Caledonian Sleeper

[furgus2]

I’ve not long arrived at Fort William after my first experience of travelling on the Mk5s. Overall, a pleasant experience. The Avanti lounge at Euston was open yesterday evening, the train was mostly on time, the room was good, the shower worked well and the water was warm. However, I have to agree about the quality of the ride. It really did feel solid as if there was no suspension.

All in all, I would hope to travel on the sleeper again in the future.

 

[AberdeenBill]

Currently on the ‘new’ sleeper for my 3rd time. I’ve struggled to sleep in the past but I’ve always been over the bogies. This Room is in the middle of the coach so it was looking promising.
I’m afraid the Ride is terrible. Noisy clack and bang from the suspension, if there is any. It’s Like it’s rose jointed. Interior rattles. Brakes are groaning. The stop/start shunting is done with no finesse. What part of this is meant to encourage sleep?!

I think this is a great forum, but when i read many of the comments i often think that i am the only person who gets a half decent sleep. I have had both end and middle berths. I now notice a slightly more comfortable ride in the middle but only because this forum drew my attention to the bogies at the ends. The rattles, creaks and groans don't really bother me and are almost quite comforting as i get off to sleep (the pre and during journey beers / wine may assist as well). The shunting at Waverley always wakens me up but that is fine as it lets me know where we are and hopefully on time and i soon get back to sleep again.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

I think this is a great forum, but when i read many of the comments i often think that i am the only person who gets a half decent sleep. I have had both end and middle berths. I now notice a slightly more comfortable ride in the middle but only because this forum drew my attention to the bogies at the ends. The rattles, creaks and groans don't really bother me and are almost quite comforting as i get off to sleep (the pre and during journey beers / wine may assist as well). The shunting at Waverley always wakens me up but that is fine as it lets me know where we are and hopefully on time and i soon get back to sleep again.

I'll second all of these comnents. I was on last nights Southbound Edinburgh Lowland and slept reasonably well

 

[Trainbike46]

I think this is a great forum, but when i read many of the comments i often think that i am the only person who gets a half decent sleep. I have had both end and middle berths. I now notice a slightly more comfortable ride in the middle but only because this forum drew my attention to the bogies at the ends. The rattles, creaks and groans don't really bother me and are almost quite comforting as i get off to sleep (the pre and during journey beers / wine may assist as well). The shunting at Waverley always wakens me up but that is fine as it lets me know where we are and hopefully on time and i soon get back to sleep again.

I slept fine in the seats when I used it, and I'm sure everyone would sleep better in a berth than in a seat.

I was also wondering, I assume passengers in seats don't get lounge access (or at least, passengers in seats with a regular ticket plus a seat reservation for the sleeper don't), am I right?

Also, regarding the issues of cost to the Scottish government and demand exceeding supply for the sleeper, could they not just put 2+2 seats with the same pitch, instead of the current 2+1 arrangment in the seated carriage. It obviously wouldn't bring in that much more income, but wouldn't require any extra stock or staff either, and 25% more seated places would reduce the frequency of all seats being reserved (I hope!)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also, regarding the issues of cost to the Scottish government and demand exceeding supply for the sleeper, could they not just put 2+2 seats with the same pitch, instead of the current 2+1 arrangment in the seated carriage. It obviously wouldn't bring in that much more income, but wouldn't require any extra stock or staff either, and 25% more seated places would reduce the frequency of all seats being reserved (I hope!)

One issue with doing that would be that there'd be no real benefit over road coaches for the higher price. Yes, it has the cachet, but the wider seats will no doubt be part of the marketing for some.

To be fair the Riviera is 2+2 (which was done to add seats for commuters when it used to do the morning Cornwall stopping service) but that's typically so quiet you can curl up across 2 seats - 2 coaches of seats often with 2 passengers in total. 2+2 overnight with every seat taken would be grim, unless they fitted deep-recline coach seats which would come at quite a cost to have them certified. Can you imagine a night in a Sophia? That'd be enough to send you running to Megabus...

 

[Trainbike46]

One issue with doing that would be that there'd be no real benefit over road coaches for the higher price. Yes, it has the cachet, but the wider seats will no doubt be part of the marketing for some.

To be fair the Riviera is 2+2 (which was done to add seats for commuters when it used to do the morning Cornwall stopping service) but that's typically so quiet you can curl up across 2 seats - 2 coaches of seats often with 2 passengers in total. 2+2 overnight with every seat taken would be grim, unless they fitted deep-recline coach seats which would come at quite a cost to have them certified. Can you imagine a night in a Sophia? That'd be enough to send you running to Megabus...

I was working under the assumption that someone travelling in the seats on a sleeper wasn't too concerned about comfort - if you were, you'd obviously book a berth of some type.

