The 'Carolean Express', new named service from LNER

[DanNCL]

From Saturday 6th May onwards, 1S15 1100 London Kings Cross - Edinburgh will be named the "Carolean Express". The name and date are both to mark the Coronation of King Charles III.

https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1648627845986435072?s=20

We are proud to launch a new named service to celebrate the Coronation of King Charles III. The daily 11:00 service between London King’s Cross and Edinburgh Waverley will be called the "Carolean Express”, with the inaugural service departing at 11:00 on Saturday 6 May 2023.

When was the last time a new name for a service was introduced on the ECML? Not talking about old names revived, specifically asking about names never used previously.

 

[hexagon789]

From Saturday 6th May onwards, 1S15 1100 London Kings Cross - Edinburgh will be named the "Carolean Express". The name and date are both to mark the Coronation of King Charles III.

https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1648627845986435072?s=20

When was the last time a new name for a service was introduced on the ECML? Not talking about old names revived, specifically asking about names never used previously.

I'd guess when the Aberdonian was renamed the Northern Lights in the 1990s.

 

[Halwynd]

I wondered whether a TOC would do this - that it is LNER is entirely appropriate.

At first I was going to suggest the The Highland Chieftain in 1984 as the last new name, but forgot about The Northern Lights.

GNER named all of its 'Eurostar' Leeds services The White Rose circa 2005, but that was a name previously used during the steam era and so would be classed as an old name revived.

But I also remember Grand Central naming a couple of their Sunderland services when they first launched. One was The 21st Century Limited, the other The Zephyr. Both were shown in the GBTT and I recall using one of them from York to King's Cross during the period they were advertised as named, but I saw/heard no evidence of any branding during the journey.

British Rail used named trains as a marketing tool with appropriate branding, publicity and announcements - why todays railway doesn't use them to similar effect is beyond me, so well done LNER!

 

[The North Briton]

From Saturday 6th May onwards, 1S15 1100 London Kings Cross - Edinburgh will be named the "Carolean Express". The name and date are both to mark the Coronation of King Charles III.

https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1648627845986435072?s=20

Hmm, quite a lot of people won’t understand what ‘Carolean’ means. ‘The Coronation Express’ or just ‘The Coronation’ would have had more impact, I think.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Hmm, quite a lot of people won’t understand what ‘Carolean’ means. ‘The Coronation Express’ or just ‘The Coronation’ would have had more impact, I think.

But the Coronation is a one off event but the Carolean era will last for many years. We shouldn’t play to the lowest common denominator amongst the British public. It’s still the 11 o’clock to Edinburgh, which couldn’t be clearer!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would love to see more named trains like these. They basically cost nothing yet evoke a nice piece of railway tradition, and if you don't like them you just ignore them.

 

[greyman42]

Hmm, quite a lot of people won’t understand what ‘Carolean’ means. ‘The Coronation Express’ or just ‘The Coronation’ would have had more impact, I think.

I remember they had "The Silver Jubilee" in 1977.

 

[Malaxa]

Hmm, quite a lot of people won’t understand what ‘Carolean’ means. ‘The Coronation Express’ or just ‘The Coronation’ would have had more impact, I think.

"Karlex" would be simpler - a revival of the name of the former cross-border express service between Berlin and Karlsbad [Karlovy Vary]

 

[Magdalia]

This name is clearly a reference to The Elizabethan that ran non-stop between Kings Cross and Edinburgh from 1953, the year of Queen Elizabeth II's coronation, until 1963.

 

[Iskra]

Nice idea.

Hopefully we can have the Coronation Scot return on the WCML too.

 

[AlterEgo]

This name is clearly a reference to The Elizabethan that ran non-stop between Kings Cross and Edinburgh from 1953, the year of Queen Elizabeth II's coronation, until 1963.

Indeed, and it's about time people started to know about the word Carolean - it's a great word!

 

[xotGD]

Can they officially name "The Airedale Executive" while they are at it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

We need the Master Cobbler back! I guess in modern terms that's the 1719 Northampton peak extra.

 

[JGurney]

Would love to see more named trains like these. They basically cost nothing yet evoke a nice piece of railway tradition, and if you don't like them you just ignore them.

I agree in principle, but there does not seem any point attaching a name to a service which is otherwise indistinguishable from the ones running at 30min intervals before and after it. Giving services names makes sense if they are in some way distinct, such as running only daily or less, being noticably faster than the other services on the same route, or having different accomodation such as the Pullmans. Sleepers and boat trains are (or were) examples, like the Night Riviera, Irish Mail or Golden Arrow, and once-daily services like the Pines Express.

