UK Emergency Alert Tests

[Meerkat]

I've just seen somebody on Twitter making the rather good point that this - particularly the fact that it will sound even if you have sound turned off - puts at risk people in precarious domestic situations that have a 'secret' phone they don't want other people they live with to know about.

But of course the government don't care less about that, as long as they can continue to push fearmongering onto the general public.

You can turn it off in settings.
I'm struggling to understand why so many tinfoil hats have been donned about this - can anyone explain please?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can turn it off in settings.
I'm struggling to understand why so many tinfoil hats have been donned about this - can anyone explain please?

Not quite sure. It's just a replacement for an emergency newsflash on the radio or TV, recognising that far fewer people consume those two forms of media these days than used to.

I'm not sure the sound really needs to be quite so dystopian, though, nor do I think it's necessary for it to override any mute setting; I have my phone on vibrate and don't need sound to know it's vibrating, that's kind of the point.

 

[Mag_seven]

I'm struggling to understand why so many tinfoil hats have been donned about this

Well potentially they could use the system to tell you to do things such as "stay at home", not that you would expect a liberal western democracy to issue such an instruction - oh hold on a minute!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well potentially they could use the system to tell you to do things such as "stay at home", not that you would expect a liberal western democracy to issue such an instruction - oh hold on a minute!

Which they managed to do without such a system. It's just an extra line of communication.

 

[Meerkat]

Not quite sure. It's just a replacement for an emergency newsflash on the radio or TV, recognising that far fewer people consume those two forms of media these days than used to.

I'm not sure the sound really needs to be quite so dystopian, though, nor do I think it's necessary for it to override any mute setting; I have my phone on vibrate and don't need sound to know it's vibrating, that's kind of the point.

Is it dystopian? Sounds fairly normal alarm sound to me. I assume its supposed to be only for events important enough that sound matters - does vibrate alert you if your phone is in another room, in your bag, or you are asleep? AIUI it lasts a relatively short time and doesn't repeat, so if you missed it the first time you have missed it until you look at your phone next.

Well potentially they could use the system to tell you to do things such as "stay at home", not that you would expect a liberal western democracy to issue such an instruction - oh hold on a minute!

Sure....but you wouldn't have to stay at home unless they have changed the law.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it dystopian? Sounds fairly normal alarm sound to me.

It's a pretty horrible sound, quite flat and jarring.

I assume its supposed to be only for events important enough that sound matters - does vibrate alert you if your phone is in another room, in your bag, or you are asleep?

Yes. Vibrate tends to rattle the thing the phone is sat on.

I suspect it'll end up being used fairly often, e.g. to ask people to stay out of the way if a police chase is in progress to make their job easier, so it'd be nice were it a bit less jarring. If it would only be used for very serious stuff, e.g. if an area is being evacuated or there's an incoming nuclear strike, then fair enough, but I think it will end up being far more useful (and used) than that.

 

[nlogax]

This is someone's phone from Warntag last year, early December. Exactly what I experienced and how I expect it'll sound in April.

 

[MikeWM]

You can turn it off in settings.

Turns out I already had on my iPhone when I checked last night. Must have done it when I set it up.

Any ideas how to turn it off on my Microsoft Lumia running Windows 8?

I'm struggling to understand why so many tinfoil hats have been donned about this - can anyone explain please?

I suspect part of it is the realisation that something sent by the government can 'override' the settings on your phone (even though in this case it does so in a mostly harmless way). Though that should hardly be a surprise to those who paid any attention to what Edward Snowden revealed some years back, and I'm sure they do even more than that nowadays.

--

Which they managed to do without such a system. It's just an extra line of communication.

...and of the two messages they sent to everyone during covid, one was a lie and one was mostly useless, which doesn't bode well for the government using this new system in a responsible way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder what the basis for designing the sound was?

1. To make it jarring so you turn it off? (I do know the reason for some building fire alarms being REALLY loud is so people choose to evacuate rather than ignoring it because it's so unpleasant).
2. Because it's audible to more people with hearing disabilities?
3. Something else or both of the above?

 

[Meerkat]

It's a pretty horrible sound, quite flat and jarring.

Its not a siren or really foreboding though. I was expecting the noise in that nonsense "Greenland" that was on Amazon.

I suspect part of it is the realisation that something sent by the government can 'override' the settings on your phone (even though in this case it does so in a mostly harmless way). Though that should hardly be a surprise to those who paid any attention to what Edward Snowden revealed some years back, and I'm sure they do even more than that nowadays.

What are the government overriding - its a separate setting on your phone that is defaulted to 'on' isn't it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Its not a siren or really foreboding though. I was expecting the noise in that nonsense "Greenland" that was on Amazon.

You don't think? I think it's a horrible noise, like fingers on the blackboard.

What are the government overriding - its a separate setting on your phone that is defaulted to 'on' isn't it?

