Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[dk1]

How common is it for a 755 to be running with an engine out?

Probably around 40% of the time with a 755/4.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2023 ==

Apologies if this was mentioned before but there was either a 745 or 755 (I'm guessing the latter and I was zooming past on a train so I didn't see the number or car length) in Derby Etches Park on Wednesday. Any idea why it's there?

It’s for tyre turning mate.

 

[cnjb8]

Probably around 40% of the time with a 755/4.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2023 ==



It’s for tyre turning mate.

Thank you

 

[Purple Train]

Diesel engine replacement program is taking place at Clacton depot as has spare capacity.

How long (roughly) might this be going on for? I'm heading up to Clacton in a couple of weeks, and I've only spotted about four or five 755s since they were introduced, so I'm wondering whether I can be lazy and put off the trip to further afield.

 

[dk1]

How long (roughly) might this be going on for? I'm heading up to Clacton in a couple of weeks, and I've only spotted about four or five 755s since they were introduced, so I'm wondering whether I can be lazy and put off the trip to further afield.

They head there randomly and will be going on for many months. Not really sure beyond that.

 

[Purple Train]

They head there randomly and will be going on for many months. Not really sure beyond that.

Thank you

 

[47584Suffolk]

Probably around 40% of the time with a 755/4.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2023 ==



It’s for tyre turning mate.

755327 last week. Another due to go to Derby on Tuesday this week. Also, a 745 to Wembley tomorrow (M.10/7).

 

[dk1]

755327 last week. Another due to go to Derby on Tuesday this week. Also, a 745 to Wembley tomorrow (M.10/7).

On their holidays

 

[rustbucket]

On their holidays

I can think of nicer places to go on their holidays

 

[Class15]

I can think of nicer places to go on their holidays

Nah Wembley is a famous seaside resort.

 

[Alfie1014]

Was on the 16:30 up from Norwich yesterday with a fellow railforum member and it was formed of 755/3+755/4+755/4 (as booked I believe) but the interesting thing was that the middle 755/4 was running on diesel! Never seen a lash up like this with different modes of operation before? Shades of DSB and their IC3 and IR4s.

 

[dk1]

Was on the 16:30 up from Norwich yesterday with a fellow railforum member and it was formed of 755/3+755/4+755/4 (as booked I believe) but the interesting thing was that the middle 755/4 was running on diesel! Never seen a lash up like this with different modes of operation before? Shades of DSB and their IC3 and IR4s.

It would either have pantographs isolated or be less than 80m from the pantograph on the nearest unit. They work that out automatically.

 

[Railperf]

It would either have pantographs isolated or be less than 80m from the pantograph on the nearest unit. They work that out automatically.

Two out of three 755's providing traction power from OLE would match a 745. So why the need for thie diesel other than hotel power for the unit.

 

[dk1]

TTWooutnof three 755's providing traction power from OLE would match a 745. So why the need for thie diesel other than hotel power for the unit.

That would be a question for a tech bod. I just do as I’m told but hotel power sounds feasible.

 

[popeter45]

Was on the 16:30 up from Norwich yesterday with a fellow railforum member and it was formed of 755/3+755/4+755/4 (as booked I believe) but the interesting thing was that the middle 755/4 was running on diesel! Never seen a lash up like this with different modes of operation before? Shades of DSB and their IC3 and IR4s.

Just saw the same kind of formation just pass me at Maryland, is a 745 out of action?

 

[JonathanH]

is a 745 out of action

The use of 755s is because there aren't enough 745s in the first place.

 

[dk1]

Just saw the same kind of formation just pass me at Maryland, is a 745 out of action?

No, two booked daily weekday diagrams are 755s and have been for months now.

 

[Class15]

Just saw the same kind of formation just pass me at Maryland, is a 745 out of action?

Nope, it’s because GA didn’t order enough trains. Simple as that.

 

[306024]

Nope, it’s because GA didn’t order enough trains. Simple as that.

Far more complex than that if you know the full history, which has been well documented in these forums. Certainly not the fault of Greater Anglia the operator.

 

[Class15]

Far more complex than that if you know the full history, which has been well documented in these forums. Certainly not the fault of Greater Anglia the operator.

Fault of the DfT. I wasn’t blaming GA, but DfT gave GA the orders of what trains to get, which were clearly wrong. Too many 720s and 755s, not enough 745s.

 

[JonathanH]

Fault of the DfT. I wasn’t blaming GA, but DfT gave GA the orders of what trains to get, which were clearly wrong. Too many 720s and 755s, not enough 745s.

It isn't that simple either. In a different scenario there may not have been enough 720s or 755s, given when they were ordered, and what has happened since.

 

[Class15]

It isn't that simple either. In a different scenario there may not have been enough 720s or 755s, given when they were ordered, and what has happened since.

The 720s and 755s are understandable as there were supposed to be more people commuting (720s) and service improvements which never happened (755s). In what world did DfT think there would be less than 2tph Norwich IC?

 

[87015]

The 720s and 755s are understandable as there were supposed to be more people commuting (720s) and service improvements which never happened (755s). In what world did DfT think there would be less than 2tph Norwich IC?

What? The choice of 20x745 was from GA bid team. They thought they could get 19 in traffic, Stadler can't deliver that.

