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UK train passengers face loss of free wi-fi

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Pete_uk

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I can't believe that in a western country in 2023 we are having this conversation.

If anything the WiFi should be mandated to work for everyone on board.
 
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bramling

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Not obsolescent, just inappropriate as part of a railway's general commitments. For those wanting a generous data allocation to do their work, they (or their employers if not self-employed) should purchase the correct mobile package to meet their needs. For those who want higher data bandwidth for leisure purposes, they should also make adequate arrangements. Mobile data is both affordable and readily accessible, and there is no justification in expecting other rail customers or the public purse to fund any individual's wishes.

At the end of the day, that’s an opinion. Which to be fair I tend to share, however I can see why some feel wi-fi should be provided. For my part I would prefer the public purse to subsidise wi-fi on trains over certain forms of welfare payments, for example.
 

Krokodil

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That is a ridiculous statement. Foreign tourists don’t have a human right to taxpayers in their host country paying their internet bill so they can upload a photo onto Instagram of a bacon butty they purchased from the buffet.
Not half as ridiculous as your statement. I take it that you've never found yourself lost without an internet connection in an area where no one speaks English. Have some humanity.
 

LUYMun

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As noted above how many people travelling by train really can’t afford a decent data amount these days, though? Especially those who are dependent enough on connectivity for it to be an issue?
Having free WiFi reduces the consumption of allocated amount of data. I was only allowed 1GB of data several years back, so you should find having free WiFi does help.

Mobile data works a hell of a lot better than most on train Wi-Fi! I could watch a movie in 4K on my mobile using 4/5g - no chance of that with Wi-Fi.
Really? Then you certainly haven't been on SWR, where mobile data connectivity is, quite frankly, rubbish. A thickened, moving container of steel does make it harder to have a balanced reach than it does walking in the street.
 

Bertie the bus

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Not half as ridiculous as your statement. I take it that you've never found yourself lost without an internet connection in an area where no one speaks English. Have some humanity.
Have some humanity? Get a grip. How can a foreign tourist find themselves lost on a train? They are on a train, ergo they are not lost.
 

plugwash

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It would be really interesting to have a breakdown of the cost of train wifi. I.E. how much of it is.

1. Cost of buying, maintaining and powering equipment on th trains.
2. Fixed charges from cellular providers.
3. Traffic charges from cellular providers.
4. Charges from bonding/portal providers

etc.
 

tomuk

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Not half as ridiculous as your statement. I take it that you've never found yourself lost without an internet connection in an area where no one speaks English. Have some humanity.
I Must remember to lobby the Welsh Government to improve Wifi on the 197s in North Wales.
 

12LDA28C

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Disabled passengers are a tiny market. Should we stop paying for adaptations so that they can travel? Or do we realise that making transport more accessible (whether to disabled passengers or foreigners) is the right thing to do?

There are regulations in place governing provision for disabled passengers, and rightly so. To my knowledge, the same cannot be said regarding concessions for foreigners.
 

Krokodil

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Have some humanity? Get a grip. How can a foreign tourist find themselves lost on a train? They are on a train, ergo they are not lost.
Plenty of people get lost on trains. I've ended up in the arse end of beyond in Poland, at a station with a similar looking place name to my actual destination - the train times were very close to those in the timetable for my destination too so I didn't twig. Luckily I could phone someone who had internet access because mine had stopped working when it crossed the border from Czechia for some reason. They sorted me out.

I remember a couple of Americans who should have changed at Shrewsbury begin to wonder some time around Cwmbrân what time they would get to Aberystwyth. Not an uncommon occurrence, even among British people.

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There are regulations in place governing provision for disabled passengers, and rightly so. To my knowledge, the same cannot be said regarding making concessions for foreigners.
Plenty of things aren't mandated in regulations. They're still the right thing to do.

Those of you claiming "I don't need WiFi, so no one else should need it either" are wilfully blind to the fact that not everyone's life is perfect.
 

Roast Veg

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If a train has tables that can host a laptop, then it should also have WiFi for that laptop.
 

CaptainHaddock

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Plenty of people get lost on trains. I've ended up in the arse end of beyond in Poland, at a station with a similar looking place name to my actual destination - the train times were very close to those in the timetable for my destination too so I didn't twig. Luckily I could phone someone who had internet access because mine had stopped working when it crossed the border from Czechia for some reason. They sorted me out.

I remember a couple of Americans who should have changed at Shrewsbury begin to wonder some time around Cwmbrân what time they would get to Aberystwyth. Not an uncommon occurrence, even among British people.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


Plenty of things aren't mandated in regulations. They're still the right thing to do.

