Autumn refresh for GWR Class 165/166 Turbos

[HamworthyGoods]

Totally agree, but having booked formations that they can't achieve multiple times a week, suggests need to review what is booked, if can't add to the stock.

So you’d sooner it was booked for 2 car 158s as they can’t always achieve the 4 car formations? Surely it’s better to try and deliver the longer formation and sometimes fall short?

The whole purpose of the 4car workings was supposed to be to avoid short formations, it has clearly failed in that objective.

I don’t know who told you this but the purpose of the 4 car workings was nothing of the sort, it was to meet the request of the DfT to deliver the Metro West enhancements without additional rolling stock.

 

[Snow1964]

I don’t know who told you this but the purpose of the 4 car workings was nothing of the sort, it was to meet the request of the DfT to deliver the Metro West enhancements without additional rolling stock.

It actually came from a letter my local MP forwarded from the rail minister Huw Merriman. This is part of the letter.

Great Western Railway (GWR) invariably plans to offer five-car services, made up of a two-car unit and a three-car unit, on the Portsmouth to Cardiff route, and it always does its best to send the full scheduled number of carriages. To help reduce the number of short formations, GWR has recently confirmed plans to bring four-car Class 158 trains onto the Portsmouth to Cardiff route from the May 2023 timetable change. I am sure that you and your constituents will join me in welcoming this move from GWR.

So either right hand doesn't know what left hand is doing, or DfT are clearly saying one thing to the minister, and GWR are being told different facts.

I don't think it is right to publish the full letter on a public forum.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Paths are in for 18th:

5Q81 0633 Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh

5Q70 1409 St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh to Wolverton Centre Sidings

5Q81 has run today, presumably with 166221.

But 5Q70 has not run today. Another 5Q70 has been loaded for Monday 21/08

Realtime Trains | 5Q70 0700 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Wolverton Centre Sidings | 21/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q70 0700 departure from St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Wolverton Centre Sidings on 21/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[FGW_DID]

5Q81 has run today, presumably with 166221.

But 5Q70 has not run today. Another 5Q70 has been loaded for Monday 21/08

Realtime Trains | 5Q70 0700 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Wolverton Centre Sidings | 21/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q70 0700 departure from St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Wolverton Centre Sidings on 21/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

221 returned.

166202 for the Monday move to Wolverton.

 

[Oli Bashford]

Was spotting 43184+007 at Bristol and wandered into 166221. It seems to have the same bits that haven’t been painted as the earlier turbo, except the bit of door that was unpainted last time is now black not pink. The cab door still has a purple section as well.

 

[Siemens Staines]

I guess 5Q81 will be 166201 to be replaced by 1662xx on 5Q70

Realtime Trains | 5Q81 0633 Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh | 14/09/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q81 0633 departure from Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh on 14/09/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q70 1239 St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh to Wolverton Centre Sidings | 14/09/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q70 1239 departure from St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh to Wolverton Centre Sidings on 14/09/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[adc82140]

It's been a while since I went on a 165, they were blue last time I went on one. But today I had the "pleasure" of 165129. The window units had shot, and were full of condensation, the seat covers ripped, and the floor covering hadn't seen a mop in weeks. I've been on 387s recently, and they are immaculate. What gives?

On the plus side, the journey (Bedwyn-Kintbury) was free. All ticketing facilities at Bedwyn were out of order, and no sign of a guard (is Newbury westwards DOO?)

 

[JN114]

is Newbury westwards DOO?

Yes, Newbury-Bedwyn has been DOO on Turbos pretty much since they were introduced in the early 90s.

 

[fgwrich]

It's been a while since I went on a 165, they were blue last time I went on one. But today I had the "pleasure" of 165129. The window units had shot, and were full of condensation, the seat covers ripped, and the floor covering hadn't seen a mop in weeks. I've been on 387s recently, and they are immaculate. What gives?

