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Class 379 updates (all are OFF LEASE)

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Mikey C

Mikey C

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Railperf said:
Well the plan was for EMR to refurbish them internally. The 379s would also have required refurbishing ..they aren't much newer.
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The planned work for the 360s will be far more comprehensive though than that needed for the 379s.
 
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class397tpe

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A0wen said:
The problem with 379s instead of 323s for Northern is the 379s are 4 x 20m units, which means they can't be doubled up on various routes due to their length. Whereas the 323s are 3 x 23m, so running 6 car formations is possible. Northern also have 323s already and the ones they are hoping to take from WMR are to replace the 319s - so it gives them a much more common fleet - which should help them with maintenance and driver training.

The 350/2s are the same as the 379s i.e. 4 x 20m.
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Do the 379s or 350/2s have SDO?

Yeah I appreciate it doesn't really make much sense especially as they already have 323s, just feels crazy to let newer much nicer units potentially go to scrap rather than upgrading the experience for passengers elsewhere.
 
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Bletchleyite

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class397tpe said:
Do the 379s or 350/2s have SDO?

Yeah I appreciate it doesn't really make much sense especially as they already have 323s, just feels crazy to let newer much nicer units potentially go to scrap rather than upgrading the experience for passengers elsewhere.
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350s used to be UDS (Unit Deselect), which is manual SDO in groups of 4 coaches only, basically from any front cab you can release only the doors forward of that cab. I'm not sure if they've had ASDO retrofitted now, I half recall they have but might be wrong.
 
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SolomonSouth

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Railperf said:
Far worse situation for West Anglia commuters to lose the 379s and be shunted back onto veteran 317s - which should have been scrapped years ago.
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Yep - the 317s are terrible trains. Stayed well longer than they should have. Slow. Unreliable.
class397tpe said:
It just feels insane to send them to the scrapyard when other operators are still operating much older units (e.g. northern with 323s, or scotrail with 318s and 320s). Scotrail would be unlikely due to the need for 3/6 car units, but that wouldn't be an issue with northern as they currently operate 4-car 319s and 3x23m 323s.
Yes, Northern has never operated electrostars before, but neither had they operated 319s or 195s or 331s etc. It feels insane to send the 12-y/o 379s to the scrap while northern continues to operate older worse non-air conditioned 28 y/o 323s, for many more years to come. Considering that they are hoping to end up with 34 3-car 323s, 30 4-car 379s might just work (and be a hell of a lot nicer for passengers).
Tbh, even the 37 class 350/2 would be nice for northern instead of 323s, and provide an upgrade for passengers over 323s, with air conditioning. Just much more modern.
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Unfortunately, not all decisions made on the railway make a lot of sense. The 365 and 332 are cases of this. And why are TFW for example replacing their 175s but not the far worse 153s? It doesn't make sense. Hence why the 379s will be scrapped, because there are no companies that'd need them and I don't think their value is recognized.
 
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aleggatta

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SolomonSouth said:
Yep - the 317s are terrible trains. Stayed well longer than they should have. Slow. Unreliable.

Unfortunately, not all decisions made on the railway make a lot of sense. The 365 and 332 are cases of this. And why are TFW for example replacing their 175s but not the far worse 153s? It doesn't make sense. Hence why the 379s will be scrapped, because there are no companies that'd need them and I don't think their value is recognized.
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If these units were to be scrapped(I don't believe they will), I wouldn't be surprised if another ROSCO attempted to purchase them before they departed. Seems to me that it would make more sense for the owners to try to flog them to one of the roscos that own other electrostar fleets.
 
43096

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aleggatta said:
If these units were to be scrapped(I don't believe they will), I wouldn't be surprised if another ROSCO attempted to purchase them before they departed. Seems to me that it would make more sense for the owners to try to flog them to one of the roscos that own other electrostar fleets.
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If Akiem can't get them back on lease, why would another ROSCO buy them so that they can't lease them either?
 
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northernbelle

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The fact is there are more electric units available than there are routes for them to run on - a combination of premature replacement of other fleets (some of them with a sensible financial case for doing so) and a reduction in the London commuter market.