 

[43096]

What? The choice of 20x745 was from GA bid team. They thought they could get 19 in traffic, Stadler can't deliver that.

18 in traffic was the plan: nine each of the Norwich and Stansted sets.

 

[dk1]

Fault of the DfT. I wasn’t blaming GA, but DfT gave GA the orders of what trains to get, which were clearly wrong. Too many 720s and 755s, not enough 745s.

When they were ordered it wasn't too many but as already stated things changed dramatically because of the pandemic. That's just one of those things and we now have to suck it up in the best way possible.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jul 2023 ==

Other changes that occurred were the aborted depot at Brantham which resulted in a major setback & several £million lost and lack of progress on upgrading Ely North Jcn & the numerous level crossings across the Fens. Sudbury-Colchester was never going to happen & half hourly all day Yarmouth trains & through East Suffolk to Liverpool Street services have all but been binned. It waits to be seen if the 06:48up/18:10dn peak Norwich/Liverpool St or Ni90 services ever resume.

 

[47421]

The 720s and 755s are understandable as there were supposed to be more people commuting (720s) and service improvements which never happened (755s). In what world did DfT think there would be less than 2tph Norwich IC?

None of GA or DfT or NR thought there would be less than 2TPH. Although the proposed timetables were never published the franchise agreement was based on a speeded up standard Norwich - LivSt time of max 1hr45min, allowing 2TPH to be resourced with 8 745s, per franchise specification set out below.

Why the Franchise Agreement ever specified this is a mystery, and now lost in the mists of time. Clearly there was a significant element of wishful thinking/optimism bias in the bid team. DfT naivety - yep - but understandable that they went with what GA promised. I am curious about NR's role. They must have seen the proposed timetables. Did no one at NR say this is undeliverable? It is a shame because in practice 745s are quicker than mk3s, even with no infrastructure improvements, as acceleration better and station operation quicker. Anyway history now, but until timetable is speeded up not enough 745/0 to resource 2TPH.

 

[306024]

None of GA or DfT or NR thought there would be less than 2TPH. Although the proposed timetables were never published the franchise agreement was based on a speeded up standard Norwich - LivSt time of max 1hr45min, allowing 2TPH to be resourced with 8 745s.
Why the Franchise Agreement ever specified this is a mystery, and now lost in the mists of time. Clearly there was a significant element of wishful thinking/optimism bias in the bid team. DfT naivety - yep - but understandable that they went with what GA promised. I am curious about NR's role. They must have seen the proposed timetables. Did no one at NR say this is undeliverable? It is a shame because in practice 745s are quicker than mk3s, even with no infrastructure improvements, as acceleration better and station operation quicker. Anyway history now, but until timetable is speeded up not enough 745/0 to resource 2TPH.

Good summary. It seems NRs views were either not fully considered or not fully understood. Certainly NR knew much of the bid was undeliverable, and said as much, but it seems the decision makers were blinded by the extravagant promises in the bid.

Were any fully detailed timetables, that included freight, ever produced to support a Norwich service resourced with just 8 diagrams? Without considering freight, especially on the GEML, you might as well not bother.

 

[RailWonderer]

Good summary. It seems NRs views were either not fully considered or not fully understood. Certainly NR knew much of the bid was undeliverable, and said as much, but it seems the decision makers were blinded by the extravagant promises in the bid.

Were any fully detailed timetables, that included freight, ever produced to support a Norwich service resourced with just 8 diagrams? Without considering freight, especially on the GEML, you might as well not bother.

Wishful thinking from the bid team so they could order fewer 745s.

 

[Trainbike46]

We'll have to see how the timetable recast turns out (if one ever happens), but the principal of using the better accelleration of the new stock, to reduce journey times and stock requirements is sound - it's disappointing that no recast has happened so far, but it is good to see that GA is using the stock they have spare to keep the service going - one of the advantages of the 755s being bimodes is their flexibility

 

[Peter Sarf]

We'll have to see how the timetable recast turns out (if one ever happens), but the principal of using the better accelleration of the new stock, to reduce journey times and stock requirements is sound - it's disappointing that no recast has happened so far, but it is good to see that GA is using the stock they have spare to keep the service going - one of the advantages of the 755s being bimodes is their flexibility

Yes. I cannot help thinking that, given the choice, I would go for a surplus of 755s. Because a surplus of 745s would leave some 745s unusable whereas 755s can do both diesel only turns or under the knitting to London.

Now, post pandemic, we need an excuse to use the 745s nearer Norwich so that we can turn Stansted Express over to surplus 720s with more luggage racks. Then all the 745s can become the same - no luggage racks and maybe no 1st class. Liverpool/Norwich does not justify 20 * 745s so perhaps electrify something nearer to Norwich. Thats enough conjecture and/or wishful thinking.

In a nut shell some, at least, of the current situation can be blamed on Covid19.

 

[87015]

In a nut shell some, at least, of the current situation can be blamed on Covid19.

How though? Without Covid those surplus 720s wouldn’t exist (and an excuse to shortform and leave people behind on WA wouldn’t be there) and 745/755 availability would still be unable to meet the diagram requirements. The recast wasn’t delayed by Covid, it simply was never viable unless you delete stoppers and freight from Stratford to Ipswich as put above…