Liz Truss and the Conservative Party.

[najaB]

Oh well we got the diverse, reflective of the UK cabinet that we always aspired to......I thought that was what really mattered as opposed to ability. 'Positive' discrimination and all that?

It seemed to me that the diversity of the cabinet was less to do with Liz being a SJW than it did with who she considered loyal. It just so happened that they were, a bit like her, the 'outcasts' of the Tory party.

 

[Busaholic]

Maybe Kwarteng will be sacrificed by Truss ('announcing his resignation, which is accepted', rather) which, of course, would only keep her safe for a couple of weeks. Coffey didn't deny the suggestion on 'Good Morning Britain' that benefits will be increased in line with inflation, which is something, I suppose.

Apologies for getting it slightly wrong on Tuesday - should have recognised that Kwarteng as an Old Etonian would no more take responsibility than that prize a*rse JRM.

 

[bspahh]

I'm deeply uncomfortable about the idea of the UK apparently being governed by unelected markets rather than elected politicians. That's not a party political point - the same issue rose its head at the prospect of a Corbyn government, with dire warnings then of a 'run on the pound'. Politicians have to be able to push through the policies they believe to be in the interest of the country, not just the markets, but it seems that's no longer possible.

I'm deeply unconfortable about the idea of the UK apparently being governed by unelected forces like gravity rather than elected politicians. Politicians have to be able to push through the policies they believe to be in the interest of the country, not physics, but it seems that's no longer possible.

 

[najaB]

I'm deeply unconfortable abouth the idea of the UK apparently being governed by unelected forces like gravity rather than elected politicians.

'Gravity' is another example of the orthodox way of thinking that is holding the UK back. Now that we are free of the imposition of rules from Brussels we can implement new demand-side, trickle down policies. By reducing the downward force on those at the top everyone will be able to rise.

 

[GS250]

I'm deeply unconfortable abouth the idea of the UK apparently being governed by unelected forces like gravity rather than elected politicians. Politicians have to be able to push through the policies they believe to be in the interest of the country, not physics, but it seems that's no longer possible.

I suppose this is partly due to 'globalisation' and the transfer or wealth and power to the technocracy. A natural occurrence as life evolves. I'm still not entirely sure just how much power an average Western government actually has anymore...

 

[MikeWM]

I think it's more the undemocratic wat these policies are being implemented. If the Tories want to trash the economy with a poorly thought out plan, they should have the decency to get a mandate for it.

They already 'trashed the economy with a poorly thought out plan' in March 2020. Almost everything since is fallout.

And what exactly is undemocratic about elected members holding the unelected executive (at least as an executive) to account ?

They literally just went through a leadership process, which is what they've previously agreed is 'democratic' in terms of the party they've decided to be a member of. If they don't like it they should change the process, not attack the result so quickly.

Of course, we know they don't think that, else they wouldn't have got rid of Johnson mere weeks after he survived a confidence vote (or, indeed, Theresa May). Most of these problems are due to the fact that they still don't really know *why* they got rid of Johnson, they just got caught up in hysteria that seems to be getting worse and worse.

--

They're not preventing the policies from being enacted, but they are applying consequences to those policies.

Just because the Government says their financial plans are great and will cause no negative effects does not mean the rest of the world has to agree with them. If the Government want to keep these policies, only the electorate can stop them, but that doesn't mean that they won't have to deal with the consequences of those policies.

If the Government had an electoral mandate for this budget then they would not be sacking people or u-turning element by element.

Do the markets really want higher corporation tax? I can't say I've ever heard that before.

As I've pointed out a number of times, this Government has far more of a mandate for this budget than the 2021 budget, which broke one of their main manifesto commitments.

--

I'm reminded of Paul Bettany's speech in the film Margin Call about people wanting the benefits offered by the Banking system, but not to accept the consequences when the assumptions the whole system is built on collapse.
If the UK wanted it could provide pensions generous enough that no-one needed a private pension, mortgages backed by the government, and industrial investment support for any business that needed it. They don't though - they want "the markets" to provide it.

Do they? Do they understand the consequences of that decision? After the disaster of 2008, were we asked if we'd like to try a different path?

