I had to look that up. Pleased I did!
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UK switching to electric vehicles discussion
- Thread starter MattA7
- Start date
I had to look that up. Pleased I did!
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StKeverne1497
Member
Thanks. Very short on actual detail I note, but good that someone is having a go...
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Airstream (who else) have made the EV-caravan!
reddragon
Established Member
I did see a youtube video on it which was a bit better
In fact, compared to 30 years ago, it's likely that any modern car is less likely to need to be towed, with EV's needing to be towed even less.
I would certainly put concern about needing your car to be towed as something which is a very low risk.
I've only ever needed a breakdown service twice in the last 25 years and they were both because of a flat battery (one was I was stupid and over used my car's electrics when it wasn't running and one was due to a failed battery), neither required me to be towed.
For context, most of my cars when new to me have been over 3 years old and often kept for over 5 years (there was an exception to each of those statements), for example my current car is 11 years old.
I may well have just been lucky, however I suspect that if asked very few would have been towed ever. Even through childhood we were only towed once and that was because the cam belt (fortunately a rubber one, so didn't kill the engine) failed and needed replacing.
Again my parents were never one to buy a new car (until retirement, also they now have an EV).
Yep, only needed breakdown twice.
Once a Ford Escort that was second hand to me. Conked out randomly whilst I was turning round after dropping someone off in torrential rain. Turned out the ECU had failed.
Second time I drove a Fiat 500 into a Toyota Yaris at 55mph. Unsurprisingly the car wasn't driveable after that!
birchesgreen
Established Member
Think i've only needed breakdown assistance twice in the 20 odd years been driving too and one of those was due to a large pothole i drove over (in the dark, didn't have time to avoid it) breaking the suspension.
A flat battery is all my Sister's car has needed though my Gran's had a fuel pump fail (when I was doing a bit of driving as a learner, thought I'd done something wrong and was relieved when it wasn't my fault!), though waiting a while and changing the fuel pump fuse by the breakdown guy got it to the garage, cost more to fix than the value the car had been traded in for but they needed the vehicle for a holiday.
Note that being a rubber cam belt does not mean that failure is nit an issue, it's the type of engine that's the issue, and interference engines which are usually damaged by belt failure can be either metal chain or plastic/rubber/Kevlar belts and that's why keeping to the manufacturers specified replacement periods is important.
StKeverne1497
Member
I was driving my dad's car a few years ago and pretty much without warning* one of the springs snapped.
We were less than a mile away from the garage I normally use (central Cardiff), but it was evening so he wasn't open. However, the breakdown service were quite happy to put the car on a flatbed and take it over where it could be left parked on the street until the morning. I sent my dad home by other means and settled down to wait.
About 30 minutes after making the call, the truck driver telephoned me to confirm where I was and where I wanted to go. He knew the area well as he lived on the next street to the garage. However, it was pushing two hours before he arrived because he had had to drive to Bristol first to collect the truck!
Counter to some of the experiences noted above, in the 30+ years I've been driving I've been towed quite a lot. Broken clutch cable, after which I practised driving without the clutch (meaning that a couple of years later when the clutch arm went in a different car, I didn't need a tow!), rusted distributor, temporarily fixed with the spring from a biro, driveshaft spline failure (twice in the same car - the first fix was a "see if this works" and my mechanic explained very clearly why he'd not done the full job), dCi high pressure pump failure (fortunately under warranty), probably one or two others I've forgotten. I've also given a tow several times. Had plenty of other failures which needed immediate attention but not a tow, the most recent of which (a couple of months back) was the failure of the AdBlue dosing nozzle in a not-quite-four-year-old car leading to clouds of ammonia out the back until the ECU realised what was going on and shut the AdBlue system down altogether.
I can't tell if cars are generally more reliable than the ones of my childhood. It feels as if they are, but that might simply be because my dad's cars in the 1970s needed servicing every 6,000 or 8,000 miles while my last few cars have been 18,000 miles.
