Lighting quality on trains: are you bothered?

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It's a bit brighter but not unpleasantly so.

Good. We’ve already lost the nice fake wooden panels for a cheap looking duck egg.

 

[RailWonderer]

The Pendolinos, Voyagers and Meridians all have the best lighting for me. The new class 720s are very good, because the light casings are frosted and the light hue is slightly warm. Worst as said were the GWR HSTs, Desiro City units, Renatus 321s and Northern 150 refurbs.

Good. We’ve already lost the nice fake wooden panels for a cheap looking duck egg.

The DB ICE trains have lashings of fake wood and they look splendid. I think in the UK only TPE got the memo when refurbing the 185s.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The DB ICE trains have lashings of fake wood and they look splendid. I think in the UK only TPE got the memo when refurbing the 185s.

Yes exactly, but they’ve gone from a dark, realistic looking one in the ICE 3 and ICE T original interiors to a cheaper looking paler fake wood in the refurbished ICE 2/3 and ICE 3Velaro/ICE 4.

I think Aventras are much better than Desiro Cities in that they’re not as bright. The greyish/silver vice white panels probably help.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good. We’ve already lost the nice fake wooden panels for a cheap looking duck egg.

It wasn't fake wood, it was more a red leather effect if I recall.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2023 ==

The DB ICE trains have lashings of fake wood and they look splendid. I think in the UK only TPE got the memo when refurbing the 185s.

ICEs are I think real wood?

It seems to have been my suggestion on a survey in about 1998 that got the fake wood on the 158s - so maybe that's my doing too

 

[Deepgreen]

Good quality trains have lighting that is not intrusive and give passengers the ability to switch on additional lighting above their seat if they desire. Sadly, this is rare.

Yes. The refurbished 165s on my line (NDL) have the first class seat arm switches intact AND the bulbs in the fittings above left in situ BUT they don't work. I wonder how difficult it really would have been to make them work (with LED bulbs perhaps, for longevity). My preference is for a warmish colour temperature. There are many factors that should influence lighting, including passenger comfort, energy consumption and CCTV camera effectiveness. More ambience-reactive lighting would be good (i.e. dim lighting in bright, sunny weather, and so on).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2023 ==

I always loved the warm lighting on Virgin Pendolinos and fear the refurbishment will ruin this.

Class 700s, I feel, have an atmosphere strongly reminiscent of a dentist’s practice, probably down to the lights, but also the sterile blue interior and new paint smell which persists 6 years or so after their introduction.

The 700s' seats are nowhere near as comfortable as a dentist's chair!

 

[43066]

I feel, have an atmosphere strongly reminiscent of a dentist’s practice,

More like a mortuary than a dental practice, surely.

The 700s' seats are nowhere near as comfortable as a dentist's chair!

Continuing that theme, perhaps more similar to mortuary slab, certainly in terms of cushioning .

 

[Bald Rick]

I never, ever notice it. It doesn’t even register as a’thing’ to worry about.

 

[Jammy Dodger]

Bit of a controversial opinion here, but I feel all lights in public areas (not just trains) are overwhelmingly far too bright, to the point of being dazzling and adding to stress levels, especially at night. If I'm "inside" on a train, I don't want to be blinded - there is already enough light coming through the windows that lights are probably not needed at all.

Colour temperature is also important, but less so than overall brightness. If it's a "warm" yellow light, it feels old, whereas a "cool" blue light adds to the dazzling nature of the light.

TL;DR: Just pick a plain, simple, white colour and reduce the brightness by 50% from current levels

 

[Irascible]

Somewhat bothered by all public lighting, really, given I have almost no sensory input filters. I spend all my time on a train looking out the window though, so as long as it doesn't flicker ( begone luminescent tubes ) & isn't obnoxiously bright it's not a huge deal.

 

[ComUtoR]

Bright, cold white. Absolutely love it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bright, cold white. Absolutely love it.

Do you perchance suffer from seasonal affective disorder and thus have one of those lights at home?

 

[ComUtoR]

Do you perchance suffer from seasonal affective disorder and thus have one of those lights at home?

No.

 

[antharro]

When the 444s took over from the 442s on the SWML, one of the many things I disliked about them was the lighting. The 442s had great lighting - low colour temperature, not blindingly bright, but bright enough that you could still easily read when on an evening service. The 444s by comparison were too high temperature and way too bright. There was nothing quite like having a day out in London then bundling into a first class compartment with some sort of junk food and having a really nice relaxing journey home. Not possible on a 444, and although I've got used to them in the years since, they still don't have the ambience and comfort the 442s had.

 

[jagardner1984]

As someone who has some professional connection to various flavours of lighting …

It is systemic of the “pile them in” attitude of too much of UK rolling stock that so little thought is given to the lighting choices.

In other parts of the world, real pride seems to be taken in the comfort of the environment which can be sadly lacking here (I am sure there are bad examples overseas too).

It really isn’t too difficult to have some kind of Colour temperature controller - the atmosphere on an 8am 20 min journey commuter train - nice bright “daylight type” lighting, should be entirely different to a train trundling to a terminus at 11.30 at night, when it should be really minimal (with reading lights as appropriate) to illuminate for safety and not much more (think aircraft interior at night).

One size fits all doesn’t work, is completely avoidable and a small amount of effort would go a long way to improving the comfort of passenger areas.

There is something very primal (in a good way) - about the safety and warmth we feel in candle light / tungsten light / warm light. By contrast CSI industrial colour temperature at 11pm feels to the body entirely wrong.

And yet many obviously poor choices are so widespread, it makes you wonder if they were conscious choices at all.

 

[Western Sunset]

Ah, the days of turning off the lights in a Mk1 compartment, getting a good kip on the train, and then watching the sunrise over the London suburbs...