On the plus side, the journey (Bedwyn-Kintbury) was free. All ticketing facilities at Bedwyn were out of order, and no sign of a guard (is Newbury westwards

This is the problem with using light colours in heavily used fleets - the turbo fleet was never the most well looked after before the refresh, now the lighter colours shows up the dirt more. For some reason the 387s have always been lavished more - granted, the Turbos are more intensely used but both fleets are maintained by Reading.

 

[Energy]

There was a time where that may been the case, presumably in the form of 4-car 172s, as there was once a plan to procure replacement stock for the route.

(Details)

And a plan for new DMUs for GW, Northern and TPE. These plans got cancelled in favour of electrification, which Grayling then cancelled.

 

[CR165022]

I guess 5Q81 will be 166201 to be replaced by 1662xx on 5Q70

Realtime Trains | 5Q81 0633 Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh | 14/09/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q81 0633 departure from Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh on 14/09/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q70 1239 St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh to Wolverton Centre Sidings | 14/09/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q70 1239 departure from St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh to Wolverton Centre Sidings on 14/09/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

166203 ends in Exeter tonight and 166211 ends in Weymouth, so it will be either 207 or 209 going, neither of which are out today.

Also another quick question, whats happened to 166221? It hasnt been out in over a week now.

 

[FGW_DID]

166203 ends in Exeter tonight and 166211 ends in Weymouth, so it will be either 207 or 209 going, neither of which are out today.

Also another quick question, whats happened to 166221? It hasnt been out in over a week now.

it is supposed to be 166203 next to Wolverton.

221 is stopped for B Exam.

 

[CR165022]

it is supposed to be 166203 next to Wolverton.

221 is stopped for B Exam.

Ah yes, 150243 has now been swapped to 166203 at Exeter on a paignton-bristol service

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2023 ==

I guess 5Q81 will be 166201 to be replaced by 1662xx on 5Q70

Realtime Trains | 5Q81 0633 Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh | 14/09/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q81 0633 departure from Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh on 14/09/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q70 1239 St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh to Wolverton Centre Sidings | 14/09/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q70 1239 departure from St Philips Marsh Depot Fhh to Wolverton Centre Sidings on 14/09/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q81 hasn't run, which I'm assuming means 5Q70 won't either.

 

[Snow1964]

I see this thread has been going over 2 years now

Have noticed some of the earlier "refresh" units are starting to look bit tatty in places again internally, which is rather a shame that the refresh was so light it has ended up not keeping the units looking good through to the summer 2028 lease end date

Still a few 166s in old livery for time being, still with old First Great Western website address on carriage sides as part of the livery.

 

[387star]

166211 is the unit with the long term missing ex first class folding table. I doubt this will be changed as 165101 only has one tiny tray table left in its old first class end despite refurbishment

Many 166s are in a terrible state

 

[Anonymous10]

166211 is the unit with the long term missing ex first class folding table. I doubt this will be changed as 165101 only has one tiny tray table left in its old first class end despite refurbishment

Many 166s are in a terrible state

Certainly they have made me consider going to Portsmouth via Reading.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Certainly they have made me consider going to Portsmouth via Reading.

It’s funny because I live closer to Reading than Portsmouth yet always plump to go via Portsmouth because I always get a seat - often a table to myself if a 158 - and I love the declassified first of a 166 and the more relaxing journey with a more scenic route. Opinions I guess

 

[Anonymous10]

It’s funny because I live closer to Reading than Portsmouth yet always plump to go via Portsmouth because I always get a seat - often a table to myself if a 158 - and I love the declassified first of a 166 and the more relaxing journey with a more scenic route. Opinions I guess

For me coming from west Wales I rarely get a seat on the 16x thats suitable for the journey length, especially with working on the move.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

For me coming from west Wales I rarely get a seat on the 16x thats suitable for the journey length, especially with working on the move.

