Class 180 Adelantes leaving EMR

[Dinszy]

It shouldn’t be too long. It’s back at Etches Park now fully formed

Thank you for the update. Pleased to hear that it has been restored back to it's full consist size.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Passing Etches Park this afternoon (on a down Sheffield) my attention was drawn to three railway staff looking at a train in the sidings. It was 180.110 and it now has its 5th coach back (behind the DMS at the opposite end to the MF). The repaired coach was immaculate.

It will be interesting to compare the time that it was under repair with the time it's back in service before it's shredded at Newport...

 

[skyhigh]

I'm pretty sure they would have to be returned to the rosco the same as they were received.

Normally but not always - for example some 142s were sent back exactly as they'd left service or with bits and bobs missing as there was an agreement with the ROSCO that was permitted. Given the apparent level of corrosion, it's also likely EMR received it in a corroded state and it hasn't occurred while on lease to them, so the repair cost is probably on the ROSCO not the TOC.

 

[BJames]

Passing Etches Park this afternoon (on a down Sheffield) my attention was drawn to three railway staff looking at a train in the sidings. It was 180.110 and it now has its 5th coach back (behind the DMS at the opposite end to the MF). The repaired coach was immaculate.

It will be interesting to compare the time that it was under repair with the time it's back in service before it's shredded at Newport...

Even though we've not got long left of the 180s with EMR, I'm really pleased to hear this. There were some services where 4 cars were just absolutely not enough, and 5 cars would have been still very busy but at least it would have gone some way to easing the crowding. There was one I remember a while ago north out of St Pancras where the Train Manager stopped boarding 8 mins before departure because it was already completely full and standing.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Even though we've not got long left of the 180s with EMR, I'm really pleased to hear this. There were some services where 4 cars were just absolutely not enough, and 5 cars would have been still very busy but at least it would have gone some way to easing the crowding. There was one I remember a while ago north out of St Pancras where the Train Manager stopped boarding 8 mins before departure because it was already completely full and standing.

Indeed. The 15.12 Nottingham St Pancras is diagrammed for a 180, and I have used it on a number of occasions as part of my regular Sheffield - Wellingborough journey. It's particularly well loaded between Leicester and Kettering and fully loads a 5 car. When 180.110 turned up, it was incapable of accommodating all the prospective passengers .
Of course, perhaps one could reasonably ask why, with 4 180s to choose from and 2 diagrams to cover, the 4 car one was that selected for a diagram that included a particularly busy train. Presumably it was because the two 5 cars reclining at Etches Park were demic., though.

 

[spotify95]

The way that the 222 (and Voyagers) have a film coating on the glass that stops RF, such as mobile phone signals. Nothing to do with preventing people being ejected in an accident - other trains have the same requirements but don't block your phone signal.

But yes, chronic corrosion is a bigger issue, in my opinion, along with chronic unreliability. 222s are a better overall train, but the 180s do have certain plus points.

Got it in one. The metallic film will also block out other frequencies too, not just 3G/4G etc, so good luck listening to FM or DAB radio.
Some windows have either been replaced, or had their film break down in the inside of the window, and at those spots, RF is fine!

Can this corrosion not be repaired if the operator believes it to be worth their time? Grand Central still have 180s that they are not getting rid of? The 180s were also built in 2000/2001, so if people's argument is valid on here that 22x is only halfway through its serviceable lifespan, then by definition, the 180s also have a significant period of time before they should be considered for scrap. Some of the (modified) HST's are still running to this day and they were built in the late 70s/early 80s!

IMO the 180s are a better train than any 22x, even though I've only been on 180s a couple of times. The HST's (EMR blue - as I never got to ride on any LNER red sets) were also a better train than any 22x, ignoring the disability legislations (necessary in order to accommodate all passengers) that required the HSTs to be either modified or scrapped.
Can't wait for the 810s to come along and replace the 222s, the 222s will then have no confirmed home so should settle nicely in their new life at Newport Sims Metals. Calling at Newport Sims Metals only.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Got it in one. The metallic film will also block out other frequencies too, not just 3G/4G etc, so good luck listening to FM or DAB radio.
Some windows have either been replaced, or had their film break down in the inside of the window, and at those spots, RF is fine!

Can this corrosion not be repaired if the operator believes it to be worth their time? Grand Central still have 180s that they are not getting rid of? The 180s were also built in 2000/2001, so if people's argument is valid on here that 22x is only halfway through its serviceable lifespan, then by definition, the 180s also have a significant period of time before they should be considered for scrap. Some of the (modified) HST's are still running to this day and they were built in the late 70s/early 80s!

IMO the 180s are a better train than any 22x, even though I've only been on 180s a couple of times. The HST's (EMR blue - as I never got to ride on any LNER red sets) were also a better train than any 22x, ignoring the disability legislations (necessary in order to accommodate all passengers) that required the HSTs to be either modified or scrapped.
Can't wait for the 810s to come along and replace the 222s, the 222s will then have no confirmed home so should settle nicely in their new life at Newport Sims Metals. Calling at Newport Sims Metals only.

