Avanti West Coast cancellations

[Mag_seven]

Maybe its time the Scottish Government got involved as this must be damaging the Scottish tourism industry.

 

[Birmingham]

Due to the Commonwealth Games, there will be two trains per hour to Birmingham over the next two weekends, and only one train per hour to Manchester.

Ouch. Wasn’t this going to be 3tph Birmingham and 2tph Manchester?

 

[londonmidland]

1M12 1131 Glasgow Central to London Euston left just under an hour late due to awaiting train crew. At this point I’m wondering if it’ll make it all the way through to London…

Track the train here

 

[duncanp]

Ouch. Wasn’t this going to be 3tph Birmingham and 2tph Manchester?

I think that was the original plan before the "reduced" timetable comes into effect, but this is what it says on the Avanti West Coast website

The timetable will be adjusted on the weekends of 30-31 July and 3-4 August due to the Commonwealth Games, whereby Birmingham will have two trains per hour and Manchester will have one.

Any cancellations on the London to Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow routes will lead to people try to get on the Birmingham services, hoping to catch onward connections at Birmingham New Street.

 

[M&NEJ]

1M12 1131 Glasgow Central to London Euston left just under an hour late due to awaiting train crew. At this point I’m wondering if it’ll make it all the way through to London…

Track the train here

Sorry if my knowledge is lacking here, but just for my education and in case it's worth making this point:-

If Avanti delay their own service do they pay a lateness penalty?

And is the reason recorded in formal statistics (delay because of waiting for staff)?

Thank you.

 

[172101]

And to complete the list for today as it stands now!

1M12 OK
1M13 OK
1M14 Cape
1M15 OK
1M16 Runs GLC-PRE only
1M17 Cape
1M18 Runs GLC-PRE only
9M19 OK

All from EDB both 9M50 & 9M52 Cape

Thats only 6 departures from GLC today and only 5 going all the way to EUS
Also 1M06 & 1M09 were both full and standing leaving GLC so not a lot of hope for many wanting to board onroute!

Plus most of todays afternoon/Late down services will have to be cancelled or cut short at Preston as there won't be anywhere to stable them. Polmadie already has enough sets for the Sunday service.
These are aready knocked out, with no dout more to follow!
9S85 Term at WVH
1S82 CAPE
9P93 Term PRE
1S95 CAPE

 

[Howardh]

Has Schapps had anything to say about this? A a side issue has anyone questioned the Tory candidates about the state of the railways - TPE and Avanti in particular?

 

[Haddiscoe]

Can confirm it's complete chaos at Crewe and Preston, Staff very little idea what is going on. 2 Trains worth of cancelled glasgow passengers trying to get on one Edinburgh train. All very unpleasant.

 

[317 forever]

During the Commonwealth Games weekend, are any Avanti trains continuing to Wolverhampton?

I shall be in the area next Saturday and am bracing myself for precious few trains between Birmingham and Wolverhampton.

 

[duncanp]

Can confirm it's complete chaos at Crewe and Preston, Staff very little idea what is going on. 2 Trains worth of cancelled glasgow passengers trying to get on one Edinburgh train. All very unpleasant.

If the staff have very little idea of what is going on, there is even less chance of the passengers finding out.

Someone at Avanti management needs to get a grip on this, and the government needs to give them a kick up the ****.

We get that there are staffing issues leading to a reduced timetable, but that is no excuse for providing little or no information.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jul 2022 ==

During the Commonwealth Games weekend, are any Avanti trains continuing to Wolverhampton?

I shall be in the area next Saturday and am bracing myself for precious few trains between Birmingham and Wolverhampton.

The timetable is "...not yet confirmed", so no one knows, least of all the management at Avanti.

 

[Palmyra.]

As someone who has their family in Scotland but lives in london and travels frequently I can honestly say that Avanti is an absolute disgrace

My parents were visiting last week and got home at 1am after leaving london Euston at 1:30pm, poor service and zero updates the entire time without a clue what was happening and when

Today I had a friend visiting me from Scotland and the train was cancelled and now she is unable to come at all as she was told all the other trains are full. I have multiple reservations for things in london this weekend and now going to have to try and cancel it all and hope I don’t get charged.

