LNER unreliability caused by staff shortages

[Seehof]

Mrs S’s 1506 to York and the 1525 Middlesbrough is also cancelled - no reservations available for anything else. Definitely in for a grumpy evening once she is home!
Why are they suddenly so short of so many staff?

 

[Twingo37175]

At least the 17;45 isn't a 5 coach Azuma.

No, but as far as I can see both the 16:15 and 18:15 are.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Nov 2022 ==

Mrs S’s 1506 to York and the 1525 Middlesbrough is also cancelled - no reservations available for anything else. Definitely in for a grumpy evening once she is home!
Why are they suddenly so short of so many staff?

As far as I am aware (from the thread) rest day working agreement is no longer in place

 

[GordonT]

Today is the worst I've known it so far in terms of cancellations.

Multiple Edinburgh's and Leeds' cancelled throughout and numerous part cancellations too.

Many more days like today and LNER will be well and truly welcomed to the Avanti and TPE club.

Will keep the acerbic Modern Railways columnist Alan Williams in a crust I suppose.

 

[Seehof]

They have just announced at KX on the 1500, that tickets for the 1506 & 1525 not valid and they have to go on the 1530. A very angry young mum with small child having to get off.
Surely they just want to get people on their way not piss people off and put 2 train loads on the 1530!?

 

[43094]

The 1306 ex Kings Cross is sitting in York 1530 - 1802.

With two exceptions (0540 SUN - KGX cancelled throughout, and 1523 KGX - MBR starting at DON), all the cancellations today are due to driver shortages, some directly, some as a consequence of them. The other two are due to a couple of unit failures this morning.

Agree that today is particularly bad. It won’t have been easy for the person in Control to plan, to minimise the effects to customers (as best they could!)

Rest Day Working officially ceases from Sunday, though lots are marking themselves as unavailable now. After that, some days will be better than others, partly depending on how many Driver Managers can fill uncovered jobs each day.

 

[johncrossley]

Are Grand Central trains OK to use during the forthcoming overtime ban, as an alternative to LNER?

 

[DanNCL]

If it can get this bad on the current timetable, I hate to think how bad things would be if the May 2022 timetable recast had gone ahead!

They have just announced at KX on the 1500, that tickets for the 1506 & 1525 not valid and they have to go on the 1530. A very angry young mum with small child having to get off.
Surely they just want to get people on their way not piss people off and put 2 train loads on the 1530!?

Is the 1500 busy? If it is then I can understand not allowing tickets for the cancelled trains to be used on it.

Are Grand Central trains OK to use during the forthcoming overtime ban, as an alternative to LNER?

If you have an off peak or anytime ticket yes as is always the case with those tickets unless they specifiy a TOC. No ticket acceptance for advances or any ticket that states 'LNER only'.

 

[johncrossley]

If you have an off peak or anytime ticket yes as is always the case with those tickets unless they specifiy a TOC. No ticket acceptance for advances or any ticket that states 'LNER only'.

I'm planning to get an Advance with Grand Central. I'm wondering whether it is safe to travel with them, or are they prone to cancellation? Otherwise I will have to drive.

 

[dk1]

Are Grand Central trains OK to use during the forthcoming overtime ban, as an alternative to LNER?

There will be no special ticket acceptance. Just the normal anytime tickets.

 

[800001]

Cancelling both the 16:45 and 17:15 departures from Leeds isn’t a good look. I don’t want to imagine how cosy the Mark 4 set on the 17:45 will be!

The last southbound from Edinburgh to London is cancelled too - published travel advice tells people to get the 18:30, with no mention of any arrangements for those who are unable to travel an hour earlier.

Also from the published list of cancellations something isn’t quite adding up to me. The 15:06 Kings Cross - York is cancelled but not the 18:02 return, and likewise the 16:03 York - Kings Cross is cancelled but not the outbound from Kings Cross at 13:06. So is the set from the 13:06 ex Kings Cross going to occupy P6 at York for two and a half hours to work the 18:02? Can’t see Network Rail or Northern being terribly happy with that!


Indeed. It’s worrying. The sooner the DFT stop sitting on their hands and start sorting things out the better, whether that be by sorting it out themselves or allowing the TOCs to do what’s required to sort things out.