It overrides mute/vibrate unless you turn it off entirely. Personally I would like it on but for it to respect mute and vibrate.

 

[Ediswan]

I wonder what the basis for designing the sound was?

1. To make it jarring so you turn it off? (I do know the reason for some building fire alarms being REALLY loud is so people choose to evacuate rather than ignoring it because it's so unpleasant).
2. Because it's audible to more people with hearing disabilities?
3. Something else or both of the above?

(1) Deliberately unpleasant so that you pay attention.

 

[MikeWM]

What are the government overriding - its a separate setting on your phone that is defaulted to 'on' isn't it?

I think most people think some settings are 'more important' than others and you don't expect them to be overriden. I'd say for example that on Apple phones the 'default' controls in the control centre are the 'more important' settings, but either way sound being off is certainly of those key settings. Actually, probably the most important, as it is the one thing that Apple - not a fan of buttons - still provide a physical switch for on their phones!

Conversely finding the 'emergency notifications' setting requires looking in your notifications options and scrolling a very long way to the bottom. The UI clearly prioritises one of these options over the other.

 

[Intercity110]

Conspiracy theorists will have a field day with this.

I’m glad that there is a system like this, most other developed nations have had them for years. Why have we only just caught up?

we did have one up until the 90s, called the 'four minute warning'. you might've heard of it. still think the govt is woefully under-prepared though

 

[Phil56]

What I'd be more interested in are local alerts for, say, flooding, fires, etc. A local alert to tell the Grenfell residents to evacuate would have saved lives. Or even local alerts on, say, motorways to warn drivers of accidents, delays, blockages, etc to tell them to leave the motorway so they don't get stuck for hours in queues with no facilities.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What I'd be more interested in are local alerts for, say, flooding, fires, etc. A local alert to tell the Grenfell residents to evacuate would have saved lives.

Yeah, this may be a good use of it, but if it is used more widely like that it really shouldn't be quite as disruptive.

Or even local alerts on, say, motorways to warn drivers of accidents, delays, blockages, etc to tell them to leave the motorway so they don't get stuck for hours in queues with no facilities.

The best way to handle this is to improve the quality and immediacy of the data feeds to satnavs so they divert automatically, not to have people wanting to look at their phone while driving. In my experience this is getting very good indeed, but like anything it could be better, and "we are diverting you off the M6 because of an accident causing queues" may be useful added information for it to read out.

 

[Ediswan]

What I'd be more interested in are local alerts for, say, flooding, fires, etc. A local alert to tell the Grenfell residents to evacuate would have saved lives.

No alert would have been sent. The policy at the time was to stay put.

Edit: Let me rephrase that. If an alert had been sent, it would have stated the then current policy which was to stay put.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No alert would have been sent. The policy at the time was to stay put.

The policy was later changed, but there was no means to communicate that to the residents other than where someone outside knew someone inside. This is where the alerts would have been useful.

 

[Phil56]

No alert would have been sent. The policy at the time was to stay put.

It was, but as mentioned in the public inquiry, evacuation was considered by officers but initially rejected because they had no way of communicating/instructing an evacuation to those inside the building. A part of the "stay put" advice is whether there's actually a fire alarm system or not. Some officers said that had there been a means of communicating such an instruction, it would have been given. In fact, after a while (arguably too long), the "stay put" policy was revoked and later 999 callers from within the tower were in fact instructed to get out (and there were witnesses who were residents and had successfully evacuated themselves an hour or two after the fire started). But the call handlers said they had no way of telling people who'd already phoned that their initial advice to stay put was now reversed. At the inquiry, one of the barristers asked the control room supervisor whether they'd considered calling back previous 999 callers as they would have had their phone numbers logged from their initial call, but apparently, they didn't have the manpower to start calling back. Some kind of emergency messaging service could have solved the manpower shortage.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Mar 2023 ==

The policy was later changed, but there was no means to communicate that to the residents other than where someone outside knew someone inside. This is where the alerts would have been useful.

Yes indeed. In fact some survivors only got out because they were phoned/texted from family/friends outside the building giving them information as to the severity and telling them to get themselves out!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Mar 2023 ==

No alert would have been sent. The policy at the time was to stay put.

Edit: Let me rephrase that. If an alert had been sent, it would have stated the then current policy which was to stay put.

At the early stages of the fire, yes, but when it became blatantly obvious that the fire service couldn't control the fire, then that changed and a means of communication was needed, which unfortunately, didn't exist. The inquiry heard testimony from fire fighters who were knocking on doors telling people to get out, which obviously isn't something they can do for everyone in such a large building!

 

[Pinza-C55]

I've known about this for a long time since I Googled "how would we be warned of an incoming nuclear attack ?" and the answer was that the government would commandeer mobile phone networks and send a warning to all phones.
There seems to be an element of support for UK involvement in the Ukraine war and we are being pushed ever closer to the brink of nuclear war. So when the real warning comes you'll all have 15 minutes to have a last pint or whatever before a share of Putins estimated 6200 nukes wipes us off the face of the Earth.