Those of you claiming "I don't need WiFi, so no one else should need it either" are wilfully blind to the fact that not everyone's life is perfect.
But nobody needs wifi, like many people you're confusing "need" with "want". Let's be honest, from looking at other people's phone and laptop screens on the train, nearly all of them aren't doing anything worthwhile, they're just wasting time watching trashy American TV shows on Netflicks or playing childish games that involve prodding coloured blobs on a screen.

Personally I'd go the other way; not only would I remove wifi from trains, I'd introduce mobile signal blockers so people couldn't use their phones either. Just imagine how much more peaceful and pleasant journeys would be!
 

jon0844

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That is a ridiculous statement. Foreign tourists don’t have a human right to taxpayers in their host country paying their internet bill so they can upload a photo onto Instagram of a bacon butty they purchased from the buffet.

If they can't get online, maybe they won't travel here next time.

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Personally I'd go the other way; not only would I remove wifi from trains, I'd introduce mobile signal blockers so people couldn't use their phones either. Just imagine how much more peaceful and pleasant journeys would be!

Not only highly illegal, but imagine the consequences if there was a medical emergency or an event that required calling 999 - only to have no signal.

Who are we to say that someone can't kill time on a train by watching Netflix or playing a game? In the past, people read books or brought travel games.

Should every passenger, especially those who travel so regularly that their route knowledge might almost match that of the driver, look out the window the whole trip?
 

tomuk

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If they can't get online, maybe they won't travel here next time.

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Not only highly illegal, but imagine the consequences if there was a medical emergency or an event that required calling 999 - only to have no signal.

Who are we to say that someone can't kill time on a train by watching Netflix or playing a game? In the past, people read books or brought travel games.

Should every passenger, especially those who travel so regularly that their route knowledge might almost match that of the driver, look out the window the whole trip?
As said before there is mobile 4G\5G widely available.
 

Benjwri

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But nobody needs wifi, like many people you're confusing "need" with "want". Let's be honest, from looking at other people's phone and laptop screens on the train, nearly all of them aren't doing anything worthwhile, they're just wasting time watching trashy American TV shows on Netflicks or playing childish games that involve prodding coloured blobs on a screen.
Nobody needs comfy seats, clean windows, plugs, tables, the list goes on. Soon you’re left with a square piece of metal with some benches inside. In fact leisure travel outweighs business travel, so most people don’t need to take the train, we might as well be done with them.

Most things in life are wants to some extent. But people are paying to take the train and a level of service is expected.
 

Class 170101

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I wonder if the mobile coverage is up to it along railway lines? I always thought it was said that coverage was better along major roads like the M1, M6, M62 than it is along the major rail lines WCML, ECML, Trans Pennine etc?
 

zwk500

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If the equipment is being fitted for staff use anyway, what is the additional cost to provide the passenger service? It must be so small, and yet add important value. I agree it shouldn't be a priority, but at the same time it's not difficult to do something people do value.
 

jon0844

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As said before there is mobile 4G\5G widely available.

Yes, but not everyone will have roaming. When in the USA, I've been with people who didn't activate roaming and just relied on Wi-Fi because of the cost. Few plans include non-EU roaming (I have it on my legacy EE plan) too - so think of tourists visiting from outside the EU here.

Plus some, not all, roaming agreements are limited to just one operator and if that roaming partner is Telefonica or Hutchison, chances are you'll be trying to use O2 or Three on the train, which can be a very variable experience.

Oh and not all networks offer 5G roaming either.

There are many reasons NOT to use Wi-Fi (I've given many, plus others have regarding security) but also many reasons TO use it. Let people have the choice.
 

Roast Veg

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Worth remembering also that on-train WiFi is fitted with multiple SIM cards, so it may have an internet connection via a network other than your own operator.
 

Krokodil

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But nobody needs wifi, like many people you're confusing "need" with "want". Let's be honest, from looking at other people's phone and laptop screens on the train, nearly all of them aren't doing anything worthwhile, they're just wasting time watching trashy American TV shows on Netflicks or playing childish games that involve prodding coloured blobs on a screen.
Nobody needs windows. Fitting windows to trains adds a considerable cost, particularly once you've considered crashworthiness. Perhaps we should do away with windows. Then we can consider removing all other frills like power sockets, air conditioning, suspension...