It is an absolute disgrace that they can get away with this and their staff and customer service teams are awful with a don’t give a crap attitude. It also had a wider impact on the economy due to cancelled plans and people no longer spending the money they intended to.

This change to premium economy and getting rid of most of first class is also a load of crap as it makes the first class experience crammed and not what you pay for

Something needs to be done and fast.

 

[TheHovisKid]

This change to premium economy and getting rid of most of first class is also a load of crap as it makes the first class experience crammed and not what you pay for

To be clear, you're objecting to other FC ticket holders sitting in a FC seat in a FC coach, to the seating capacity of that vehicle?

There's an easy solution to that. Buy 12 tickets and reserve the surrounding seats and you've got your own little bubble.
No?
Then you're not paying for that experience!

Would you have objected to a six seat compartment containing six people, back in the day? A 49 seat bus carrying people in all 49 seats?

At least you don't generally have to stand in FC, eh?

 

[Palmyra.]

To be clear, you're objecting to other FC ticket holders sitting in a FC seat in a FC coach, to the seating capacity of that vehicle?

There's an easy solution to that. Buy 12 tickets and reserve the surrounding seats and you've got your own little bubble.
No?
Then you're not paying for that experience!

Would you have objected to a six seat compartment continuing six people, back in the day? A 49 seat bus carrying people in all 49 seats?

At least you don't generally have to stand in FC, eh?

Yawn. They now shove all of first class in a half crammed carriage where the staff also sit and there is no space some people booking this don’t know that is what they are receiving in advance.

The Avanti staff themselves also said it is a shambles, so do continue to patronise with your garbage if you like but I couldn’t care less.

 

[XAM2175]

Today I had a friend visiting me from Scotland and the train was cancelled and now she is unable to come at all as she was told all the other trains are full. I have multiple reservations for things in london this weekend and now going to have to try and cancel it all and hope I don’t get charged.

They are entitled to travel regardless, if they don't already know this.

 

[Agent_Squash]

Yawn. They now shove all of first class in a half crammed carriage where the staff also sit and there is no space some people booking this don’t know that is what they are receiving in advance.

The Avanti staff themselves also said it is a shambles, so do continue to patronise with your garbage if you like but I couldn’t care less.

I travelled first on Avanti a few weeks ago and there was two of us from New Street to Preston. SP was bustling.

 

[Palmyra.]

They are entitled to travel regardless, if they don't already know this.

They were told at 7:30 there was no train they could get on until maybe 12:30 do you expect them to stay in the station for 5 hours?

 

[td97]

As someone who has their family in Scotland but lives in london

LNER run a daily service between Kings Cross and Glasgow Central (southbound only on Saturday, northbound only on Sunday), which must surely be a better option. Although the journey time is 1hr10 longer, Avanti's current level of cancellations mean it will probably be quicker and more reliable most days.

 

[Palmyra.]

LNER run a daily service between Kings Cross and Glasgow Central (southbound only on Saturday, northbound only on Sunday), which must surely be a better option. Although the journey time is 1hr10 longer, Avanti's current level of cancellations mean it will probably be quicker and more reliable most days.

Yeah will be using that moving forward. Avanti are just a disgrace at this point, tickets were not transferable to LNER today anyway so weekend ruined unfortunately

 

[Johnny Lewis]

Now that XC have all but given up serving Glasgow, it's a shame that LNER can't once again run every two hours between London King's Cross and Glasgow Central. People seem happy enough that, under normal circumstances, Avanti run every two hours between London Euston and Edinburgh, so why not the return of a regular LNER service to and from Glasgow Central?

 

[XAM2175]

They were told at 7:30 there was no train they could get on until maybe 12:30 do you expect them to stay in the station for 5 hours?

Yeah will be using that moving forward. Avanti are just a disgrace at this point, tickets were not transferable to LNER today anyway so weekend ruined unfortunately

Were they told that all the trains before 12:30 were "full" or that they weren't running at all? I absolutely agree that Avanti are letting down a great many people, but I ask because it saddens me that people are having to abandon travel plans that could be salvaged for want of knowledge of the passenger's rights (a lack that also lies to a significant extent at the feet of Avanti and other TOCs).

If there were other trains before 12:30-ish but they were "full", Avanti were wrong to suggest that your friend couldn't attempt to board anyway. It might have left your friend standing in the vestibule for some or all of the journey, but they might have been prepared to accept that rather than abandoning the trip.