From a passenger environment POV the 180s are lovely. It is the poor buggers who have to maintain them and those who work on them that have the issues. There is a rumour buzzing around that the EMR units are destine to join the rest of the fleet at Grand Central.

 

[WAB]

Can this corrosion not be repaired if the operator believes it to be worth their time? Grand Central still have 180s that they are not getting rid of? The 180s were also built in 2000/2001, so if people's argument is valid on here that 22x is only halfway through its serviceable lifespan, then by definition, the 180s also have a significant period of time before they should be considered for scrap. Some of the (modified) HST's are still running to this day and they were built in the late 70s/early 80s!

They are falling apart. You fix one thing, another breaks. They are going sooner rather than later because they cost too much to keep going - Arriva are only keeping them on for now because, reading between the lines, DB is very reluctant to invest in Arriva, their access rights are up in 3 years, and revenue has been a bit subpar since the pandemic. Internet reception on the 22xs is naff, I know, but the 22xs will probably fulfil their designed lifespan whereas the 180s' continual problems from new have wiped out theirs.

 

[QSK19]

From a passenger environment POV the 180s are lovely. It is the poor buggers who have to maintain them and those who work on them that have the issues.

Absolutely agreed. I really do love the 180s and really wish that they could be rid of their fundamental problems; however, I think you could throw all the money in the world at them and they still won’t be rid of their issues. Alas, as much as I’m sad to say this, if they’re too much of a liability, they need to go.

 

[Dinszy]

From a passenger environment POV the 180s are lovely. It is the poor buggers who have to maintain them and those who work on them that have the issues. There is a rumour buzzing around that the EMR units are destine to join the rest of the fleet at Grand Central.

Do we know if GC are chasing any additional paths, or have sufficient paths to run more services? Or is this just to double up their diagrams?

 

[Trainbike46]

Do we know if GC are chasing any additional paths, or have sufficient paths to run more services? Or is this just to double up their diagrams?

it could be just to make up for the unreliability of the 180s....

 

[dosxuk]

Got it in one. The metallic film will also block out other frequencies too, not just 3G/4G etc, so good luck listening to FM or DAB radio.
Some windows have either been replaced, or had their film break down in the inside of the window, and at those spots, RF is fine!

More importantly, it also blocks solar radiation, meaning the carriage temperature is much more stable, and especially easier to keep cool on a sunny day without hammering the air conditioning.

There was a proper fashion for this sort of film to be fitted to vehicles and buildings because of the environmental benefits, it wasn't until the smart phone explosion that the downsides of attenuating RF became a concern. Even when the 222's were introduced, the idea that people would demand internet access throughout their journey was seen as a minor concern, that could be solved by connecting their laptops to paid for wifi, that itself didn't need to be that good, because it would only be people sending or receiving the odd email.

Do we know if GC are chasing any additional paths, or have sufficient paths to run more services? Or is this just to double up their diagrams?

More likely to allow them to have sufficient stock to run their planned timetable. GC also have problems with 180 reliability (as does every operator who's ever had the misfortune to end up with them).

 

[WAB]

Do we know if GC are chasing any additional paths, or have sufficient paths to run more services? Or is this just to double up their diagrams?

Given that up to half of their diagrams are being dropped each day due to lack of units, I doubt it would be for any reason other than as spares cover.

 

[driverd]

Do we know if GC are chasing any additional paths, or have sufficient paths to run more services? Or is this just to double up their diagrams?

Got it in one.

I do believe that all four have a home to go to.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I agree that the 180s could, with some attention to detail, provide a high standard of passenger comfort, being like an up to date Mk3 - apart from the intrusive pulsating whine and vibration that is sometimes produced.

However, one thing puzzles me. When other stock is returned from lease it has to be in good condition - for instance, I was told by a former colleague that some South-Eastern units had flooring renewed before going off for scrap. But when the 180s entered service (and I know this may be dismissed as a 'first world problem') in the First Class cars many of the seat recline handles were snapped off, curtains missing, long narrow gaps in the carpet, lavatory doors sticking so need a strong push, different colour gangway fluorescent lights, drop down tables on airline seats drop with a thud, restraints broken. Presumably, E.M.R. do not address these points because D.f.T won't sanction expenditure; but how did First Hull Trains get away with it?

 

[Clarence Yard]

There is an inspection and the returning TOC has to pay for any shortcomings, unless the ROSCO waives the charges.

I didn’t think the HT units were returned in that bad a state. There was a discussion about the corrosion, which has been evident for a few years now.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I agree that the 180s could, with some attention to detail, provide a high standard of passenger comfort, being like an up to date Mk3 - apart from the intrusive pulsating whine and vibration that is sometimes produced.

However, one thing puzzles me. When other stock is returned from lease it has to be in good condition - for instance, I was told by a former colleague that some South-Eastern units had flooring renewed before going off for scrap. But when the 180s entered service (and I know this may be dismissed as a 'first world problem') in the First Class cars many of the seat recline handles were snapped off, curtains missing, long narrow gaps in the carpet, lavatory doors sticking so need a strong push, different colour gangway fluorescent lights, drop down tables on airline seats drop with a thud, restraints broken. Presumably, E.M.R. do not address these points because D.f.T won't sanction expenditure; but how did First Hull Trains get away with it?