Then once we've value-engineered all of the "nice to have" parts of a design, we can see just how many passengers we have left travelling on what amounts to a goods wagon.
Personally I'd go the other way; not only would I remove wifi from trains, I'd introduce mobile signal blockers so people couldn't use their phones either. Just imagine how much more peaceful and pleasant journeys would be!
I'm tempted to agree there, such that they would have to go into the vestibule to make a call. But provide onboard WiFi, just so long as it blocks streaming of videos or music unless headphones are detected.
Not only highly illegal
Depends upon how you accomplish it. On a Pendo or a Voyager you just switch off the signal booster. The train will take care of the rest.
 

jon0844

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Thankfully I don't think any new trains have the film that so effectively kills the signal (at least at certain frequencies) and I assume every manufacturer is trying to ensure the windows don't impact mobile signals.
 

zwk500

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The TOC should supply me with a laptop. Why should I pay for one?
This is a bizarre argument.

The TOC can easily provide wifi if it wishes to for minimal extra cost. It should be up to the individual TOCs to decide whether the service is worth the cost of providing.
 

Davester50

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That is a ridiculous statement. Foreign tourists don’t have a human right to taxpayers in their host country paying their internet bill so they can upload a photo onto Instagram of a bacon butty they purchased from the buffet.
Quite. It's in the nice things to have category.
Should we have it? Yes.
Has it been overtaken by other technology? Yes.
Is it worth spending money to upgrade it? Debatable, which is what this thread is about.
I'd say no, it's not. The audio channels on the Virgin trains didn't last -most people took their own entertainment.
This is a bizarre argument.

The TOC can easily provide wifi if it wishes to for minimal extra cost. It should be up to the individual TOCs to decide whether the service is worth the cost of providing.
It's tongue in cheek.
 

tomuk

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This is a bizarre argument.

The TOC can easily provide wifi if it wishes to for minimal extra cost. It should be up to the individual TOCs to decide whether the service is worth the cost of providing.
Is it minimal extra cost? The bandwidth requirements for the train itself or for onboard crew for say ticket checks etc to pass data back to HQ are tiny compared to that required for multiple data hungry passengers that's not to mention the security\integration issues that may require duplication of equipment for different uses.
 

zwk500

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Is it minimal extra cost? The bandwidth requirements for the train itself or for onboard crew for say ticket checks etc to pass data back to HQ are tiny compared to that required for multiple data hungry passengers that's not to mention the security\integration issues that may require duplication of equipment for different uses.
That's why it should up to individual TOCs whether the additional costs are worth it for their passengers.
 

43066

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My understanding (happy as always to be corrected):

GSM (and GSM-R) are 2G technology - but GSM-R is totally separate to the UK mobile phone networks so shutting them down has no impact.

2G should be phased out in the UK on mobile phone networks by 2033. (But then maybe not as lots of equipment other than actual phones use 2G - and I've read that 5G might actually be able to provide a 2G-compatible signal).

GSM-R if not replaced by something else becomes obsolete technology (and almost certainly harder to get replacement parts for than, say, semaphore signals).


Many thanks both. Good to know the railway uses a system that virtually dates back to semaphores and telegraphs. I wouldn’t expect anything less :).
 

TUC

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Meanwhile, many other businesses provide free wifi as a way of making their customers feel welcomed and so want to use their products. As ever, the railway agonises and makes a meal out of something that is everyday custome service elsewhere.
 

43066

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Meanwhile, many other businesses provide free wifi as a way of making their customers feel welcomed and so want to use their products. As ever, the railway agonises and makes a meal out of something that is everyday custome service elsewhere.

Yawn. It isn’t “the railway” that’s making the decision, is it?!
 

NorthernSpirit

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As daft as it seems, this would cause a lot of upset - I have had passengers get quite angry in the past because the WiFi isn't working - I actually got properly screamed at by a guy in a suit with his laptop because the WiFi wasn't working in his coach and he had work to do. What is the world coming to!
Couldn't angry suit man wait until he had got home and did the work there instead? At least the wifi wouldn't be on the blink, the paperwork and PC wouldn't be knocked by other passengers getting their gear from the overhead rack plus it'd be nice and quiet if they did do it at home unless little Jonny and Jane come screaming in the lounge to see their father.

If it was me, I'd be wanting to relax after a "hard" day in the office (not exactly breaking out in a sweat when sat at a desk doing officey things though) before getting home and cooking myself a ready meal before finishing off any work required. Thankfully I don't work in an office and the free wifi loss on the railways wouldn't at all affect me because I work in a warehouse and any admin stuff is done on site.
 
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