There is also literally no reason why banks could not provide the things you mention without the 'casino' elements that are the main interests of modern banking. That requires proper regulation though, which no-one is willing to do, and probably isn't possible anyway because they are global institutions. Another thing we have effectively no control over. That's why we end up fiddling at the margins with things we can control but don't really matter, such as banker bonuses.

The IMF is run a a day to day basis by a 24 person executive council, one member of which is appointed by the British Government. The BIS is similar.
They're only unelected if you if apply the definition used by Brexit supporters, which seems to be that democracy doesn't count if it isn't British people doing the voting(or that everyone has to be directly elected, in which case Kwasi Kwarteng is/was unelected too).

They affect my life. I have literally no power to change their policies. Yes, that's pretty much the definition of undemocratic in my book.

 

[Purple Train]

Kwarteng implying he was sacked, Truss saying he chose to resign. This is farcical.

 

[dosxuk]

Do the markets really want higher corporation tax? I can't say I've ever heard that before.

The markets don't want a bunch of uncosted tax cuts, with zero independent oversight and them getting the blame for every potential negative.

If the PM/Chancellor had presented their plans with a full (or even a draft) economic plan and independent backing and analysis, none of this would have happened. That they then went on the attack and told the markets that everything was their fault and nothing to do with these amazing magic money tree's they'd just discovered just exacerbated the fear and worries that the markets had.

It took nearly two weeks for the chancellor to accept that he would have to present some sort of plan to explain how they were going to afford all these plans. And then he said he wasn't going to do that presentation for another few weeks. If that sort of behaviour from any policy maker doesn't alarm you, then you're a braver person than I. It just smacks of the student going "I've definitely done my homework, but I can't show you it until next week".

 

[SuspectUsual]

One of the worst press conferences ever. Only took three or four questions, and parroted the same answer for all of them. Worse than the Maybot.

 

[MikeWM]

Meanwhile, here's the new 'moderate'/'competent' chancellor of the exchequer, in 2018:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...eaking-money-laundering-laws-seven-flats.html

Inquiry launched into Jeremy Hunt after he admitted breaking money-laundering laws on seven flats he purchased from a Tory donor

An inquiry has been launched into Jeremy Hunt after he admitted breaking money-laundering laws on seven flats he bought from a Tory donor.

And it was claimed last night that the Health Secretary had received a ‘bulk discount’ in his deal with the property developer, who is said to be a ‘long-standing acquaintance’.

Last week it emerged that Mr Hunt had set up a company in September, Mare Pond Properties, to buy the luxury seaside flats in a block in Southampton, but failed to register it with Companies House – an offence under money-laundering legislation that can lead to up to two years in prison.

which he then forgot about a few months later

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/jeremy-hunt-broke-anti-money-laundering-laws

Jeremy Hunt Has Remembered That He Broke Anti–Money Laundering Laws Last Year

On Monday morning, Jeremy Hunt was asked at the launch of his campaign for the Conservative leadership whether he had ever broken the criminal law. “I’m just really racking my brain at the moment,” the foreign secretary replied, “but the answer is no.”

Just five hours later, however, Hunt was forced to clarify that response when he acknowledged to BuzzFeed News that he had in fact breached his own government’s anti–money laundering laws last year.

I'm not going to even bother posting the videos where he praises China's zero-Covid approach and called for people to be taken from their homes and put in quarantine camps, or when he was going to make *flu* vaccinations mandatory for NHS staff, because I think we already know about all that.

Who voted for this? Not even the 160,000 party members.

 

[DC1989]

At least Brexit is going well though

 

[jfollows]

One of the worst press conferences ever. Only took three or four questions, and parroted the same answer for all of them. Worse than the Maybot.

"Even for Liz Truss, that was shockingly bad" quoted by Beth Rigby on Sky just now of an unnamed Conservative MP. I agree. Beth Rigby had earlier observed that the point of the press conference was, in part, for Liz Truss to demonstrate that she was capable of being prime minister and taking difficult decisions, and in that she failed I think. By a long way.

 

[MikeWM]

Until today I thought the idea of Johnson coming back as PM, and soon, was a bit of a silly conspiracy theory. But now, I'm starting to think it possible, maybe even quite likely...

