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Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

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L401CJF

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I was told recently that 230 and 197 will be introduced with the December timetable change on the bidstons, one on each diagram. Crew training has really ramped up on the 230 lately and they seem to be working quite well.

Ive signed them recently and I was pleasantly surprised. Interior is nice, they're quick off the mark and will be nice little trains if they can keep them reliable enough.

Only downside is the ride quality on jointed track due to their original design, but with most of it now replaced on the line they should be mostly smooth.
 
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craigybagel

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What is the logical next step with a microfleet during a period of austerity ?.
You make the best use of them, which in this case is on the Bidston line. Replacing them would either cost even more money, or result in a reduced service on other routes.
 

sw1ller

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Very unfunny.
It is very unfunny to be fair. There’s lots of jokes about them but when it’s cost the tax payer a rumoured but very believable £57m and they haven’t seen a day of service, it’s very unfunny indeed. And now Flintshire council have just been told they’re getting £20m less funding next year so that’s my council tax going up again, it’s very, very unfunny.
 

Speed43125

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I've just heard vivarail have gone into administration. Where does this leave TFW contractually?


Article in Rail advent says the following:
Steve McBride, Managing Director of Vivarail, explained: “The Board and I have worked incredibly hard to secure new investment in recent months, and although we have been encouraged by the level of interest, time is now against us to allow potential investors to step in. Combined with slow market conditions and delays in reaching certain key commercial arrangements we have had no choice but to file a Notice of Intention to appoint Administrators with the Courts.

The next few weeks undoubtedly represents a degree of uncertainty for everyone connected to Vivarail, including our 70 employees who have shown incredible commitment and dedication to decarbonising our railway. During this time Management, the Board or Directors and our advisors will leave no stone unturned in finding a solution.

We will now be consulting with our customers and other stakeholders to try and drive the business forwards, but we must be realistic in that if we are unable to deliver a rescue package Administration will unfortunately be inevitable.”
There is an implication that administration may not be inevitable, how far that's just press speak I don't know.
 

Bletchleyite

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So if they do (highly likely) enter administration, again, where does this leave TFW contractually?

It depends if another company buys that part of the business or if it is closed down. Administration does not necessarily mean full closure, part or all of the business can be sold.

Administration is more like Chapter 11 in the US except for that any restructuring has to be managed by an external company and not the company itself (though a pre-pack is remarkably close to C11).
 

Zontar

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It depends if another company buys that part of the business or if it is closed down. Administration does not necessarily mean full closure, part or all of the business can be sold.

Administration is more like Chapter 11 in the US except for that any restructuring has to be managed by an external company and not the company itself (though a pre-pack is remarkably close to C11).
Do TFW own them or lease them?
 
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No, TFW wouldn't own or lease the company they are contracted to. If this was to happen (in which most cases, is unlikely) then the company itself would probably go bankrupt if it was to happen and like i saud before, it is very unlikely that they will buy or lease it
 

Roger B

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Do TFW own them or lease them?
According to the 2022 P5 Locomotives & Coaching Stock Book, TfW are shown as the owners of the TfW units, whereas Vivarail are shown as the owners of the Marston Valley units.

That said TfW may (probably does) have contracts in place with Vivarail concerning their maintenance, etc. There could also be clauses within these contracts re what to do in the event of Vivarail going into administration, as it should have been recognised that this was a possibility at the time of drawing up contracts. Whether these were included, and whether they just cover ongoing maintenance or are wider-reaching - eg obligation to re-purchase units should TfW no longer want them, who knows? But if anyone does, I'm sure we'd all like to know! :D
 

Peter Sarf

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According to the 2022 P5 Locomotives & Coaching Stock Book, TfW are shown as the owners of the TfW units, whereas Vivarail are shown as the owners of the Marston Valley units.

