thank you for the info. Hopefully 3rd time lucky!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

197002/047 booked on 10:30 Man Picc - Swansea
Wouldn’t surprise me if they’re tiresome and swap it at Cardiff though

And when will the full route be cleared? It’s difficult to praise TfW when they’ve let the full fleet of 175/0s go without their replacements being able to work the entirety of the route.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

197002/047 booked on 10:30 Man Picc - Swansea
Wouldn’t surprise me if they’re tiresome and swap it at Cardiff though

And when will the full route be cleared? It’s difficult to praise TfW when they’ve let the full fleet of 175/0s go without their replacements being able to work the entirety of the route.

Those two units are showing only running Man Picc to Shrewsbury for some reason... no onward replacement yet. Potentially crewing issue?

 

[Western 52]

Those two units are showing only running Man Picc to Shrewsbury for some reason... no onward replacement yet. Potentially crewing issue?

Same units shown for 1330 Manchester to Swansea throughout at the moment, so they presumably return from Shrewsbury to Manchester off the 1030?

 

[Dai Corner]

Same units shown for 1330 Manchester to Swansea throughout at the moment, so they presumably return from Shrewsbury to Manchester off the 1030?

TfW Journeycheck says

10:30 Manchester Piccadilly to Swansea due 15:07 will be terminated at Shrewsbury.
It will no longer call at Ludlow, Leominster, Hereford, Abergavenny, Pontypool And New Inn, Cwmbran, Newport South Wales, Cardiff Central, Bridgend, Pyle, Port Talbot Parkway, Neath and Swansea.
This is due to Signal Box closure due to staff availability.
Additional Information
Stand by buses at Shrewsbury, Hereford and Cardiff.

 

[sd0733]

Should be going through as planned again on 10:30 now. Box back open.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

From Modern Railways (Oct, p71), it seems the hourly Chester-Liverpool service will be back in December.
However, the extensions to Llandudno and Shrewsbury are on the back burner, because of infrastructure work needed for increased frequencies on those routes.
It's mostly to do with level crossing risks, but some extra signalling is also needed at Gobowen for the Shrewsbury service.
All of this is down to Network Rail but is currently unfunded, so the TfW service uplift will not be happening.

 

[sd0733]

Should be going through as planned again on 10:30 now. Box back open.

The other 2 diagrams now 150+153 substituting so as long as the 10:30 makes it through that will likely be the only one going today.

 

[robrymond]

I rode a 197 on Thursday for the 10 minute ride from Nantwich to Crewe. Was nice to see so many people commenting on the new train and the space. Was offered snacks or a drink which was a nice surprise.

Getting on the Avanti Voyager which had come from Holyhead after was a big downgrade. No working WiFi, no USB sockets, dark and dingy and cramped.

 

[Techniquest]

197047+197002 leaving Leominster almost bang on time, I type this live as the train leaves Rather warm in 131002, and it's away almost 2 minutes late.

@Jez The 197s are coming! Enjoy them if you're still able to make it!

 

[Western 52]

197047+197002 leaving Leominster almost bang on time, I type this live as the train leaves Rather warm in 131002, and it's away almost 2 minutes late.

@Jez The 197s are coming! Enjoy them if you're still able to make it!

Do we know if it's definitely through to Swansea? RTT shows it is but could still be swapped in Cardiff! I'm planning to get on the 1533 off Swansea if it produces.

 

[sd0733]

Do we know if it's definitely through to Swansea? RTT shows it is but could still be swapped in Cardiff! I'm planning to get on the 1533 off Swansea if it produces.

Still showing on the internal systems as going through. It's a booked 197 diagram so unless something goes wrong it should make it!

 

[Western 52]

Still showing on the internal systems as going through. It's a booked 197 diagram so unless something goes wrong it should make it!

Sounds like good news!

 

[Techniquest]

Do we know if it's definitely through to Swansea? RTT shows it is but could still be swapped in Cardiff! I'm planning to get on the 1533 off Swansea if it produces.

It was on the screens at Leominster as going all the way, on the train the same and the external displays agreed. At Hereford, where I got off, it was still planned to go through so hopefully it does for everyone wanting it

I was tempted, I'm not going to lie, at booking some last minute tickets to Cardiff then Swansea just to sample a 197 west of Cardiff! However my limited funds are to be better spent!

 

[Jez]

197047+197002 leaving Leominster almost bang on time, I type this live as the train leaves Rather warm in 131002, and it's away almost 2 minutes late.

@Jez The 197s are coming! Enjoy them if you're still able to make it!

Pleased to report it is a pair of 197s! I've just got on at Neath. At last!!

 

[krus_aragon]

From Modern Railway (Oct, p71), it seems the hourly Chester-Liverpool service will be back in December.
However, the extensions to Llandudno and Shrewsbury are on the back burner, because of infrastructure work needed for increased frequencies on those routes.
It's mostly to do with level crossing risks, but some extra signalling is also needed at Gobowen for the Shrewsbury service.
All of this is down to Network Rail but is currently unfunded, so the TfW service uplift will not be happening.