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

One of the worst press conferences ever. Only took three or four questions, and parroted the same answer for all of them. Worse than the Maybot.

That was shocking and she scarpered having gone to the DT for help didn't get it then The Sun didn't get it BBC not much help and Peston just pouring fuel on the fire she knew the rest of them weren't going to improve so exit stage right.

The men in grey suits will be working overtime to get her shifted out pronto

 

[SuspectUsual]

Has anyone got a running total for u-turns since Truss became prime minister?

 

[nlogax]

That was absolutely dreadful. She's tone deaf to everything. Conservative members were warned she'd be awful.. and here we are.

 

[SuspectUsual]

She said she always acts in the national interest. Presumably she’ll now resign then

 

[brad465]

Looks like this thread will have to close much sooner than expected.

 

[najaB]

You have asked me to stand aside as your chancellor. I have accepted.

I deeply respect the decision you have taken today. You have put the national interest first.

Hmm... something doesn't seem right here.

Kwasi Kwarteng's letter to Liz Truss and her reply

The MP is sacked as chancellor just weeks after his mini-budget plans led to economic turmoil.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[MikeWM]

Oh well, I thought she might turn out ok, but looking back at what I said at the start of the leadership contest:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-and-subsequent-reshuffle.234267/post-5750888

Truss has had a really odd performance over the past few months - you'd think foreign secretary would be a big public role when there is a European war happening, but she seems to have left pretty much everything to Ben Wallace. That rings alarm bells.

I guess I should have stuck with my first instinct. She's annoyed literally everybody now, which almost certainly means she's a goner.

 

[david1212]

Today's news means we'll have our fourth Chancellor in four months, against the backdrop of a cost of living crisis. Is this the 'strong and stable' government the Tory party claimed to offer?

No

Until today I thought the idea of Johnson coming back as PM, and soon, was a bit of a silly conspiracy theory. But now, I'm starting to think it possible, maybe even quite likely...

Slightly ahead I thought this a couple of days ago.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

That was absolutely dreadful. She's tone deaf to everything. Conservative members were warned she'd be awful.. and here we are.

Err same conservative members that voted for her...

They get what they deserve and she is finished with the Tories next move to put Hunt in

 

[TheEdge]

I'm delighted we didn't get that Coalition of Chaos in 2015. Everything has been so stable.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Hmm... something doesn't seem right here

Is she not saying she respects his decision to do as he was told and resign?

 

[GS250]

Err same conservative members that voted for her...

They get what they deserve and she is finished with the Tories next move to put Hunt in

The Tory members wanted Boris to stay. Failing that Mordaunt as PM.

They were given the choice between Sunak and Truss.

There is a big divide between the Tory membership and its MP's.

The losers are the electorate......

 

[Mojo]

Err same conservative members that voted for her...

They get what they deserve and she is finished with the Tories next move to put Hunt in

I feel sick at the thought of this. His views surrounding restrictions regarding Coronavirus are downright scary.

 

[brad465]

I'm delighted we didn't get that Coalition of Chaos in 2015. Everything has been so stable.

Enter the man himself:

https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband/status/1580931307185401856

(No text, just a clown emoji while quote tweet Cameron's "Chaos with Ed Miliband tweet")

 

[87electric]

Has anyone got a running total for u-turns since Truss became prime minister?

My footie team, Watford, are due a new manager. I don't think they are aware of the U-TURN defensive tactic yet.

 

[jfollows]

Various reporters (see https://www.theguardian.com/politic...et-liz-truss-corporation-tax-uk-politics-live) are all individually reporting receiving the same message from Conservative MPs - that the "press conference" in which four questions were not answered was a disaster and that Truss was robotic and scared. "Can she last the weekend?" "She will be gone in weeks if not days" reportedly from moderate MPs. "significantly harsher than when Boris Johnson appeared to have misled folk about Chris Pincher" "car crash" "she's a goner" etc.

One key point of the "press conference" was to reassure her MPs, of course as well as financial markets, and I think she failed in the latter as well as the former.

 

[Gloster]

‘History repeats itself: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce.’ Marx (*), abridged and based on Hegel.

* - Karl, not Groucho.