I have to admit I didn't really think about the details of what seats you'd put in, but whatever the Night Riviera uses would be the obvious one I guess - or potentially using whatever OEBB is putting in their new nightjet seated coaches (if it fits). Potentially, the seats used in the refurbished avanti 390s would be an option - I had a nap in one yesterday and it was more comfortable to sleep in that most other seats thanks to wings on the headrest.

A night in a GWR IET seat would be horrible. I can sit comfortably despite the beam if I sit in the exact right position and posture - and that isn't realistic if you're trying to sleep in the seat, and as I understand it I'm pretty lucky that I can sit comfortably in them at all - I guess there are advantages to being skinny.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Riviera seats are a type not used elsewhere in the UK but are near identical to the new Pendolino ones in terms of shape and "wings".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Nov 2022 ==

I was working under the assumption that someone travelling in the seats on a sleeper wasn't too concerned about comfort - if you were, you'd obviously book a berth of some type.

It's a step above a road coach, reflecting it being more expensive than one. If you seated it to 2+2 it wouldn't be.

I'll give you that the Fort William is a unique thing, but on the Lowlander why would you pay CS about £50 when Megabus only wants 20 quid tonight (even cheaper in advance no doubt) for the same quality of accommodation? Or better quality, if the 2+2 seats didn't recline?

 

[BRX]

While sharing a cabin with a stranger (when it was allowed) was something I'd consider, I don't really want to spend a night half asleep in a seat right next to a stranger, and when I use the seats I always aim to get one of the single ones. The paired ones are fine for people travelling together, and maybe some people who aren't bothered. The 2+1 arrangement gives the best chance of a variety of people getting what they want and also provides an advantage over the bus alternatives.

 

[Trainbike46]

The Riviera seats are a type not used elsewhere in the UK but are near identical to the new Pendolino ones in terms of shape and "wings".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Nov 2022 ==



It's a step above a road coach, reflecting it being more expensive than one. If you seated it to 2+2 it wouldn't be.

I'll give you that the Fort William is a unique thing, but on the Lowlander why would you pay CS about £50 when Megabus only wants 20 quid tonight (even cheaper in advance no doubt) for the same quality of accommodation? Or better quality, if the 2+2 seats didn't recline?

While sharing a cabin with a stranger (when it was allowed) was something I'd consider, I don't really want to spend a night half asleep in a seat right next to a stranger, and when I use the seats I always aim to get one of the single ones. The paired ones are fine for people travelling together, and maybe some people who aren't bothered. The 2+1 arrangement gives the best chance of a variety of people getting what they want and also provides an advantage over the bus alternatives.

I continued talking in a new speculative thread because I was drifting a bit too far into speculative territory for a general thread I think: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/caledonian-sleeper-speculative-improvements-thread.239770/

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Nov 2022 ==

Is the lowlander likely to operate on the night of the 15th of december to the 16th? I know CS aren't striking, but of course if lines are closed due to the network rail strike they might not be able to run

 

[jagardner1984]

Likewise - had a search but couldn't find anything definitive - I have a booking on the 12th. Strike days are 13th and 14th. Wondered if any info on likelihood of getting anywhere, since Avanti are separately on strike that day.

 

[al78]

Not quite an "Orient Express" experience then ?

More like welcome to the flaky UK.

 

[BRX]

I arrived into Inverness yesterday evening; there was a 73+66 on the front of last night's sleeper. This morning's arrival has been shunted back into the platform and it looks like there's a 73 plus Colas 67 on the front.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

RTT entry for last night's 1S25 show 67023 and 73967 from Edinburgh to Inverness.

 

[Caleb2010]

I think we all knew through the forum that 67s were going to appear, previously they were the staple power north of Edinburgh- not sure there’s going to be a lot of difference between them and the 66s in terms of performance and reliability, it appears to be the 73s still occasionally failing!

 

[ScotsRail]

Passing through Stirling on Thursday and being stopped on the platform it looked like there was a "For Sale" sign up on the Sleeper lounge - is it on the way out?

edit - although I'm not sure how many people will see it if its inside the station rather than outside.

 

[paul1609]

Does Stirling get enough sleeper passengers to justify a lounge? I looked at it once but the 5 am arrival meant the overnight Megabus was a better bet, but i see that even this no longer serves Stirling.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Does Stirling get enough sleeper passengers to justify a lounge? I looked at it once but the 5 am arrival meant the overnight Megabus was a better bet, but i see that even this no longer serves Stirling.

I wonder if there is more potential southbound than northbound? In my book 00.12 is a reasonably civilised hour to join the sleeper whereas 05.00 is less so for alighting. Northbound passengers are perhaps more likely to use the Lowlander and change in Edinburgh or Glasgow.