That said TfW may (probably does) have contracts in place with Vivarail concerning their maintenance, etc. There could also be clauses within these contracts re what to do in the event of Vivarail going into administration, as it should have been recognised that this was a possibility at the time of drawing up contracts. Whether these were included, and whether they just cover ongoing maintenance or are wider-reaching - eg obligation to re-purchase units should TfW no longer want them, who knows? But if anyone does, I'm sure we'd all like to know! :D
Given that the Borderlands 230s have not entered service yet and have not proved their reliability I can see them being quickly replaced with BR era DMUs freed up by the looming wave of austerity.

The Marston Vale 230s are in service but seem to have proved their unreliability. Expect 153s !.

This is certainly bad news for innovation. Unless a new source of funding can be found quick enough.
 

OutdoorM

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Given that the Borderlands 230s have not entered service yet and have not proved their reliability I can see them being quickly replaced with BR era DMUs freed up by the looming wave of austerity.

The Marston Vale 230s are in service but seem to have proved their unreliability. Expect 153s !.

This is certainly bad news for innovation. Unless a new source of funding can be found quick enough.
Nooooo, Borderlands need the battery operated 777's so they can finally go onto the Liverpool loop line
 

TheSel

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Rail Regulator has now given approval for two trains an hour on the Wrexham - Bidston line.

Reported here as follows:

Rail regulator gives green light for two trains per hour on Wrexham to Bidston railway line​


The rail regulator has given the green light for more passenger trains to operate on Wrexham to Bidston railway line.

As part of the £50m North Wales Metro programme to “transform rail, bus and active travel services” across the region, the Welsh Government had committed to increasing the number of trains on the Borderlands Line to two per hour from May 2022.

However, Transport for Wales Rail Limited (TfWRL) and GB Railfreight Limited (GBRf) had both applied for capacity on the line that could not be accommodated together.

Currently, TfWRL operates an hourly passenger service between Wrexham and Bidston while GBRf freight services use sections of the track to serve Deeside and Avonmouth from the Padeswood Cement Works.

Network Rail’s initial capacity analysis showed that only one of the TfWRL or GBRf applications could be fully accommodated, so it rejected both.

GBRf and TfWRL asked the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) to take a decision on the competing applications for access to the line.

The ORR carried out an independent review that looked at the line’s capability, operational issues, and a cost-benefit analysis of the proposed services.

Today’s decision by the ORR will give TfWRL the capacity to add two passenger trains per hour on the line which serves Flintshire stations including, Buckley, Shotton and Hawarden.

The regulator has said its decision, “delivers a positive outcome for passengers with TfWRL able to run two trains per hour for most of the day.”

“This will provide a step change improvement to the passenger service provision in North Wales.”

“Equally, the decision reflects a positive outcome for freight and the local area.”

The freight trains which currently serve Padeswood cement works can continue with greater certainty because of the firm contractual basis, the ORR has said.

Each freight train on this line equates to the removal of 36 HGVs from the roads, bringing associated environmental benefits to the local area.

Stephanie Tobyn, Director of Strategy, Policy and Reform at ORR said:

“We are pleased to have reached a decision that promotes passenger and freight growth in line with our duties through an increase in passenger services and placing the freight trains serving the cement works on a firm contractual basis.

“Our review of the applications identified areas where Network Rail needs to improve its management of granting access to the rail network. We will continue to monitor the Wales and Borders route on these issues.”

Commenting on today’s decision, the influential Wrexham Bidston Rail Users Association (WBRUA) welcomed the announcement, however it highlighted issues around limited stop services and potential gaps in the time timetable.

A spokesperson said: “The WBRUA welcomes this long-awaited decision.”

“It is pleased to note that two passenger trains an hour will run for most of the day, albeit that the additional services are being planned as limited stop and will not call at some stations.”

“It is also pleased to note the benefits of freight traffic over the route to and from Padeswood.”

“Unfortunately, it appears there will be a one-hour gap in the passenger service for the foreseeable future to permit the freight paths in the early evening.”

“Whilst it is almost certainly too late for TfW to introduce additional trains from the next timetable change on 11 December, the Association will ask that TfW implements the additional passenger services as soon as possible and not wait until the next timetable change in May 2023.”