Additionally, once it became apparent that your friend's arrival in London would be delayed by more than hour, they were entitled to request that Avanti re-route them "under comparable transport conditions, to the final destination at the earliest opportunity"; which in this particular case would almost certainly have been via Edinburgh for an LNER or Lumo service.

 

[TheHovisKid]

Yawn. They now shove all of first class in a half crammed carriage where the staff also sit and there is no space some people booking this don’t know that is what they are receiving in advance.

The Avanti staff themselves also said it is a shambles, so do continue to patronise with your garbage if you like but I couldn’t care less.

So all the FC people are on one carriage?

But only a half crammed carriage? That's ok. Or half a crammed carriage? That's ok too, at that point. You can't complain if every seat is occupied, only if there are more people than seats.

So, every seat is full- is that not allowed? What are they in breach if?

Do they have to tell you in advance someone may sit within 6 feet of you? Why should they?

Should there be a certain number of seats free to keep you happy? How many? But what if people sit in them? Do you need more empty seats? Is it in the T&C's?
Or do you just mean you don't want anyone sitting with you, and you resent that? Can't imagine there's a big walk-on demand in FC other than seasons, but you face the same standard there, so not really relevant.

I'm not patronising you with garbage, I'm merely picking holes in you petulant outburst. But if you couldn't care less, you clearly know that already.

Maybe, if you clarified what, in relation to the journey, you're actually complaining about and, say, on what grounds you'd justify compensation on the grounds of not getting the service advertised (which doesn't include a bay if 2/4 to yourself) and what it is you've not received, in the specific context of changes in the layout of the train....?

 

[duncanp]

This change to premium economy and getting rid of most of first class is also a load of crap as it makes the first class experience crammed and not what you pay for

One of the problems I have with Premium Economy is that the only tickets valid in this section are Advance ones.

There is no "Premium Economy Return" (either Anytime or Off Peak) that would give you the flexibility of a choice of trains.

For many people this is an important consideration, and I appreciate this on leisure trips from Birmingham to London.

It is rather like when Eurostar downgraded "Leisure Select" to "Standard Premier". A reduction in service without a commensurate reduction in price.

 

[TheHovisKid]

It is rather like when Eurostar downgraded "Leisure Select" to "Standard Premier". A reduction in service without a commensurate reduction in price.

Isn't it cheaper than 1st?

 

[duncanp]

Isn't it cheaper than 1st?

Standard Premium is cheaper than First Class on Avanti, but the point I was making was that the reduction in price (for me at least) is not worth the lack of flexibility when using Standard Premium.

Avanti have also got rid of Weekend First upgrades, which I found very useful.

Since Avanti took over from Virgin Trains, everything about the service has gone downhill. (eg. frequency, reliability, ticketing arrangements and choice)

 

[TheHovisKid]

Standard Premium is cheaper than First Class on Avanti, but the point I was making was that the reduction in price (for me at least) is not worth the lack of flexibility when using Standard Premium.

Avanti have also got rid of Weekend First upgrades, which I found very useful.

Since Avanti took over from Virgin Trains, everything about the service has gone downhill. (eg. frequency, reliability, ticketing arrangements and choice)

There's an element of personal choice in the decision then? You can still pay the same price and still get the FC service?

I don't think it's entirely fair to bring in the loss of a concession to the standard rate like weekend first where that's not part of the franchise, in the same way that you can't complain if your packet if biscuits had 25% free last week but not this week? Although we might miss the loss, presumably they no longer need it.

Avanti are shocking, though, at actually running trains in general, but if we're going to best them with a big stick...... The two comments I've replied to have both been where someone has get the service they chose to pay for?

 

[Palmyra.]

Were they told that all the trains before 12:30 were "full" or that they weren't running at all? I absolutely agree that Avanti are letting down a great many people, but I ask because it saddens me that people are having to abandon travel plans that could be salvaged for want of knowledge of the passenger's rights (a lack that also lies to a significant extent at the feet of Avanti and other TOCs).

If there were other trains before 12:30-ish but they were "full", Avanti were wrong to suggest that your friend couldn't attempt to board anyway. It might have left your friend standing in the vestibule for some or all of the journey, but they might have been prepared to accept that rather than abandoning the trip.