Meanwhile, the leisure market, which relies significantly on the UK diesel fleet, is bursting at the seams in many areas - if only the foresight to continue electrification beyond what's been done had been taken we could have all these spare EMUs replacing, for example, Turbos on the Oxford, Basingstoke and TV branch services and Sprinters in the Northern area.

Electrostars are used outside of the UK - I personally wouldn't limit speculation of a future use to this country.
 
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JonathanH

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northernbelle said:
Electrostars are used outside of the UK - I personally wouldn't limit speculation of a future use to this country.
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How do you reach that conclusion? They have been off lease since February. If someone wanted then overseas, don't you think they would have gone by now?

northernbelle said:
Meanwhile, the leisure market, which relies significantly on the UK diesel fleet, is bursting at the seams in many areas - if only the foresight to continue electrification beyond what's been done had been taken we could have all these spare EMUs replacing, for example, Turbos on the Oxford, Basingstoke and TV branch services and Sprinters in the Northern area.
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Foresight = money. Who was going to pay for the electrification you suggest just to use a set of spare EMUs that were anticipated to be used on an already electrified route?
 
TT-ONR-NRN

TT-ONR-NRN

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JonathanH said:
How do you reach that conclusion? They have been off lease since February. If someone wanted then overseas, don't you think they would have gone by now?
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I think 379s going to support the Gautrain fleet is a far more likely suggestion than many, and not to forget that the 442s were off lease before SWR decided they wanted those, as were the 365s before ScotRail did the same, and the late 317/7 fleet was randomly brought back to life twice.

However, I don’t want to speculate outside of the appropriate subforum.
 
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northernbelle

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JonathanH said:
How do you reach that conclusion? They have been off lease since February. If someone wanted then overseas, don't you think they would have gone by now?


Foresight = money. Who was going to pay for the electrification you suggest just to use a set of spare EMUs that were anticipated to be used on an already electrified route?
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Depends on the price. The market value goes down if something isn't required and it's good commercial practice to drive a hard bargain if you possibly can. It's potentially why GWR are putting their need for 30 EMUs out to tender given the market is awash with them at the moment.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that continuing electrification on to other routes would be significantly cheaper than completing it, walking away and then picking it back up in years to come. The industry was telling DfT that back in 2017 and I know there's been great disappointment at the immediate loss of knowledge and resources by not keeping the momentum going. Given carbon and operating costs are such factors too, it's a terrible legacy to have left behind.
 
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northernbelle said:
Electrostars are used outside of the UK - I personally wouldn't limit speculation of a future use to this country.
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We welcome speculation but just a reminder to everyone that posts of a speculative nature belong exclusively in our Speculative Discussion area please.

Anyone is welcome to create a thread if there isn't a suitable one already.

This is an updates thread, as it is not in the speculative section and therefore - with the agreement of the original poster - this thread will remain locked until there are further developments.
 
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warwickshire

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Today Saturday 11th June 2022.
On the 5G50 1100 Harwich Tip Sidings to Ilford E.M.U.D Depot through Maningtree approximately 5 minutes saw 37601 take 379011 and 379002 back to Ilford E.M.U.D Depot. For some reason. Does anyone else know why.
379s off lease or pastures new?
Any information. Much appreciated.

Ie 5 minutes late.
 
GEC465

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5 mins late most likely due to the trackside fire at Forest Gate earlier
 
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Nicholas Lewis

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warwickshire said:
Today Saturday 11th June 2022.
On the 5G50 1100 Harwich Tip Sidings to Ilford E.M.U.D Depot through Maningtree approximately 5 minutes saw 37601 take 379011 and 379002 back to Ilford E.M.U.D Depot. For some reason. Does anyone else know why.
379s off lease or pastures new?
Any information. Much appreciated.

Ie 5 minutes late.
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So they can't even work under there own power now!
 
306024

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Nicholas Lewis said:
So they can't even work under there own power now!
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If it really started from the tip sidings, no overhead wires would be the problem, but never seen 379s there. Was told there's an ex West Anglia driver at Colchester that signs 379s and has been doing some of the moves.
 
Wivenswold

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Can GA drivers still drive them if they're off-lease? Clarence Yard's suggestion seems likely though.
 
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Mamorin

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Never heard the term "fire sale" before, so does that meen scrap or sold to another leasing company at scrap value?
 
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