TfL proposes to withdraw Day Travelcards

[Benjwri]

You don't need paper for this. A Travelcard issued on ITSO gives the same benefit.

I’m almost 100% sure those will be disappearing with their paper counterparts.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’m almost 100% sure those will be disappearing with their paper counterparts.

They will, yes.

 

[crablab]

I’m almost 100% sure those will be disappearing with their paper counterparts.

The proposal is only to remove Day Travelcards, not seasons. So ITSO Travelcards are likely to still be around, albeit only as seasons.

 

[Haywain]

Its sometimes a hassle to get your money back like oyster charged a penalty fare from Tottenham Court to Walthamstow although no gateline was passed in between the journey was it classed as touch in a Tott CR but no touch out and no touch in but touch out at Walthamstow all within 44 minutes. Strangely classed as two separate journeys.

The minimum journey time from Tottenham Court Road to Walthamstow Central or Queen's Road (both in zone 3) would be 110 minutes. How you could have achieved two incomplete journeys in that time is a mystery, but evidently you got your money back with only a small amount of hassle.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 May 2023 ==

So ITSO Travelcards are likely to still be around, albeit only as seasons.

They will still be around.

 

[Benjwri]

The proposal is only to remove Day Travelcards, not seasons. So ITSO Travelcards are likely to still be around, albeit only as seasons.

Yes but someone who's currently buying a day travelcard doesn't need a season, so I don't see how having seasons on its is going to help with the withdrawal of day travelcards.

 

[Haywain]

Yes but someone who's currently buying a day travelcard doesn't need a season, so I don't see how having seasons on its is going to help with the withdrawal of day travelcards.

It isn't going to help.

 

[Trainlog]

Its genuinely a shame that they are withdrawing the travelcard as a means of getting around London - the amount of adventures i was lucky to have with it whether i was spotting steam engines, visiting museums, or other reasons with the ticket.

The thing i have disliked is that there has been so much dis encouragement towards the ticket in the past couple of years that has been unnecessary. I stopped buying tickets for London from ticket offices as i keep hearing 'Are you sure you want a 1-6? - insert use card or oyster reason'. i have taken that advice once and i definitely preferred using a 1-6 ticket than fishing out my bankcard from my wallet.

The great thing about the 1-6 was that you had most of the network on one ticket providing you stuck to the 1-6 zones and you can go round unlimited times. I have had some great memories with my dad after seeing a main attraction like a museum and then going to see the main sights of London afterwards - with my mates the ticket allowed for compromise for ideas on what to do and it didn't matter where it was providing it was in the boundaries, there was even the time i came back from the Mid hants with one of my mates and he found out that the Flying Scotsman was coming through on the ECML in a few hours time and we went into Victoria bought a travelcard and went and saw it at Finsbury park station with us 2 being the only people seeing it at the time (roughly 8 30pm).

And it just makes me think, imagine all of the good ideas that might be prevented if the ticket goes - more people will just see one attraction and go home straight away from the capital, large groups of day-trippers might resort to using coaches going into the capital instead of trains which is ironic considering the ULEZ expansion wishing to decrease congestion, and if rail wants to make revenue in an age where more people are working from home and so on - taking away an excuse for easy travel round the capital will deter people from going to London and might just look locally instead for attractions.

Contactless and Oyster might be useful to many if you are commuting up there and only want one destination, but withdrawing the zones 1-6 completely will damage the tourism trade.

 

[jon81uk]

Its genuinely a shame that they are withdrawing the travelcard as a means of getting around London - the amount of adventures i was lucky to have with it whether i was spotting steam engines, visiting museums, or other reasons with the ticket.

The thing i have disliked is that there has been so much dis encouragement towards the ticket in the past couple of years that has been unnecessary. I stopped buying tickets for London from ticket offices as i keep hearing 'Are you sure you want a 1-6? - insert use card or oyster reason'. i have taken that advice once and i definitely preferred using a 1-6 ticket than fishing out my bankcard from my wallet.

The great thing about the 1-6 was that you had most of the network on one ticket providing you stuck to the 1-6 zones and you can go round unlimited times. I have had some great memories with my dad after seeing a main attraction like a museum and then going to see the main sights of London afterwards - with my mates the ticket allowed for compromise for ideas on what to do and it didn't matter where it was providing it was in the boundaries, there was even the time i came back from the Mid hants with one of my mates and he found out that the Flying Scotsman was coming through on the ECML in a few hours time and we went into Victoria bought a travelcard and went and saw it at Finsbury park station with us 2 being the only people seeing it at the time (roughly 8 30pm).

And it just makes me think, imagine all of the good ideas that might be prevented if the ticket goes - more people will just see one attraction and go home straight away from the capital, large groups of day-trippers might resort to using coaches going into the capital instead of trains which is ironic considering the ULEZ expansion wishing to decrease congestion, and if rail wants to make revenue in an age where more people are working from home and so on - taking away an excuse for easy travel round the capital will deter people from going to London and might just look locally instead for attractions.

Contactless and Oyster might be useful to many if you are commuting up there and only want one destination, but withdrawing the zones 1-6 completely will damage the tourism trade.