The modern high-frequency railway does not have many of those, and apart from sleepers even fewer that are visually distinct. The former full-length loco-hauled Liverpool Street - Harwich boat train, making one stop on route, could fittingly bear the name 'Hook Continental', but its present-day descendent, an outer-suburban MU on a semi-fast commuter trip extended to a couple more stops after Colchester, hardly deserves a name.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree in principle, but there does not seem any point attaching a name to a service which is otherwise indistinguishable from the ones running at 30min intervals before and after it. Giving services names makes sense if they are in some way distinct, such as running only daily or less, being noticably faster than the other services on the same route, or having different accomodation such as the Pullmans. Sleepers and boat trains are (or were) examples, like the Night Riviera, Irish Mail or Golden Arrow, and once-daily services like the Pines Express.

The modern high-frequency railway does not have many of those, and apart from sleepers even fewer that are visually distinct. The former full-length loco-hauled Liverpool Street - Harwich boat train, making one stop on route, could fittingly bear the name 'Hook Continental', but its present-day descendent, an outer-suburban MU on a semi-fast commuter trip extended to a couple more stops after Colchester, hardly deserves a name.

1990s DB was mostly running a clockface service but still named pretty much every pair of IR, IC and ICE trains. They don't any more, but I thought it was a lovely touch to get on the "IC Hans Christian Andersen" even though that was exactly the same as the "IC Albert Einstein" an hour later. Stuff like this just makes rail travel sound better and it costs basically nothing bar some time to think up some names vaguely connected with places en-route.

They never named commuter services so the "Master Cobbler" wouldn't fit, but I'm not sure a train ever formally carried that name anyway and it might just have been a nickname? (Though I've seen staff put it on the displays of a 350 on the relevant service as a bit of a joke).

 

[hexagon789]

They never named commuter services so the "Master Cobbler" wouldn't fit, but I'm not sure a train ever formally carried that name anyway and it might just have been a nickname? (Though I've seen staff put it on the displays of a 350 on the relevant service as a bit of a joke).

There were some named commuter services historically - The Tinto was one.

 

[johntea]

Northern have their 150214 unit dedicated to 'The Bentham Line - A dementia-friendly railway' which is a nice idea apart from the fact it generally turns up on pretty much every other line than the Bentham Line!

They had a 'NHS Thank You' unit floating about on the Harrogate Line but not sure if that is reverted back these days

 

[Condor7]

I agree in principle, but there does not seem any point attaching a name to a service which is otherwise indistinguishable from the ones running at 30min intervals before and after it. Giving services names makes sense if they are in some way distinct, such as running only daily or less, being noticably faster than the other services on the same route, or having different accomodation such as the Pullmans. Sleepers and boat trains are (or were) examples, like the Night Riviera, Irish Mail or Golden Arrow, and once-daily services like the Pines Express.

The modern high-frequency railway does not have many of those, and apart from sleepers even fewer that are visually distinct. The former full-length loco-hauled Liverpool Street - Harwich boat train, making one stop on route, could fittingly bear the name 'Hook Continental', but its present-day descendent, an outer-suburban MU on a semi-fast commuter trip extended to a couple more stops after Colchester, hardly deserves a name.

I agree with you entirely. I have for over several years now posted on this forum regarding named trains and produced lists of all the current ones running on the network. Only recently I posted an update which showed that only East Midland Trains of all the TOC’s actually publish their named trains in the timetable, although as you say they are indistinguishable from all the other expresses. The Master Cutler is actually slower than several of the other expresses and as far as I can see offers nothing extra to its passengers.

What has surprised me however is that I contacted LNER in March and they told me that they were no longer naming their expresses which included The Flying Scotsman! Now this recent news release goes on to say the Carolean is being added to its long tradition of naming trains such as The Northern Lights etc etc, so this announcement has really taken me by surprise so have contacted them again for clarification.

All that being said the new LNER May 23 timetable does not mention either The Carolean or any of the others!

 

[eldomtom2]

I agree in principle, but there does not seem any point attaching a name to a service which is otherwise indistinguishable from the ones running at 30min intervals before and after it. Giving services names makes sense if they are in some way distinct, such as running only daily or less, being noticably faster than the other services on the same route, or having different accomodation such as the Pullmans. Sleepers and boat trains are (or were) examples, like the Night Riviera, Irish Mail or Golden Arrow, and once-daily services like the Pines Express.