Advice for the cancelled 1929 from Edinburgh

Customers are also able to use their existing tickets at no extra cost on the 19:58 LUMO Service from Edinburgh to London Kings Cross, which calls at Morpeth, Newcastle, Stevenage, and London Kings Cross. Customers are also able to join at these stations to complete their journey.



Customers are also able to use their existing tickets at no extra cost on the 19:59 CrossCountry Service from Edinburgh to York, which calls at Dunbar, Berwick-upon-Tweed, Alnmouth, Newcastle, Durham, Darlington, and York. Customers are also able to join at these stations to complete their journey.

Customers due to join at Northallerton are encouraged to join the earlier service at 20:58 South.

Rail Replacement is currently being sourced south of York and will be updated once confirmed.

I wouldn’t like to be turning up at York stations south of there and finding out an in a taxi or a mini bus

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Advice for the cancelled 1929 from Edinburgh

Customers are also able to use their existing tickets at no extra cost on the 19:58 LUMO Service from Edinburgh to London Kings Cross, which calls at Morpeth, Newcastle, Stevenage, and London Kings Cross. Customers are also able to join at these stations to complete their journey.

Rather gracious of LUMO to allow LNER customers aboard following a cancellation, seeing as it never seems to work the other way.

 

[johncrossley]

Rather gracious of LUMO to allow LNER customers aboard following a cancellation, seeing as it never seems to work the other way.

Is that to do with LNER paying Lumo to carry those passengers? Maybe Lumo don't pay LNER?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Is that to do with LNER paying Lumo to carry those passengers? Maybe Lumo don't pay LNER?

I'm not sure. Perhaps it's due to the typical higher fares of LNER and the fact Lumo is the budget product.

 

[800001]

Rather gracious of LUMO to allow LNER customers aboard following a cancellation, seeing as it never seems to work the other way.

It works the other way plenty of times!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It works the other way plenty of times!

Then the media has done your TOC an injustice, as all I ever see is reports of how Lumo passengers are stranded because of LNER refusing travel and Lumo's appalling frequency meaning the next one is either five hours away or tomorrow.

 

[800001]

Then the media has done your TOC an injustice, as all I ever see is reports of how Lumo passengers are stranded because of LNER refusing travel and Lumo's appalling frequency meaning the next one is either five hours away or tomorrow.

It happens, a request goes in, each is taken and decided on an individual basis!
I would say LNER accepts more customers of other TOCs then they do accepting LNER!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It happens, a request goes in, each is taken and decided on an individual basis!
I would say LNER accepts more customers of other TOCs then they do accepting LNER!

That's good then. I won't deny they seem to have better ticket acceptance policies than Avanti. It takes a lot for them to accept LNER customers when the ECML is messed up - I'll never forget how they accepted Scotland passengers to Manchester only, then shoved them onto TPE rather than allowing them on Glasgows.

During this period of increasingly shocking unreliability, I'm rather irritated to see the Middlesbrough remains booked to run. Surely this is probably the most pointless service on the network currently.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

During this period of increasingly shocking unreliability, I'm rather irritated to see the Middlesbrough remains booked to run. Surely this is probably the most pointless service on the network currently.

If you don’t run the oddities you soon start to loose route knowledge which then adds further issues when you try and bring it back in.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If you don’t run the oddities you soon start to loose route knowledge which then adds further issues when you try and bring it back in.

If the DfT are making mass cuts to rolling stock, and passenger levels are as down on the network as you often insist they are (and I know you're remarkably well-informed, so I don't doubt it in the slightest I should add ) then I wonder if the oddities should even be upheld long term, especially if route knowledge is mandating LNER to use up valuable staff and stock on them when there's a shortage. It's no secret most Harrogates and the Bradford & Skiptons rarely make it past Leeds.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

If the DfT are making mass cuts to rolling stock, and passenger levels are as down on the network as you often insist they are (and I know you're remarkably well-informed, so I don't doubt it in the slightest I should add ) then I wonder if the oddities should even be upheld long term, especially if route knowledge is mandating LNER to use up valuable staff and stock on them when there's a shortage. It's no secret most Harrogates and the Bradford & Skiptons rarely make it past Leeds.

The problem is till they decide these oddities should no longer be served the industry has to try and keep its route knowledge up.