I don’t remember them being that bad under Hull Trains but agree they’re in a terrible state now, and it’s certainly not a “first world problem,” such observations are issues in a first class carriage for which one must pay a fair bit to travel in, especially when (I personally find) Meridian first is so nice, which is what you’d normally get.

 

[Mikw]

I really like the 180's, they're comfortable and quick. However, i've experienced a few breakdowns.
If they're not gone in May they'll be likely unavailable during the hot summer weather anyway, they don't seem to like heat

 

[Hairy Bear]

Lease runs out 1 week after the timetable change and will not be renewed.
Last few weeks for them. Enjoy the 'Squeely Pigs' whilst you can.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’m in Australia and thus will never go on 180110, so despite much effort (GC is not an easy TOC to follow) I’ll never clear Class 180 now

 

[driverd]

I’m in Australia and thus will never go on 180110, so despite much effort (GC is not an easy TOC to follow) I’ll never clear Class 180 now

Should be able to get it at GC if you try hard enough?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Should be able to get it at GC if you try hard enough?

Since when has it been announced that they're taking it on?

 

[spotify95]

Managed to board a Class 180 today (180109) and they certainly look a little worse for wear on the inside in some areas. Still, way better than the condition of some of the 222s, and the 180s also have proper windows meaning I can actually pick up 4G!
If it wasn't for the 180s having structural issues then the 180s should be kept and the entire 22x fleet being turned into tin cans... or whatever Newport Sims actually do with scrap metal.

Oh, the 180s also have USB plug sockets as well as traditional plugs. They're also nice and zippy in terms of acceleration. Shame they're going.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Managed to board a Class 180 today (180109) and they certainly look a little worse for wear on the inside in some areas. Still, way better than the condition of some of the 222s, and the 180s also have proper windows meaning I can actually pick up 4G!
If it wasn't for the 180s having structural issues then the 180s should be kept and the entire 22x fleet being turned into tin cans... or whatever Newport Sims actually do with scrap metal.

Oh, the 180s also have USB plug sockets as well as traditional plugs. They're also nice and zippy in terms of acceleration. Shame they're going.

From my own personal point of view, I'm glad they're going in that I can turn up for an EMR Intercity service knowing exactly what I'm getting. I personally find the 222's interior far nicer, largely down to the very warm indeed lighting and warm red colour scheme, and a tatty 180 would have been a disappointment for me. Now there's one consistent product, as there will be when the 810s are in service (unless they retain some 222s)

 

[Wolfie]

Managed to board a Class 180 today (180109) and they certainly look a little worse for wear on the inside in some areas. Still, way better than the condition of some of the 222s, and the 180s also have proper windows meaning I can actually pick up 4G!
If it wasn't for the 180s having structural issues then the 180s should be kept and the entire 22x fleet being turned into tin cans... or whatever Newport Sims actually do with scrap metal.

Oh, the 180s also have USB plug sockets as well as traditional plugs. They're also nice and zippy in terms of acceleration. Shame they're going.

The 222s have the merit of being much less likely to go up in flames....

 

[The Middle]

Not quite dead yet! Apparently being brought back out on Monday to help shift the Wednesday and Barnsley fans

 

[43066]

Not quite dead yet! Apparently being brought back out on Monday to help shift the Wednesday and Barnsley fans

113 was sitting fully powered up in Etches Park this afternoon.

 

[liamf656]

Not quite dead yet! Apparently being brought back out on Monday to help shift the Wednesday and Barnsley fans

That’s correct

Sheffield to London

Realtime Trains | 1Z09 0800 Sheffield to St Pancras International | 29/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 1Z09 0800 departure from Sheffield to St Pancras International on 29/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1Z10 0900 Sheffield to St Pancras International | 29/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 1Z10 0900 departure from Sheffield to St Pancras International on 29/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

London to Sheffield

Realtime Trains | 1Z11 2045 St Pancras International to Sheffield | 29/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 1Z11 2045 departure from St Pancras International to Sheffield on 29/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1Z13 2240 St Pancras International to Sheffield | 29/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 1Z13 2240 departure from St Pancras International to Sheffield on 29/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[WesternLancer]

That’s correct

Sheffield to London

Realtime Trains | 1Z09 0800 Sheffield to St Pancras International | 29/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 1Z09 0800 departure from Sheffield to St Pancras International on 29/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1Z10 0900 Sheffield to St Pancras International | 29/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 1Z10 0900 departure from Sheffield to St Pancras International on 29/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

London to Sheffield

Realtime Trains | 1Z11 2045 St Pancras International to Sheffield | 29/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 1Z11 2045 departure from St Pancras International to Sheffield on 29/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1Z13 2240 St Pancras International to Sheffield | 29/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 1Z13 2240 departure from St Pancras International to Sheffield on 29/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Thx for posting - non stop runs then.

 

[QSK19]

Thx for posting - non stop runs then.

Photographers to the ready to take some final snaps - I’m tempted to go to Loughborough station myself and take a video of one passing through.