 

[MotCO]

I suspect it'll end up being used fairly often, e.g. to ask people to stay out of the way if a police chase is in progress to make their job easier, so it'd be nice were it a bit less jarring. If it would only be used for very serious stuff, e.g. if an area is being evacuated or there's an incoming nuclear strike, then fair enough, but I think it will end up being far more useful (and used) than that.

In an emergency, there is a danger that everyone will want to send messages or make calls. If you recall, in the terrorist blast on 7/7, the mobile networks were overloaded. In such an event in future, 'normal' mobile phones will be disabled, but mobile phones belonging to the emergency services will continue to operate for obvious reasons. (I used to be on call for tde NHS, and my phone had to be taken away to be set up for this.)

 

[westv]

I've known about this for a long time since I Googled "how would we be warned of an incoming nuclear attack ?" and the answer was that the government would commandeer mobile phone networks and send a warning to all phones.
There seems to be an element of support for UK involvement in the Ukraine war and we are being pushed ever closer to the brink of nuclear war. So when the real warning comes you'll all have 15 minutes to have a last pint or whatever before a share of Putins estimated 6200 nukes wipes us off the face of the Earth.

Will delay repay still be applicable?

 

[Meerkat]

It overrides mute/vibrate unless you turn it off entirely. Personally I would like it on but for it to respect mute and vibrate.

That seems to negate the point of it

Conversely finding the 'emergency notifications' setting requires looking in your notifications options and scrolling a very long way to the bottom. The UI clearly prioritises one of these options over the other.

The news stories tell you how to turn it off. I really can’t see any objection apart from conspiracy loon ones. If they use it unnecessarily people will turn it off and then it loses its usefulness.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That seems to negate the point of it

Not really. My phone is always on vibrate and I don't miss calls.

 

[Meerkat]

Not really. My phone is always on vibrate and I don't miss calls.

Even when asleep or your phone isn’t in the same room as you?
As it’s supposed to be important enough to demand your attention, and you hopefully will never receive one, why does it matter if it makes a noise rather than just vibrate?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Even when asleep or your phone isn’t in the same room as you?

Yes. As I mentioned earlier, a vibrating phone vibrates the thing it's on. I can definitely hear it downstairs.

As it’s supposed to be important enough to demand your attention, and you hopefully will never receive one, why does it matter if it makes a noise rather than just vibrate?

I think it will be used a lot more than that. For instance, I don't consider it urgent to be warned of the weather forecast in this manner as it doesn't require immediate action at 3am, looking at my phone when I wake up and deciding not to travel would be sufficient. Nor do I want to be asked to stay at home at 5am because they're chasing a knifeman, I'd prefer to be asleep.

If it's only used for a warning of something requiring immediate action like terrorist activity, nuclear strike or other evacuations, fine, but not because it might be a bit windy tomorrow.

I suspect I'm going to end up turning it off entirely, and that wouldn't be a good thing.

 

[MikeWM]

As it’s supposed to be important enough to demand your attention, and you hopefully will never receive one, why does it matter if it makes a noise rather than just vibrate?

The government have already anticipated one such case, with this page that almost no-one will read in time:

https://www.gov.uk/alerts

If you’re driving or riding when you get an alert

You should not read or otherwise respond to an emergency alert whilst driving or riding a motorcycle.
If you are driving, you should continue to drive and not respond to the noise or attempt to pick up the mobile phone and deal with the message.
Find somewhere safe and legal to stop before reading the message. If there is nowhere safe or legal to stop close by, and nobody else is in the vehicle to read the alert, tune into live radio and wait for bulletins until you can find somewhere safe and legal to stop.

This clearly does have the potential to cause road accidents. Only a slight potential, yes, but given the millions of cars likely to be on the road at the time, certainly not zero.

The news stories tell you how to turn it off. I really can’t see any objection apart from conspiracy loon ones. If they use it unnecessarily people will turn it off and then it loses its usefulness.

The people who read the news stories are probably not the people who 'need' the alerts! You also assume the ability to turn the option off will remain into the future, which they will no doubt remove if enough people do turn it off.

I fail to see any circumstance where this will be useful. Yes, if we lived in a hurricane or tornado zone, like much of the USA, then that would potentially be a good use for this. But we don't.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Perhaps a siren system would have bee simpler?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps a siren system would have bee simpler?

It would be simpler to install and maintain a huge network of sirens audible to every household rather than do something in software using existing devices?

Really?

 

[Shrewbly]

Perhaps a siren system would have bee simpler?

Maintaining approximately 32,000 sirens and their control systems wasn't very easy or cheap! That was certainly part of the reason why the old system was retired around 1990.