Additionally, once it became apparent that your friend's arrival in London would be delayed by more than hour, they were entitled to request that Avanti re-route them "under comparable transport conditions, to the final destination at the earliest opportunity"; which in this particular case would almost certainly have been via Edinburgh for an LNER or Lumo service.

As far as I am aware there were other trains cancelled before half 12 and they were not letting anyone else on the 8:30 as every ticket was sold for that and the queue was already full with excess passengers waiting to get on so the first train that she was able to get on was the 12:30 and there was then no guarantee that she would have been able to get on that either so no sane person is going to stand in a station from 7am - 12:30pm on the maybe that they will get on a train.

She will get fully reimbursed for her ticket anyway given they cancelled

She was told that they weren’t allowed to travel on another route either.

I have checked and none of the above of what you stated was explained to her at the station

 

[voyagerdude220]

Apologies for being off topic (I'm pretending this is a general thread for Avanti themed moans)
as I didn't feel this to warrants its own thread:

I've noticed looking at fares between Crewe and Edinburgh for travel mid September-

Standard Class often either £26/£42 single. Standard Premium on the same trains are consistently £110 Advance single- despite the option to buy the Standard Class ticket and upgrade for £25 onboard.

Drifting back on topic:

I've just sold a ticket for immediate travel from a Lancashire Station to London- usually the faster options connect into either Avanti trains at Manchester Picc or Wigan/Preston. Because Avanti trains are so heavily delayed today down the West Coast I've sent the chap via Leeds and also managed to save them around £20 for a single compared with the cost of an off peak single which I would have sold had they stuck with Avanti. Because of the delays on Avanti today journey time may even be slightly faster heading down the ECML.

 

[Birmingham]

One of the problems I have with Premium Economy is that the only tickets valid in this section are Advance ones.

There is no "Premium Economy Return" (either Anytime or Off Peak) that would give you the flexibility of a choice of trains.

For many people this is an important consideration, and I appreciate this on leisure trips from Birmingham to London.

In such cases you’d purchase the supplement to a Standard Class ticket on board. All the fares can be looked up at BRfares.com but it’s £15 for Birmingham to London.

 

[Watershed]

Now that XC have all but given up serving Glasgow, it's a shame that LNER can't once again run every two hours between London King's Cross and Glasgow Central. People seem happy enough that, under normal circumstances, Avanti run every two hours between London Euston and Edinburgh, so why not the return of a regular LNER service to and from Glasgow Central?

Their fleet isn't big enough to deliver a two hourly Glasgow service. The current service only works as it's a once a day extension, effectively running in 'marginal time'. Similarly to their Bradford, Skipton, Sunderland and Stirling services.

I don't think XC will ever be returning to their 2 hourly Glasgow service, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of other operators stepping in.

One of the problems I have with Premium Economy is that the only tickets valid in this section are Advance ones.

There is no "Premium Economy Return" (either Anytime or Off Peak) that would give you the flexibility of a choice of trains.

For many people this is an important consideration, and I appreciate this on leisure trips from Birmingham to London.

It is rather like when Eurostar downgraded "Leisure Select" to "Standard Premier". A reduction in service without a commensurate reduction in price.

Walkup tickets can be used with a Standard Premium upgrade. The only issue is that there is no guarantee the upgrade will be available - but then again, in a sense that is no different to the risk of First being full.

However Standard Premium nevertheless means you are effectively paying more than before for a poorer service, as there isn't any complimentary catering at all. I highly doubt that the dual SP/First model can be sustained in the long run; keeping catering crew onboard for only one or two coaches of First is highly wasteful.

The only people who win are those who are now able to take advantage of First Class seating for a reasonable price on weekdays.

 

[XAM2175]

As far as I am aware there were other trains cancelled before half 12 and they were not letting anyone else on the 8:30 as every ticket was sold for that and the queue was already full with excess passengers waiting to get on so the first train that she was able to get on was the 12:30 and there was then no guarantee that she would have been able to get on that either so no sane person is going to stand in a station from 7am - 12:30pm on the maybe that they will get on a train.

I accept this entirely. It's unfortunate, but not at all surprising, that your friend wasn't advised of their eligibility for re-routing.