 

[Caleb2010]

Speaking of Lounges, while I was on my way to the berth on Tuesday evening I passed a prefabricated “box” at the side of platform 1 at Euston with a sign on it proclaiming ’New Sleeper Lounge coming here!’

Is this true? Has the agreement with Avanti - nee Virgin come to an end?

Doesn’t look too inviting- in the darkest recesses of Platform 1 - or that large either!

Can anyone shed and light on this?

 

[jagardner1984]

It does seem if I were a government scrutinising the fabulous fun of the sleeper finances, once I'd finished crying, the lounges in some of the less used parts of the network might seem like an easy win. Deal done with some adjacent hotel / pub / cafe to provide "unlimited tea/coffee/snacks" on departure / arrival. Quite agree with somewhere warm at terminus stations, but personally think a cuppa in, say, the Premier Inn over the road at Dundee - with some sensible setup of Calls about amended departure times etc (E.g. Train Manager or Route Control call the "lounge" to advise) - seems a lot more hospitable than a biscuit and a machine cup of tea in what is ultimately a boxed off bit of a freezing train platform.

 

[zwk500]

It does seem if I were a government scrutinising the fabulous fun of the sleeper finances, once I'd finished crying,

If you were truly scrutinising the sleeper finances, at this point you'd ask the civil servant to bring you the biggest 'Cancelled' stamp in the cupboard.

 

[Peter Sarf]

If you were truly scrutinising the sleeper finances, at this point you'd ask the civil servant to bring you the biggest 'Cancelled' stamp in the cupboard.

Only to discover that the ink has run dry !.

 

[pitdiver]

There used to e sleeper lounge near platform 16 at Euston a few years ago if I recall. That was a giant Portacabin

 

[ajrm]

Speaking of Lounges, while I was on my way to the berth on Tuesday evening I passed a prefabricated “box” at the side of platform 1 at Euston with a sign on it proclaiming ’New Sleeper Lounge coming here!’

Is this true? Has the agreement with Avanti - nee Virgin come to an end?

Doesn’t look too inviting- in the darkest recesses of Platform 1 - or that large either!

Can anyone shed and light on this?

I had an issue at Euston over the summer (travelling in a berth that didn't give access to the lounge so no shower available and no shower at King's Cross either because they had run out of towels, causing me to go straight to work unwashed on the hottest day of the year—not pleasant). The response from CS implied that they were planning to open their own lounge at Euston to improve access and (presumably) avoid having to share facilities with Avanti over which they have little control.

It might help to avoid the absurd situation which means that the only sleeper passengers who have access to the showers at Euston are the ones who also have an en-suite shower on the train ...!

 

[Christmas]

Is the practically new guest lounge at Stirling station now closed? There is a huge To Let sign at the door.

 

[williamn]

I only really understand the need for a lounge when alighting. The sleeper boards so early (usually) that I’ve never had need of one pre-train.

 

[Bill57p9]

Assuming it doesn't all fall apart (see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/temporary-timetable-13th-dec-7th-jan.240206/unread), some interesting diversions coming up between Christmas and New Year:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C57455/2022-12-28/detailed

• Whifflet North curve, then via Cumbernauld & Falkirk Grahamston (Glasgow only, obviously)
• York avoiding line
• Primrose Hill & reversal in Wembley yard (standard when running via ECML)

 

[route101]

Assuming it doesn't all fall apart (see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/temporary-timetable-13th-dec-7th-jan.240206/unread), some interesting diversions coming up between Christmas and New Year:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C57455/2022-12-28/detailed

• Whifflet North curve, then via Cumbernauld & Falkirk Grahamston (Glasgow only, obviously)
• York avoiding line
• Primrose Hill & reversal in Wembley yard (standard when running via ECML)

Will they still use the Class 92 via Cumbernauld?

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I only really understand the need for a lounge when alighting. The sleeper boards so early (usually) that I’ve never had need of one pre-train.

Boarding at intermediate stations - e.g. Stirling (00.12)

 

[47296lastduff]

The need for a lounge pre-boarding applies especially if yourconnecting train is due well before departure, and you do not wish to freeze on the platform.

 

[_toommm_]

Hi all,

I'll be travelling for the first time in a bed on the Sleeper on Friday night from Fort Bill, as I don't think I can hack a night in the seats again. I'm currently booked in room 02, so will that be over the bogies (as I've heard bad things about being over the bogies). Also, and I know this is ultimately subjective, but do people actually manage to get good sleep? And I presume I'm last on the pecking order for the Club Car as I'm in a 'Classic Solo' room?

Thanks in advance