None of that goes away with Oyster and contactless, you still pay flat capped fare for unlimited travel for a day. The cap is effectivly the same as a travelcard within the zones.

 

[island]

The thing i have disliked is that there has been so much dis encouragement towards the ticket in the past couple of years that has been unnecessary. I stopped buying tickets for London from ticket offices as i keep hearing 'Are you sure you want a 1-6? - insert use card or oyster reason'. i have taken that advice once and i definitely preferred using a 1-6 ticket than fishing out my bankcard from my wallet.

It's for your own benefit. Using contactless or Oyster is cheaper for you the passenger (unless using one of the Railcards that can't discount Oyster).

 

[sor]

It's not trivial for a business with many thousands of employees to suddenly issue all travellers with corporate cards.

My employer refuses to issue corporate cards for infrequent travellers. I am one of them. So when I do travel to that there London, I have to buy a train ticket via whoever we use these days (trainline corporate?) and I've always used my personal contactless card of choice for the intra-London travel, get the invoice from TfL's website, expense that and job done. I'm out of pocket for a few pounds for a few days, but so what.

I've never had the need to buy a travelcard, and they'd probably complain if you did and had no need for it (ie not enough travel to trigger the cap anyway)

 

[Bletchleyite]

My employer refuses to issue corporate cards for infrequent travellers. I am one of them. So when I do travel to that there London, I have to buy a train ticket via whoever we use these days (trainline corporate?) and I've always used my personal contactless card of choice for the intra-London travel, get the invoice from TfL's website, expense that and job done. I'm out of pocket for a few pounds for a few days, but so what.

And if it did bother you, you could take out a credit card and use that, so you'd be reimbursed before the statement was due. That's probably how the vast majority of business travellers do it - very few companies have centrally settled corporate cards.

 

[david1212]

You don't need paper for this. A Travelcard issued on ITSO gives the same benefit.

But Network Rail / National Rail / GBR / 'Whatever you want to call it ...' has not and from all I read has no intention of introducing ITSO across all of the UK rail network. IMO a fundamental major failure but that is for the existing threads.

Even if when open the ticket office at my local station can add a 'name of station' to Zones 1-6 Day Travelcard to an ITSO card already posessed I'm 99% sure the TVM could not, all it cound do is issue a card magnetic stripe ticket. At the first station used within London Zones 1-6 there would have to be a system to transfer the Travelcard part to an ITSO card leaving the magnetic stripe ticket so it would open the barrier on return to the starting station.

I do wonder if ITSO was implemented nationally if TfL would still be making this proposal?

It is fairly inconceivable that the proposal won't go through, particularly with the associated plan to extend availability of Contactless to a wider area under Project Oval.

Of course it will go through. The so called consultation is just a box ticking exercise. Cynical, me?

No not just you.

 

[Ediswan]

And if it did bother you, you could take out a credit card and use that, so you'd be reimbursed before the statement was due. That's probably how the vast majority of business travellers do it - very few companies have centrally settled corporate cards.

Any reference for that, covering the UK ? My last two employers (one small, one large) settled company cards centrally. I was still expected to provide receipts to cover the monthly statements.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Any reference for that, covering the UK ? My last two employers (one small, one large) settled company cards centrally. I was still expected to provide receipts to cover the monthly statements.

Anecdotal. During my 22 year career, I've had one for about 3 years.

 

[Benjwri]

Even if when open the ticket office at my local station can add a 'name of station' to Zones 1-6 Day Travelcard to an ITSO card already posessed I'm 99% sure the TVM could not, all it cound do is issue a card magnetic stripe ticket. At the first station used within London Zones 1-6 there would have to be a system to transfer the Travelcard part to an ITSO card leaving the magnetic stripe ticket so it would open the barrier on return to the starting station.

Its already possible with a number of TOCs apps though…

 

[paul1609]

Its already possible with a number of TOCs apps though…

Southeastern and Southerns tvms have been able to sell outboundary travelcards to the key for some years.

 

[Alex365Dash]

You near enough never see anyone using any kind of paper ticket on London buses.

The One Day Bus and Tram pass was reintroduced soon after buses went cashless but I don't think I've seen anyone use one. Presumably it was reintroduced because of the lack of a reasonably priced alternative for people who didn't want to use Oyster or contactless.

I've never gone out of my way to get one, but isn't a One Day Bus & Tram Pass issued at an Oyster Ticket Stop issued on a green temporary Oyster card anyway?

Image from page 148 of The Big Red Book 5th edition, released from TfL under a Freedom of Information request.

Spoiler: Alt text

Image shows a green (light green main colour, dark green on right side curve) Oyster card with a pencil drawing of a New Routemaster bus with the text "One Day Bus & Tram Pass" under it.

 

[johncrossley]

I've never gone out of my way to get one, but isn't a One Day Bus & Tram Pass issued at an Oyster Ticket Stop issued on a green temporary Oyster card anyway?
View attachment 135430
Image from page 148 of The Big Red Book 5th edition, released from TfL under a Freedom of Information request.