Is there any detail on the infrastructure work needed for the Llandudno portion? The only level crossings on the North Wales Coast are in Deganwy (unless you go as far as Anglesey), but there are already 197s operating there on Llandudno-Manchester services. Per the original plan, those would become Bangor-Manchester services, so there wouldn't be any change in traffic at those level crossings.

That would seem to leave issues with running 3tph (plus London services) between Chester and Junction, or 2tph between Junction and Bangor, as areas of possible concern.

Or is there work required to accommodate the 197s reversing at Bangor, perhaps? (Though Voyagers were reversing once a day at Bangor until recently...)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is there any detail on the infrastructure work needed for the Llandudno portion? The only level crossings on the North Wales Coast are in Deganwy (unless you go as far as Anglesey), but there are already 197s operating there on Llandudno-Manchester services. Per the original plan, those would become Bangor-Manchester services, so there wouldn't be any change in traffic at those level crossings.
That would seem to leave issues with running 3tph (plus London services) between Chester and Junction, or 2tph between Junction and Bangor, as areas of possible concern.
Or is there work required to accommodate the 197s reversing at Bangor, perhaps? (Though Voyagers were reversing once a day at Bangor until recently...)

It's apparently due to the open crossings on the stretch between Rhyl and Abergele, where they have had incidents in the past with people crossing the line from the adjacent caravan parks to reach the sea wall.
I imagine they have to upgrade the crossings to pass the risk assessment, and a new pedestrian bridge was mentioned.
I think there's a similar crossing on the Shrewsbury line, and 3 extra signals are needed at Gobowen to shorten the long headways for 2tph.

 

[L401CJF]

Is there any detail on the infrastructure work needed for the Llandudno portion? The only level crossings on the North Wales Coast are in Deganwy (unless you go as far as Anglesey), but there are already 197s operating there on Llandudno-Manchester services. Per the original plan, those would become Bangor-Manchester services, so there wouldn't be any change in traffic at those level crossings.

That would seem to leave issues with running 3tph (plus London services) between Chester and Junction, or 2tph between Junction and Bangor, as areas of possible concern.

Or is there work required to accommodate the 197s reversing at Bangor, perhaps? (Though Voyagers were reversing once a day at Bangor until recently...)

197s have been reversing at Bangor already, there is (was?) a Bangor only journey on a Saturday afternoon that's booked 197, shunts out and back in. I've worked it a couple of times.

 

[Jez]

Pleased I made the very first journey Cardiff and Swansea ( i rode it Neath to Swansea and back). Quite a few passengers commented on the new train. i noticed on departure from Swansea the automated annoucements were not in sync between the 2 sets and it was slightly ahead in the front set (002) to the rear (047) on departure from Swansea. Info screens also said the delay from Cardiff with due to resource availability and waiting for train crew. But im just glad they have finally started to Swansea

What is being booked 197 on Monday to Saturday to Swansea now the line has fully reopened?

 

[sd0733]

Pleased I made the very first journey Cardiff and Swansea ( i rode it Neath to Swansea and back). Quite a few passengers commented on the new train. i noticed on departure from Swansea the automated annoucements were not in sync between the 2 sets and it was slightly ahead in the front set (002) to the rear (047) on departure from Swansea. Info screens also said the delay from Cardiff with due to resource availability and waiting for train crew. But im just glad they have finally started to Swansea

What is being booked 197 on Monday to Saturday to Swansea now the line has fully reopened?

They're always slightly out of sync, even between coaches they are too!

M-Th diagrams for next week that include Swansea (they'll likely change for Friday when the full North South service restarts)

2 car:
07:45 Cardiff to Swansea
08:54 Swansea to Cardiff
10:49 Cardiff to Swansea
11:55 Swansea to Cardiff
13:54 Cardiff to Swansea
14:49 Swansea to Cardiff
18:25 Cardiff to Manchester
22:32 Manchester to Shrewsbury

10:06 Cardiff to Swansea
11:01 Swansea to Cardiff
13:12 Cardiff to Swansea (4 car)
15:05 Swansea to Manchester (4 car)
20:30 Manchester to Cardiff (4 car)

05:33 Cardiff to Manchester
09:30 Manchester to Swansea
14:00 Swansea to Cardiff
15:49 Cardiff to Swansea
16:53 Swansea to Cardiff

05:33 Holyhead to Shrewsbury
08:44 Shrewsbury to Cardiff (4 car)
13:12 Cardiff to Swansea (4 car)
15:05 Swansea to Manchester (4 car)
20:30 Manchester to Cardiff (4 car)

4 car all day:
07:17 Cardiff to Manchester
11:30 Manchester to Swansea
16:01 Swansea to Cardiff
17:37 Cardiff to Manchester
21:30 Manchester to Shrewsbury

 

[Techniquest]

Pleased to report it is a pair of 197s! I've just got on at Neath. At last!!

Excellent, glad to hear you made it