Interesting, as you would need to change at Central where it starts.
I do Cardiff Fratton every month for uni and wait by the S Car stop for a 158 or just before it for a 166.

 

[Anonymous10]

Interesting, as you would need to change at Central where it starts.
I do Cardiff Fratton every month for uni and wait by the S Car stop for a 158 or just before it for a 166.

Yes I usually can't get in the former 1st class though.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yes I usually can't get in the former 1st class though.

Right, well I’m not sure what the reason for that could be as they haven’t locked it out of use for a year and a half, but sorry to hear it.

 

[CR165022]

I don't know if it's the case on 166215 but on 166221 they've removed the carpet and replaced it with the same flooring that the 165/1s have.

 

[RailWonderer]

166221 they've removed the carpet and replaced it with the same flooring that the 165/1s have.

Are they doing this for all 166s? The carpet made them feel considerably better for long distances (besides the 3+2 seating).

 

[FenMan]

Are they doing this for all 166s? The carpet made them feel considerably better for long distances (besides the 3+2 seating).

Which brings the argument to a full circle. Of course the 166s in 3+2 configuration aren't best suited for longer distance journeys, but they do add significantly more capacity over the more comfortable 158s. Which is similar to the old conundrum, take your pick from capacity, comfort and convenience, but, at best, only two out of the three can be delivered in the current environment.

 

[REVUpminster]

I'd gladly have the 166/165s 2+3 seating down here on the Devon Metro and get rid of the 158s. The 2 car 165s could eventually go into Cornwall and would be an increase in seat capacity. The 3 cars, preferably 165s, I would use on Paignton-Exmouth and Barnstaple-Exeter Central. We are getting too many 2 car 158s and too many 150s out of service.

 

[Siemens Staines]

It looks like another attempt at a Wolverton swap is to be made tomorrow;

5Q81 0633 Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Mrsh H S T D

Realtime Trains | 5Q81 0633 Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Mrsh H S T D | 20/09/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q81 0633 departure from Wolverton Centre Sidings to St Philips Mrsh H S T D on 20/09/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q70 1331 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Wolverton Centre Sidings

Realtime Trains | 5Q70 1331 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Wolverton Centre Sidings | 20/09/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q70 1331 departure from St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Wolverton Centre Sidings on 20/09/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

However, I am not sure whether 5Q81 will still be 166201, which has been at Wolverton since 03/08, or 166202 which has been at Wolverton since 21/08 and would be due to return if the usual 4 weeks for the refresh was being followed?

 

[387star]

I don't know if it's the case on 166215 but on 166221 they've removed the carpet and replaced it with the same flooring that the 165/1s have.

You're sure it wasn't a three car 165* you were on?
I did notice 166215 has the old phone booth carpet removed as well as the carpet removed beneath the tip up seats. The wall carpet in the old first class ends has been replaced by standard trim.

*of note is there are no cycle spaces on three car 165s

 

[CR165022]

5Q81 has not run again.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Sep 2023 ==

You're sure it wasn't a three car 165* you were on?
I did notice 166215 has the old phone booth carpet removed as well as the carpet removed beneath the tip up seats. The wall carpet in the old first class ends has been replaced by standard trim.

*of note is there are no cycle spaces on three car 165s

was definitely 166221
this isnt the best of pictures but you can see the flooring in it

 

[Deepgreen]

It actually came from a letter my local MP forwarded from the rail minister Huw Merriman. This is part of the letter.

So either right hand doesn't know what left hand is doing, or DfT are clearly saying one thing to the minister, and GWR are being told different facts.

I don't think it is right to publish the full letter on a public forum.

I wouldn't place much store in stuff MPs write, swayed as they are by party dictats.

 

[Mike Machin]

The picture above perfectly illustrates why I no longer use the train on Journeys from South Hampshire to Cardiff. Who wants to spend around three hours in such a harsh, noisy rattling and sometimes even fume-filled environment perched on a seat like that? It's utterly disgraceful!