Spoiler: Alt text

Image shows a green (light green main colour, dark green on right side curve) Oyster card with a pencil drawing of a New Routemaster bus with the text "One Day Bus & Tram Pass" under it.

Yes, it's a disposable smartcard, like train tickets in the Netherlands.

On page 154 you can see a magnetic strip ticket version issued from a tube station machine. I believe you can also get them from a National Rail ticket office.

 

[gaillark]

The minimum journey time from Tottenham Court Road to Walthamstow Central or Queen's Road (both in zone 3) would be 110 minutes. How you could have achieved two incomplete journeys in that time is a mystery, but evidently you got your money back with only a small amount of hassle.

It was a real hassle because I had a very length wait to speak to somebody as the online account was not accessable. Also they insisted they could only refund to the oyster and because I don't use oyster frequently the refund is only available for several days via a touch on the gateline and you must start a journey in order to activate the refund. Yes I could touch the gateline but then the system would register it as an incomplete journey and charge a further penalty fare so back to square one.
Would be much simpler if the refund could be sent to any reader such as a TVM where you simply tap it and the credit is applied but no TfL can't do this.
This is one of the reasons why a paper ticket is so much simpler and more convenient. Also when service disruption takes place a touch in and out of the same station has issues.

Timely and effective refunds must to be sorted out by TfL that do not involve gateline touches especially with the wider roll out of contactless which will have similar issues to the London and SouthEast area under Project Oval.

 

[johncrossley]

It was a real hassle because I had a very length wait to speak to somebody as the online account was not accessable. Also they insisted they could only refund to the oyster and because I don't use oyster frequently the refund is only available for several days via a touch on the gateline and you must start a journey in order to activate the refund. Yes I could touch the gateline but then the system would register it as an incomplete journey and charge a further penalty fare so back to square one.

This is one of the reasons why contactless is preferable to Oyster. Unless the fare is cheaper using Oyster (for example because of a railcard discount) then there is little reason to use Oyster.

 

[heathrowrail]

The usual "this works, let's mess it up" by the current Mayor of London. Funny how him and the Labour party keep going on about the cost of living crisis yet want to make it more expensive for tourists to visit the City, which will inevitably impact businesses in the city. Where is the common sense (oh yeah politicians don't have any lol)

 

[johncrossley]

The usual "this works, let's mess it up" by the current Mayor of London. Funny how him and the Labour party keep going on about the cost of living crisis yet want to make it more expensive for tourists to visit the City, which will inevitably impact businesses in the city. Where is the common sense (oh yeah politicians don't have any lol)

Unless the ultimate blame lies with central Government for not providing TfL with enough funding. If you look at it that way, you can rewrite your post replacing "Labour" with "Conservative".

 

[Wolfie]

Unless the ultimate blame lies with central Government for not providing TfL with enough funding. If you look at it that way, you can rewrite your post replacing "Labour" with "Conservative".

Yup. If the choice is for tourists or local residents (voters!) to pay more the choice made is less than surprising....

 

[heathrowrail]

Unless the ultimate blame lies with central Government for not providing TfL with enough funding. If you look at it that way, you can rewrite your post replacing "Labour" with "Conservative".

Most people won't even know about that. I just reflect poorly on a party supposedly wanting to be our next government. But we shall leave politics out of any further discussion.

 

[Wolfie]

Most people won't even know about that. I just reflect poorly on a party supposedly wanting to be our next government. But we shall leave politics out of any further discussion.

I don't want to be political. However, firstly you are conflating the actions of local government with what a particular political party might do in power nationally. There are many who would say that national government should put UK interests first; surely that is effectively exactly what is being done in London at a local level. Secondly you want to criticise the reaction while studiously ignoring (perhaps because of your own beliefs) the cause.

 

[Adam Williams]

Unless the ultimate blame lies with central Government for not providing TfL with enough funding. If you look at it that way, you can rewrite your post replacing "Labour" with "Conservative".

I think, like most things, the situation is rarely black and white enough to conclusively pin blame either way.

Was the withdrawal of day travelcards the only way in which TfL could make savings following a reduction in funding? I very much doubt it.

 

[bcarmicle]

I don't use oyster frequently the refund is only available for several days via a touch on the gateline and you must start a journey in order to activate the refund.

In my experience, if you don't pick up the refund in time, the system still holds it, and when you do tap in on your next journey, it will reissue the refund so you can pick it up on your tap out (if there's enough time). I don't know how reliable this is as I don't think it's acknowledged anywhere.

(You could also pick it up on a bus which would cost you a £1.75 bus fare.)

 

[jon81uk]

This is one of the reasons why contactless is preferable to Oyster. Unless the fare is cheaper using Oyster (for example because of a railcard discount) then there is little reason to use Oyster.

Exactly, unless you need to add a railcard it is pointless to use Oyster for pay as you go now.

 

[miklcct]

Exactly, unless you need to add a railcard it is pointless to use Oyster for pay as you go now.

Another use is when using a combination of season Travelcard and PAYG on a through train.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

There are many usecases for Oyster over contactless. Cash payments and tourists are the primary ones (a not insignificant number of tourists do not have contactless-enabled cards, not to mention transaction fees).