“The Association will also continue to push for line speed improvements which will enable the additional passenger trains to call at more stations together with track and signalling enhancements which will allow two passenger trains an hour to operate throughout the day alongside freight traffic.”

New trains?

Two trains per hour between Wrexham to Bidston will require additional units to be brought into service on the line.

TfW said in July it plans to introduce its brand new Class 197 “made in Wales” diesel trains on the Borderlands Line “by the end of this calendar year.”

The troubled Class 230 trains which were due to come into service on the line in 2019 are yet to enter service.

TfW has said its “focus remains” on bringing their Class 230 trains into service however the manufacturer Vivarail signalled last week its intention to appoint administrators.

Alexia Course, TfW Chief Commercial Officer told Deeside.com:

“We are awaiting official confirmation and information regarding the recent announcement from Vivarail.

“We will be in a position to provide an updated statement in the coming days, but our focus remains to bring our Class 230 units into service on our network.”
 

tomm

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Vivarails announcement of TFW 5 class 230 units trying to enter service 23rd January 2023. Is there any further confirmation on this.
 

tomm

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so it Looks more likely the 197s will be used on the Borderlines instead of the class 230 units. Not that likely will be 23rd January.
 

Bob Price

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Find it interesting that TfW having got 5 trains more or less ready to go would ditch them knowing how short of stock they are thanks to the 170's moving away. We await the timetable change with interest.
 

Caaardiff

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Find it interesting that TfW having got 5 trains more or less ready to go would ditch them knowing how short of stock they are thanks to the 170's moving away. We await the timetable change with interest.
Are they ready to go though? There's been no confirmation as such. Just that TfW are committed to getting them in service, which they have been for how many years now?
 

Peter Sarf

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As others have asked - what is your source ?
I am under the continued impression that Stadlers were acquired for the TfW Cheltenham service, and those Stadlers are bewing delivered to TfW on a regular basis. Unfortunately, I cannot remember whether they are to be 231x or 756s

231s were earmarked for Cheltenham and other shorter distance mainline services from Cardiff, with 756s on the Valleys. There has been a suggestion that with the 231s arriving first they might go on to the Valleys first temporarily so that the 769s can be retired, and then transfer to mainline services once the 756s arrive, but that's not been confirmed.

If that is the case, it is plausible that the 197s are temporarily used on the Cheltenham route until the 231s transfer over from the Valleys.

What is less plausible is this happening "early" in the New Year, given the first 197 only arrived in Cardiff last week and there's a lot of training required.
Makes sense to me that the first 231s will be available for non-valley services (ie Cheltenham) just as soon as the 197s would be. That is because the first of the 756s (for the valley services) are arriving in South Wales sooner than the 197s. If not sooner then not much later ?.
 

craigybagel

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Makes sense to me that the first 231s will be available for non-valley services (ie Cheltenham) just as soon as the 197s would be. That is because the first of the 756s (for the valley services) are arriving in South Wales sooner than the 197s. If not sooner then not much later ?.
That is indeed the most likely scenario. I was just trying to come up with a plausible scenario that would see the 197s going to Cheltenham early on.

My own suspicion (and not based on any official plans) is that the first use of 197s to Cardiff will be on Holyhead - Cardiff diagrams, but who knows? Plans have a habit of changing, and if there's one thing I can praise TfW for, it's their readiness to adapt long term plans as necessary.
 

Peter Sarf

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That is indeed the most likely scenario. I was just trying to come up with a plausible scenario that would see the 197s going to Cheltenham early on.

My own suspicion (and not based on any official plans) is that the first use of 197s to Cardiff will be on Holyhead - Cardiff diagrams, but who knows? Plans have a habit of changing, and if there's one thing I can praise TfW for, it's their readiness to adapt long term plans as necessary.
I think that makes sense, 197s probing Southwards from North Wales depot(s). Will then be a race into traffic of 756s vs 197s as far as purely South Wales is concerned.
 

L401CJF

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Just speaking to a colleague and the pushback to late January for 230 operation is apparently true.
 
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