 

[43066]

That's good then. I won't deny they seem to have better ticket acceptance policies than Avanti. It takes a lot for them to accept LNER customers when the ECML is messed up -

Although whether that really is a better policy probably depends on whether you ask an LNER or an Avanti passenger!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The problem is till they decide these oddities should no longer be served the industry has to try and keep its route knowledge up.

Yes. I'm not necessarily criticising LNER, more the irony of the DfT wanting to reduce services on core routes and withdraw stock that serves these core routes, yet mandating skeleton services remain as they are.

 

[43066]

It works the other way plenty of times!

And why should ticket acceptance be expected as an automatic right, really? If passengers can be accommodated then fine, but why should LNER’s passengers be made to suffer overcrowding and being unable to get a seat just because LUMO have cancelled a train?

My own operator has declined ticket acceptance on occasion for precisely this reason.

 

[TheBigD]

During this period of increasingly shocking unreliability, I'm rather irritated to see the Middlesbrough remains booked to run. Surely this is probably the most pointless service on the network currently.

If you don’t run the oddities you soon start to loose route knowledge which then adds further issues when you try and bring it back in.

ECS for the Middlesbrough service comes down the Durham Coast line. Keeps Newcastle crews diversionary route knowledge up. LNER and it predecessors had to run 67s on route learning trips over it before diversions previously.

And should the proposed extra services start then Middlesborough is planned to have a 2 hourly service to London (assuming the plans haven't changed).

Don't know about the morning up service loads, which gets overtaken by a Grand Central Sunderland service, but the afternoon service has a decent load on it from London.

If you want to go through the requests on whatdotheyknow website someone has requested the figures fir the service.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

And why should ticket acceptance be expected as an automatic right, really? If passengers can be accommodated then fine, but why should LNER’s passengers be made to suffer overcrowding and being unable to get a seat just because LUMO have cancelled a train?

I agree to some extent. My initial comment was based on the fact it seemed to be one-way acceptance, but if it isn't there's no issue.

My own operator has declined ticket acceptance on occasion for precisely this reason.

I was grateful to have been permitted by them to use them in place of Avanti West Coast once, via a rather convoluted route involving a very unhappy CrossCountry (who didn't want me travelling with them Birmingham to Derby) when the WCML closed down in 2020. Wouldn't have had to pay for first class food with Avanti though

 

[skyhigh]

It's no secret most Harrogates and the Bradford & Skiptons rarely make it past Leeds.

Sorry, most Harrogate, Bradford and Skipton trains rarely make it past Leeds? That's complete hyperbole. Looking back over the past week there is a handful of cancellations (some part, some full) but nowhere near most trains!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Sorry, most Harrogate, Bradford and Skipton trains rarely make it past Leeds? That's complete hyperbole. Looking back over the past week there is a handful of cancellations (some part, some full) but nowhere near most trains!

Alright then, rephrase it to on most days, Harrogate, Bradford and Skipton do not see all of their booked services. And when they only get a handful a day that is saying something.

 

[dk1]

Sorry, most Harrogate, Bradford and Skipton trains rarely make it past Leeds? That's complete hyperbole. Looking back over the past week there is a handful of cancellations (some part, some full) but nowhere near most trains!

I never understand why people word it like they do as if to make a point when checking out the stats prove otherwise.

 

[43066]

I was grateful to have been permitted by them to use them in place of Avanti West Coast via a rather convoluted route involving a very unhappy CrossCountry (who didn't want me travelling with them Birmingham to Derby) when the WCML closed down in 2020. Wouldn't have had to pay for first class food with Avanti though

Cross country do seem to have some strange attitudes to this kind of thing! Of course TOCs should accommodate passengers where possible.

There were issues where I am a few months back, with the WCML being closed and buses to Rugby being provided from (IIRC) Kettering. The WCML passengers all crammed onto our Sheffield trains, for the TPE connection to Manchester, which ended up crush loaded, rather than using the half empty 360s. Who can blame them really - but it was poorly managed.

 

[TheBigD]

Just to add to the lumo vs LNER ticket acceptance for this evening. Having used the 1936 from Edinburgh a few times, and observed the 1958 as it overtakes at Doncaster I doubt very much that the 394 seats on the Lumo service will be over subscribed.