The modern high-frequency railway does not have many of those, and apart from sleepers even fewer that are visually distinct. The former full-length loco-hauled Liverpool Street - Harwich boat train, making one stop on route, could fittingly bear the name 'Hook Continental', but its present-day descendent, an outer-suburban MU on a semi-fast commuter trip extended to a couple more stops after Colchester, hardly deserves a name.

The other option is to give the name to the service rather than a specific train (so for example giving the Carolean Express name to all the Kings Cross-Edinburgh expresses), as is still the standard practice in America, where named trains range in frequency from three a week to eighteen a day.

 

[skyhigh]

Northern have their 150214 unit dedicated to 'The Bentham Line - A dementia-friendly railway' which is a nice idea apart from the fact it generally turns up on pretty much every other line than the Bentham Line!

They had a 'NHS Thank You' unit floating about on the Harrogate Line but not sure if that is reverted back these days

Those are a bit different though as they're named/branded units rather than services.

Though I agree a 150 was an odd choice to name 'The Bentham Line' given 150s never go up the line and Skipton crews don't sign them...

 

[DanNCL]

I agree in principle, but there does not seem any point attaching a name to a service which is otherwise indistinguishable from the ones running at 30min intervals before and after it. Giving services names makes sense if they are in some way distinct, such as running only daily or less, being noticably faster than the other services on the same route, or having different accomodation such as the Pullmans. Sleepers and boat trains are (or were) examples, like the Night Riviera, Irish Mail or Golden Arrow, and once-daily services like the Pines Express.

But on the other hand one could argue that naming individual services and advertising the names would make services easier for passengers to identify as their service on departure screens, especially useful on the Northern ECML where there could easily be three Edinburgh departures within a 15 minute window, if the services were named the passenger would look for the train with the correct name, rather than having to distinguish between three very similar departure times. Using York as an example where there are departures to Edinburgh at both 1731 and 1735, "Cornish Scot" vs "Heart of Midlothian" would be a much more noticeable difference on departure screens than "1731 Edinburgh" vs "1735 Edinburgh" is.

1990s DB was mostly running a clockface service but still named pretty much every pair of IR, IC and ICE trains. They don't any more, but I thought it was a lovely touch to get on the "IC Hans Christian Andersen" even though that was exactly the same as the "IC Albert Einstein" an hour later. Stuff like this just makes rail travel sound better and it costs basically nothing bar some time to think up some names vaguely connected with places en-route.

DB still have some named ICs but these are mostly those that run less frequent routes, for example through journeys to Sylt or Ostseebad Binz.

OBB still name the majority of their IC services even where clockface timetables are used. The two-hourly ECs between Wien and Budapest are also all named - EC Semmelweis, EC Franz Liszt and EC Lehar all have identical calling patterns and passenger accomodation, the rest of the ECs extend at either the Wien or Budapest end so I've not counted those but they're all named too.

 

[RailWonderer]

Sounds great, although it makes more sense to name the 10:00 Aberdeen and the 12:00 Inverness ex-Kings Cross since they are unique in serving beyond Edinburgh as is the morning 07:55 ex-Inverness and the 07:52 and 09:52 ex-Aberdeen. If LNER wanted to follow tradition a bit further they could reintroduce a dining car service.

Let's bring back the Great Eastern and the East Anglian names next.

 

[WAB]

Naming them is a bit pointless unless you print them in the timetable, put them on the screens, and announce them onboard. Would be nice to have more, though.

 

[Fleetmaster]

No more than a gimmick these days, won't even be noticed by 99.9% of passengers. A headline, nothing more.

I seriously doubt anyone is banking on the name lasting ten years, and not least because He might not last that long himself.

The fact it introduces an obscure name and foists it on the Scots both feel like Charlean gaffes to me. If we assumed it was going to be widely used and known, even among railway circles, which it won't.

 

[Kite159]

Though I agree a 150 was an odd choice to name 'The Bentham Line' given 150s never go up the line and Skipton crews don't sign them...

In the last few years (pre Covid) 150s have been used on the Lancaster - Skipton line, mixed up with the Pacers. Although in the current timetable it's near enough solid 158.

As for the LNER named service, I will give it until May next year when it will quietly get dropped

 

[Flying Snail]

But on the other hand one could argue that naming individual services and advertising the names would make services easier for passengers to identify as their service on departure screens, especially useful on the Northern ECML where there could easily be three Edinburgh departures within a 15 minute window, if the services were named the passenger would look for the train with the correct name, rather than having to distinguish between three very similar departure times. Using York as an example where there are departures to Edinburgh at both 1731 and 1735, "Cornish Scot" vs "Heart of Midlothian" would be a much more noticeable difference on departure screens than "1731 Edinburgh" vs "1735 Edinburgh" is.