Oh, and the fact that where it has been an option, we have always had a spare tyre fitted to the car. My experience of punctures is that at least half of them are the sort that can't be "fixed" with a tyre inflation kit, and it's much quicker and more convenient to be able to swap a wheel than have to wait hours for the breakdown service.
*I say "without warning", but the car park we were leaving is notorious for its absolutely lethal speed bumps. Knowing this I am always careful entering and leaving, but thinking back I believe the spring went as we entered the car park, but that I didn't notice until we tried to leave.
I think that for many ICE cars, they're as reliable as they ever will be - because a lot of the manufacturers have all but given up developing new stuff. They're using their current engines and designs, and will do so until they go fully electric.
Obviously not all car makers are doing that and there are still many premium cars (including performance cars) being developed, but at the lower end (and I assume most people here are concerned about the cost of EVs so are only looking at sub £25k ICE cars) the choice of engines and specs is getting more and more limited as time goes on.
This means car makers can keep fewer parts as they'll fit multiple generations of vehicle. It might also make it cheaper to work on these cars, with more people understanding them.
Obviously not all car makers are doing that and there are still many premium cars (including performance cars) being developed, but at the lower end (and I assume most people here are concerned about the cost of EVs so are only looking at sub £25k ICE cars) the choice of engines and specs is getting more and more limited as time goes on.
This means car makers can keep fewer parts as they'll fit multiple generations of vehicle. It might also make it cheaper to work on these cars, with more people understanding them.
Some statistics on public chargers:
One of the interesting points is that about 1/3 of all chargers are on street, so clearly there's a move to try and cater for those with no off street parking.
One of the interesting points is that about 1/3 of all chargers are on street, so clearly there's a move to try and cater for those with no off street parking.
Given that most chargers are there to make a profit, that must mean that ownership of EVs is rapidly increasing so hopefully flushing CO2 generators off the roads as expected.Some statistics on public chargers:
One of the interesting points is that about 1/3 of all chargers are on street, so clearly there's a move to try and cater for those with no off street parking.
That's presumably because the firmware brought ISO support, where you had just been running DIN before. Unless there's a major bug, you'll not have to do that again in the life of the chargers.
telstarbox
Established Member
Have any legacy car manufacturers (not Tesla etc) announced "sunset" dates for their ICE production lines yet?
Jaguar 2025, Jaguar are seeking a reinvention, "British Tesla", at which point they will be sold off to leave Land Rover behind , Jaguar are seeking a partnership to develop an electric range, not much sign of interest. Jaguar cars never seem to make their mark in the market, sales volumes of each new model are way short of predictions.
Jaguar is too late, had they engaged much more say 10 or even 5 years ago they could be in a good position.
reddragon
Established Member
Some have, yes but I can't recall who & when, also same manufacturers phasing out ICEs in different territories.
Smart are already 100% EV, many switch ICE off 2025-2030 in Europe at least
johncrossley
Established Member
Although that is just a brand of the Mercedes-Benz Group. Making the Smart electric only seemed like a way of quietly killing off the brand that had long been loss-making.
Actuall, an electric Smart might have a very good chance as a small city/town runaround.
reddragon
Established Member
China has taken that market segment with much cheaper models or comparable quality, maybe not quite the crash resistance though.
But it hasn't made any serious attempt to market them in Europe yet.
reddragon
Established Member
Really? They made up 1.5% of the EU market in 2022 and are currently doubling every few months. Each model release soon becomes a market leader due to it's high quality & low cost
MG are the 10th best selling brand in the UK. Polestar / Volvo EVs are made in China as are many other western brands. Many of the UK supplies Teslas are made in Shanghai.
We have YPeng, BYD, GWM are sold EU wide and many more makes are arriving each years. You probably just don't notice them!
China will have 25% of the EU market within 5 years.
