Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[pokemonsuper9]

Haven't they had these trains to test for years now?

As has been said many times on this thread
Real people are unpredictable.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Haven't they had these trains to test for years now?

Exactly. The first unit arrived at Kirkdale in January 2020 and the first unit entered traffic in January 2023. They have no excuse but it doesn't stop them making them anyway.

 

[Meerkat]

As has been said many times on this thread
Real people are unpredictable.

I reckon passengers are rather predictable - the railway does have getting on for 200 years of experience with them after all.
What can passengers do that can't be predicted and tested?
And how do passengers break a data recorder?

 

[MattRat]

Exactly. The first unit arrived at Kirkdale in January 2020 and the first unit entered traffic in January 2023. They have no excuse but it doesn't stop them making them anyway.

I've not actually seen Merseyrail make excuses, more just ignore the problems and don't talk about them. The 'excuses' more seem to come from the forums.

 

[chiltern trev]

The work has physically started at Southport.
For info, platforms 2 & 3 are being extended into the concourse towards the back of M&S, the third photo shows where the back corner of the M to Go shop has been cut out as the gateline is being moved and turned through 90 degrees, so will cut into this area.

What is the length of the platform extension?

 

[urbophile]

I snatched a brief ride from Central to Moorfields this morning (well about midday actually). Information panels weren't working (they said 'not in service', although passengers were sitting on board and the platform indicator said Kirkby.) Otherwise there didn't seem to be any problems. Nor do I see any problems with the seats; they seem more comfortable (admittedly harder) than the 507/8s.

 

[Bevan Price]

Trains seemed a lot more reliable when they kept everything as simple as possible, and did not use things like computers & software.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I reckon passengers are rather predictable - the railway does have getting on for 200 years of experience with them after all.
What can passengers do that can't be predicted and tested?

Passengers will open doors a lot more than they would in testing (imagine paying people to open doors 1000 times)

And how do passengers break a data recorder?

I don't say the passengers broke it, but possibly did a passenger asking for delay repay trigger them to realise it's wrong (yes that probably is more on the Stadler front).

 

[Meerkat]

Passengers will open doors a lot more than they would in testing (imagine paying people to open doors 1000 times)

I don't say the passengers broke it, but possibly did a passenger asking for delay repay trigger them to realise it's wrong (yes that probably is more on the Stadler front).

Set up a rig in a testing place/factory that punches the button 1,000 times. They set up rigs to test fatigue on whole airliners, car makers set up rigs that open car doors (a far more mechanical process) thousands of times.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

As has been said many times on this thread
Real people are unpredictable.

Indeed spending months on fault free running is a waste of time get them in service and you will find the problems a lot quicker. During this period you just need adequate technical backup resources and plenty of roving rolling stock supplied technicians to support the train crew.

 

[Bertie the bus]

I don't say the passengers broke it, but possibly did a passenger asking for delay repay trigger them to realise it's wrong (yes that probably is more on the Stadler front).

Eh? A passenger putting in a Delay Repay claim made them realise the onboard data monitoring system, which is a key piece of the safety system, wasn't working? A bit far fetched.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Eh? A passenger putting in a Delay Repay claim made them realise the onboard data monitoring system, which is a key piece of the safety system, wasn't working? A bit far fetched.

I would've thought that's when they'd need to get data from it, and realise it's wrong then.
I'm not a member of rail staff yet (I hope to be one day) so I didn't know how important it is, or how often it'd be checked

 

[43096]

I would've thought that's when they'd need to get data from it, and realise it's wrong then.
I'm not a member of rail staff yet (I hope to be one day) so I didn't know how important it is, or how often it'd be checked

I don't think you know what the OTMR data recorder is: in simple terms it's the equivalent of an aircraft's "black box", although there are obviously significant differences.

It is absolutely nothing to do with delay repay claims.

 

[Bertie the bus]

I don't work on the railway either but I know they don't download a train's data monitoring system to process Delay Repay claims. It contains the sort of data they use if there is an operational incident to establish why it happened but not to verify somebody's train was late.

 

[Winthorpe]

I would've thought that's when they'd need to get data from it, and realise it's wrong then.
I'm not a member of rail staff yet (I hope to be one day) so I didn't know how important it is, or how often it'd be checked

See this very quick introduction to the data recorder from Wikipedia:

Train event recorder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Thank you for all the corrections, I did not research a piece of hardware I was unfamiliar with, instead making assumptions, that was a mistake on my part, and I apologise for that.

 

[Winthorpe]

Thank you for all the corrections, I did not research a piece of hardware I was unfamiliar with, instead making assumptions, that was a mistake on my part, and I apologise for that.

Don’t worry about it…

 

[Vespa]

Thank you for all the corrections, I did not research a piece of hardware I was unfamiliar with, instead making assumptions, that was a mistake on my part, and I apologise for that.

You may flail yourself in penance if it makes you feel better

Every day is a school day.

 

[ExRes]

Some interesting schedules currently in for this week

Wednesday 0700 0Z76 Kings Norton OTPD to Willesden Up & Down Relief and 1232 6Q77 to Walton Old Jct MSC Sidings

Thursday 2309 6Q78 to Kirkdale CS

Friday 0500 6Z79 to Walton Old Jct MSC Sidings, 0807 6Z80 to DB Cargo Fan A & B Sidings and 1501 0Z81 to Kings Norton OTPD

Now showing for tomorrow is 0745 6Q14 Dollands Moor Sidings to Willesden Up & Down Relief

 

[childwallblues]

Now showing for tomorrow is 0745 6Q14 Dollands Moor Sidings to Willesden Up & Down Relief

Should be a 777/1.

 

[DJH1971]

Should be a 777/1.

Amy idea which one?

 

[karlbbb]

At least one 777 did not start (or was taken out of service) this morning - the Kirkby service I saw through Kirkdale was served by an old train.

 

[Covshire1]

Amy idea which one?

142 + 144

 

[3973EXL]

142 + 144

6Q14 Reported as 66002 142 144 146

 

[pokemonsuper9]

142 + 144

6Q14 Reported as 66002 142 144 146

So are the /1s the 7 highest numbered even ones?
777140 [known], 142 [known], 144 [known], 146 [known], 148, 150, 152?

 

[Covshire1]

6Q14 Reported as 66002 142 144 146

Apologies. Was trying to post in between bites of my breakfast!

 

[stuu]

People moaning about all the issues with the new trains really should look at the threads on other recent (and indeed historic) new stock introductions. They are pretty much all the same. Be thankful they didn't order 701s

 

[Bertie the bus]

People moaning about all the issues with the new trains really should look at the threads on other recent (and indeed historic) new stock introductions. They are pretty much all the same. Be thankful they didn't order 701s

So it is OK for trains to be introduced with faults and passengers inconvenienced because they haven't been tested properly because that has happened with other new train introductions. That is a typical attitude on railway forums. Never look outside the railway world and don't look at the best examples and ask why they worked better but excuse the worst.

 

[Bletchleyite]

People moaning about all the issues with the new trains really should look at the threads on other recent (and indeed historic) new stock introductions. They are pretty much all the same. Be thankful they didn't order 701s

701s at least haven't been put in passenger service yet.

 

[M28361M]

At least one 777 did not start (or was taken out of service) this morning - the Kirkby service I saw through Kirkdale was served by an old train.

Can confirm there is at least one out: I saw 777049 at Moorfields working 0843 Kirkby-Liverpool Central.