It would be just another piece of useless trivia infesting information screens.

What would actually be useful for ALL passengers, not just ones for supposed premier services, would be train/route numbers but the British railway has carefully avoided doing that.

 

[Purple Train]

Let's bring back the Great Eastern and the East Anglian names next.

Hillwalker Express might work.

I think this is a good idea though - after all, might it be better to have at least one vaguely jolly headline such as this from the railways, rather than doom, gloom, and strikes...?

 

[zwk500]

But the Coronation is a one off event but the Carolean era will last for many years. We shouldn’t play to the lowest common denominator amongst the British public. It’s still the 11 o’clock to Edinburgh, which couldn’t be clearer!

King Charles is 74 years old. We'll be into the Gulielmean era before most people have managed to remember it's a King not a Queen now.

 

[Rhydgaled]

British Rail used named trains as a marketing tool with appropriate branding, publicity and announcements - why todays railway doesn't use them to similar effect is beyond me, so well done LNER!

Are they going to have a headboard and/or announce the train as 'The Carolean Express' on the passenger information systems etc? If not, then it's not "well done LNER" since, as others have pointed out above, LNER are no longer identifying named trains in their PDF timetable, not even the 'Flying Scotsman' remains.

I agree in principle, but there does not seem any point attaching a name to a service which is otherwise indistinguishable from the ones running at 30min intervals before and after it. Giving services names makes sense if they are in some way distinct, such as running only daily or less, being noticably faster than the other services on the same route, or having different accomodation such as the Pullmans. Sleepers and boat trains are (or were) examples, like the Night Riviera, Irish Mail or Golden Arrow, and once-daily services like the Pines Express.

The modern high-frequency railway does not have many of those, and apart from sleepers even fewer that are visually distinct. The former full-length loco-hauled Liverpool Street - Harwich boat train, making one stop on route, could fittingly bear the name 'Hook Continental', but its present-day descendent, an outer-suburban MU on a semi-fast commuter trip extended to a couple more stops after Colchester, hardly deserves a name.

While named trains are most-appropriate for occasional services which are different in some way (such as the LNER services to Aberdeen/Inverness etc. and the IC125 diagrams on XC) I would not agree that naming normal services is completely pointless. It adds a touch of glamour which is surely useful for marketing, even if only slightly. For example, assuming an Intercity service every 30 minutes between Kings Cross and Edinburgh with the faster workings (calling only at York and Newcastle) leaving London every hour on the hour and slower services (with additional stops at the likes of Doncaster and Berwick-upon-Tweed) at 30 minutes past, I would still like to see the 10:00 from KGX named the 'Flying Scotsman'.

Naming them is a bit pointless unless you print them in the timetable, put them on the screens, and announce them onboard. Would be nice to have more, though.

(First)GWR used to annouce their named trains, such as 'The Pembroke Coast Express' and 'The Mayflower' on the platforms at the stations they managed when they were worked by IC125s. Not sure if they still do or whether the 800s/802s annouce(d) them onboard. I cannot remember on-board annoucements mentioning the name on the IC125s but then I don't think they had automated on-board announcements at all.

With the IC125s, FirstGWR used to put the name (and an associated logo) of the named train on the paper window blinds. Now that the new trains have electronic destination displays on them it should be easier to display the name for named trains, but probably not the logo.

In my view named trains should be identified as such in all of the following places:

• Printed & PDF timetables
• Station/Platform announcements
• Exterior electronic destination displays on the train

Ideally, they would also be identified on:

• Electronic information displays on stations/platforms
• on-board passenger information systems (not sure if this should apply to announcements, or only to the visual displays, given the complains of too many announcements)

 

[The Prisoner]

Bring back "The European" from Glasgow (and Edinburgh?) down the WCML to Preston, Manchester Vic, Sheffield (reverse), Nottingham, Peterborough, Ipswich & Harwich for the boat. Ended it's days piling straight down the WCML to Willesden via Brum and then back up to Harwich.

1310 from Penrith - would always see it at lunch when at school and would marvel at the never ending list of stops being reeled off on the tannoy (at the time Penrith had no electronic PIS and into the 90s services were written on a whiteboard in the booking hall - there wasn't enough spaces for all the stops!)

Actually caught it in around 86 and remember a pair of 31/4s on from Preston which broke down somewhere near Chinley and a 37/0 came to the rescue within an hour or so. With the service reversing at Sheffield a 47/4 was already waiting for us. Throw in the 86/2 which worked to Preston and that's four lots of haulage on one service!

Stopped in 88 I think.