A review of the makes due in the UK: -
Car Dealer Magazine
The latest in UK motor trade news, covering car dealers, car manufacturers, workshops and more
cardealermagazine.co.uk
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RailWonderer
Established Member
I still don't understand this rush to electrify when many charging points don't work and there is a queue for the existing ones, both in my area and when I was up in Bicester and a few other places. Then the range will decline in between charges the older the battery becomes (like a phone) unlike an ICE where fuel economy does not decline as the engine ages.
Personally I will be driving ICE cars for as long as I can until they become classics. Battery technology needs to improve and the infrastructure needs to improve as well until the squeaking mice (that's what EVs sound like) replace ICE cars fully. So far, EVs being cheaper to run and maintain is enough for them to replace half of all driver's needs but not the other half who do longer distance drives (or want the option to).
Personally I will be driving ICE cars for as long as I can until they become classics. Battery technology needs to improve and the infrastructure needs to improve as well until the squeaking mice (that's what EVs sound like) replace ICE cars fully. So far, EVs being cheaper to run and maintain is enough for them to replace half of all driver's needs but not the other half who do longer distance drives (or want the option to).
The volume of cars light vans etc manufactured in China is greater than any other country and the difference is staggering 270% of USA car production, 350% of Japan.
Production can be within satelite factories of the well l-known names in Europe such as VW or Honda, but many are domestic Chinese brands
World Car Production Statistics
reddragon
Established Member
What? We should ban all ICE cars, vans & buses today, 2030 is far too late!! Are you not aware of pollution killing us or climate change?
Every house has a socket, 70% have access to off street parking so most don't care about public charging. I have to do very long trips to need public charging.
Most public chargers work, some networks - BP Pulse are rubbish, the rest are OK mostly user error! Yes, some areas have queues on peak travel weekends and these gaps are being filled very fast as the EV roll out happens. I had to queue once on a Bank Holiday weekend on the M6 last year and once in France on a holiday weekend but the waits for petrol pumps were long too.
EV batteries have software management and are nothing like phone batteries. Most are making 100,000 miles with minimal losses and lasting 500,000 miles without issues.
ICE engine power, fuel economy and emission declines significantly over their life requiring uneconomical major rebuilds at 100-150,000 miles.
EVs have been better than ICE cars for years and the network is also now much better.
As for long drives, long haul drivers are the fastest in transitioning to EVs. Companies in the UK are doing 100k a year in MG5s, in China doing 350,000 kms a year as 24 hour taxis without an issue. I regularly drive thousands of miles across Europe in mine (not a Tesla) easier than before with my old ICE.
You're a fool to stick to ICE unless you don't have somewhere to charge at home.
I was reading @AM9 as talking about small cars comparably sized to Smart's offerings. The Chinese are making inroads into the European market, but are they doing that with small cars or large ones?
reddragon
Established Member
A mixture really. The MG4 is the top small EV today, £25k for a decent car with lots of extras as standard.
BYD are more basic cars, Nio more top end, the same sort of range as European manufacturers. They will sell here whatever they can.
We can only expect multiple legacy manufacturers to vanish quickly.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
How have we ended up with a decent small car being accepted as being £25K? (It's not just EVs, it's all of them).
Not long ago it would have been half that, and £25K would have bought a premium-end estate or SUV from one of the midrange manufacturers. I know we've had some inflation, but not that much.
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RailWonderer
Established Member
Some equipment has had to be included standard in new cars by EU directives (e.g. reverse parking cameras). EVs are more expensive to produce as are petrol hybrids that are being sold from now to 2035, and manufacturers need to make a higher markup on their cars as associated R&D costs are high. Brexit has had an impact, and the parts shortages are not completely gone though.
The current downturn is leading to a small fall in new car orders and when more cars are being produced then are being sold, dealers sell on the forecourt at mark down on sticker price so these next few months will see some of those inflated prices fall for some cars. Also cars have been priced up because of mass PCP deals, they are priced with the monthly PCP cost in mind, not financing or god forbid (not in my view), outright cash payments.