 

[kristiang85]

I didn't like it when Eurostar got rid of the nice old dim lighting and replaced it with the super bright lights we have now, and I find GWR very bright too.

I find dimmer lights mean naturally quieter trains. Bright lights just hype everybody up more.

 

[Western Lord]

I'm old enough to remember traveling in Mk.1 carriages which were usually unlit during daylight hours (the guard had to remember to switch the lights on before going through a tunnel, and switch them off a gain after). Many films and TV shows rely on unlit carriages going through tunnels for effect, such as The Lady Vanishes or the first episode of Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads.

 

[ricj]

This never hit home harder than back in 2003-05 when me and my girlfriend at the time used to go to Brighton most weekends in the summer and travelling on the old units back to London was an absolute joy in their beautifully lit compartments with comfortable seats.

Then the 377's started to appear and it became a case of crossing all our fingers that we'd get lucky and not have to travel back in a sterile , uncomfortable, bright and coldly lit plastic, 'taste of 'the future'.

Never been able to understand, either now or then, how the comfort of nearly all modern trains with their ambience of cold bright lights and uncomfortable seats can be considered progress... Surely a little extra thought into small things like lighting temperature shouldn't be so hard?!

 

[BRX]

I never, ever notice it. It doesn’t even register as a’thing’ to worry about.

Are you perhaps head of lighting design at a UK TOC? If not, you're the person they seem to want!

 

[Dave W]

I recall - and I may well have recalled to this forum before, so apologies - in the cold winter of 2010/11 a trip back from Birmingham to Cradley Heath - one of those days when it was "kick out whatever works" - an unusual(ish) 170 on a stopper. The lights failed at Snow Hill and either no one noticed or control just told the driver and guard to get on with it. So we sat in the dark marvelling at the bright lights of the Black Country, devoid of the regrettable window reflections caused by interior lights. Wouldn't want to do it at 11pm when the train is full of wronguns, but I wouldn't mind the temperature/brightness being a little more nuanced, altogether.

 

[Fleetmaster]

I have always assumed the trend toward super bright super white lighting in both trains and buses was about accessibility and safety. Designers aren't likely to not put any thought into it, although you wonder how much tight timescales and supply chains have affected the willingness or even ability to rectify a mistake that only becomes evident at the full interior prototype stage.

 

[Devonian]

A non train example, but I really dislike the lighting used in the Borismasters, which tries to ape the "tungsten bulbs" of the (unrefurbished) Routemasters with individual and really bright LEDs shining down, which I find pretty unpleasant.

The GWR refurbished HSTs were way OTT with the brightness of their lighting. Didn't they rectify this by turning half of them off?

Yes, and further rectified it by both changing both the colour temperature to a warmer tone and fitting auto-dimmers in the refurbishment of the first class carriages, so the lights dimmed when there was sufficient daylight.

Good quality trains have lighting that is not intrusive and give passengers the ability to switch on additional lighting above their seat if they desire. Sadly, this is rare.

The reading lights serve two purposes: evidently they allow the passenger to have extra, directional light; but they also remove the need for super-bright general lighting because the regulations allow dimmer ambient lighting if reading lights are fitted.

 

[nlogax]

Late to this thread and glad to see I'm not alone in twitching at the unpleasant memory of the awful lighting in those FGW refurbs. It was like stepping into a Chicken Cottage at 2am after a very long pub session.

 

[station_road]

Just my opinion, but this seems to be one of those things like seats aligning with windows that the vast majority of people really don't notice or care about in the real world. I have never heard anyone outside this forum comment about the lighting on board a train (except on the rare occasions when it used to go off completely on Mk 3 coaches, which is a different issue)

 

[43066]

Just my opinion, but this seems to be one of those things like seats aligning with windows that the vast majority of people really don't notice or care about in the real world. I have never heard anyone outside this forum comment about the lighting on board a train (except on the rare occasions when it used to go off completely on Mk 3 coaches, which is a different issue)

I think that applies to most topics discussed in excruciating depth on here!

 

[BRX]

Just my opinion, but this seems to be one of those things like seats aligning with windows that the vast majority of people really don't notice or care about in the real world. I have never heard anyone outside this forum comment about the lighting on board a train (except on the rare occasions when it used to go off completely on Mk 3 coaches, which is a different issue)

This thread was prompted by hearing some "real world" non enthusiast people talking about travelling by train and what they didn't like about it. Some complaints about prices but also about the harsh lighting onboard.

 

[snowball]

or the first episode of Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads.

which by remarkable coincidence is due to be repeated at 20:30 tonight (Tuesday 04/04) on BBC4!

 

[Bald Rick]

Just my opinion, but this seems to be one of those things like seats aligning with windows that the vast majority of people really don't notice or care about in the real world. I have never heard anyone outside this forum comment about the lighting on board a train (except on the rare occasions when it used to go off completely on Mk 3 coaches, which is a different issue)

agreed!

 

[Irascible]

Just my opinion, but this seems to be one of those things like seats aligning with windows that the vast majority of people really don't notice or care about in the real world. I have never heard anyone outside this forum comment about the lighting on board a train (except on the rare occasions when it used to go off completely on Mk 3 coaches, which is a different issue)

Maybe I just live around a bunch of people who like complaining, but I've heared complaints about *everything*.

 

[Deepgreen]

This thread was prompted by hearing some "real world" non enthusiast people talking about travelling by train and what they didn't like about it. Some complaints about prices but also about the harsh lighting onboard.

I think it's worth remembering that lighting can have significant subconscious effects, so even those who think they don't notice it probably do on some level. The blue lighting used at some stations to deter suicides are a great example. It need not be something to "worry"about, but it can be useful to consider it in design.