Keir Starmer and the Labour Party

[Kite159]

What a lot of rubbish from Sir Beer's speech writer.

And how is he going to fund all these 'big' changes he is saying he will do. Print more money? Higher taxes to punish those who work hard to earn more money? (Same old labour, politics of envy)

 

[DarloRich]

What a lot of rubbish from Sir Beer's speech writer.

And how is he going to fund all these 'big' changes he is saying he will do. Print more money? Higher taxes to punish those who work hard to earn more money? (Same old labour, politics of envy)

That seems like the same old "critique" from people unable to think for themselves. Yawn.

I notice that the suggestion of removing the charitable status enjoyed by public schools is met with the same words. Do try harder. Please don't just copy the bigger boys.

 

[ainsworth74]

And how is he going to fund all these 'big' changes he is saying he will do. Print more money? Higher taxes to punish those who work hard to earn more money? (Same old labour, politics of envy)

Presumably the same way that all those PM hopefuls currently running for the Tory leadership will fund their tax cuts? After all they've promised to reduce government income by billions which means either savage cuts or they'll have to print more money...

 

[Phil56]

Presumably the same way that all those PM hopefuls currently running for the Tory leadership will fund their tax cuts? After all they've promised to reduce government income by billions which means either savage cuts or they'll have to print more money...

I think the rationale is tax cuts (especially for business) will help grow the economy by increasing productivity, and hopefully getting businesses to locate in this country rather than other low-tax countries, thus increasing the overall tax take.

Labour's rationale is to throw money at people in the hope of it circulating around a bit and collecting more tax (VAT, duty etc) as the money circulates.

Two very different concepts.

 

[Kite159]

That seems like the same old "critique" from people unable to think for themselves. Yawn.

I notice that the suggestion of removing the charitable status enjoyed by public schools is met with the same words. Do try harder. Please don't just copy the bigger boys.

No doubt Keir will be booted out by some within labour and replaced by Corbyn or Corbyn MK2 (Rebecca Long Bailey etc).

Are those the same public schools which labour MPs have made use of either for themselves when they were younger or by putting their kids there?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I notice that the suggestion of removing the charitable status enjoyed by public schools is met with the same words. Do try harder. Please don't just copy the bigger boys.

I don't get why some left-wingers are somehow offended by public schools and private healthcare. People paying for these are saving the State money.

Tax them more and save because they don't use public services? What's to lose? It's a bit like being offended because people don't use a food bank but instead shop at Waitrose.

If it's because some state schools are rubbish and so public school students get more opportunities, well, fix that. My state school was better regarded generally than the local public school. Every state school should be.

 

[Sorcerer]

Is it just me or does the question of "where's the money coming from?" only seem to apply to Labour? I mean I'm not here to debate the merits of HS2, but I've not once heard anyone ask about where the Tories are getting £100 billion to fund that project nor anything else. If I didn't know any better I'd say it was to perpetuate the myth that the Conservatives are somehow the experts on the economy.

I don't get why some left-wingers are somehow offended by public schools and private healthcare. People paying for these are saving the State money.

Tax them more and save because they don't use public services? What's to lose? It's a bit like being offended because people don't use a food bank but instead shop at Waitrose.

If it's because some state schools are rubbish and so public school students get more opportunities, well, fix that. My state school was better regarded generally than the local public school. Every state school should be.

That's the thing with a lot of socialists like Jeremy Corbyn. They don't so much love the poor more so that they just hate the rich.

 

[Gloster]

I went to a public school in the 1970s and even then there were mutterings about removing charitable status. However, it seemed to be quite clear that the schools knew that their status was a joke. Most of them only did a few bits and pieces so that they could point to them and claim that they justified the status. They are self-perpetuating businesses that have no interest in helping society at large.

 

[matacaster]

Latest speach by Starmer:

Video:

Text:

"Change is what my Labour Party will offer" – Starmer's speech in Gateshead - LabourList

Below is the full text of the speech delivered by Keir Starmer in Gateshead this morning: Good morning,…

labourlist.org

What a vacuous long-winded speech! Completely devoid of any follow through into practical costed proposals. Waste of space.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2022 ==

The Tory hopefuls have had a couple of days to come up with policies. Starmer has had a couple of years and his entire team working on this drivel.

 

[Busaholic]

I went to a public school in the 1970s and even then there were mutterings about removing charitable status. However, it seemed to be quite clear that the schools knew that their status was a joke. Most of them only did a few bits and pieces so that they could point to them and claim that they justified the status. They are self-perpetuating businesses that have no interest in helping society at large.

Hear! Hear! Remove their charitable status and bring them into the regulatory framework, including safeguarding. They've been the haven for weirdos and paedos for too long, as is known by their colleagues that don't fit into those categories but turn 'blind eyes.'

 

[43096]

They are self-perpetuating businesses that have no interest in helping society at large.

Much like private healthcare, they do have the benefit of reducing the burden on the state education system.

 

[The Ham]

Much like private healthcare, they do have the benefit of reducing the burden on the state education system.

Whilst a help, I would question how much about 7% of those in education (the number of children in private schools) would ultimately become if there was a significant cost implication brought in. For example a 30% fall would still leave about 5% being educated privately.

Whilst that would have some impact on the state schools, the overall impact would likely to be small. Especially given that some of the best state schools attract parent fund raising (I'm aware of one which averages over £40 per child per year and that's probably not even one of the best).

 

[Gloster]

It would be interesting to know how much the charitable status and other tax rules taken advantage of by public schools, if divided by pupils, compares to the amount provided per state pupil.

 

[brad465]

What a lot of rubbish from Sir Beer's speech writer.

And how is he going to fund all these 'big' changes he is saying he will do. Print more money? Higher taxes to punish those who work hard to earn more money? (Same old labour, politics of envy)

The Bank of England are the ones who decide how much money is in the economy, not the Government.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2022 ==

Latest speach by Starmer:

Video:

Text:

"Change is what my Labour Party will offer" – Starmer's speech in Gateshead - LabourList

Below is the full text of the speech delivered by Keir Starmer in Gateshead this morning: Good morning,…

labourlist.org

All well and good offering this stuff, but target voters are not going to listen to a 45 minute speech by any party leader of any colour. I would hope he puts key proposals out on leaflets where and when necessary, similar to Labour's 1997 election campaign.

 

[johnnychips]

I would hope he puts key proposals out on leaflets where and when necessary, similar to Labour's 1997 election campaign.

What’s a leaflet? Very 20th century, and any coming through my door are immediately recycled.

 

[edwin_m]

What’s a leaflet? Very 20th century, and any coming through my door are immediately recycled.

Many of the older people who are more likely to vote and to vote Tory don't "do" social media.

 

[LittleAH]

What a lot of rubbish from Sir Beer's speech writer.

And how is he going to fund all these 'big' changes he is saying he will do. Print more money? Higher taxes to punish those who work hard to earn more money? (Same old labour, politics of envy)

I fond your critique very much has the essence of Daily Mail. So let's get some things straight.

The Bank of England made the decision on quantitative easing all on their ownsome. Why? Because they are independent of government and have been since Gordon Brown became Chancellor in 1997.

Rishi Sunak is currently standing to be Tory leader on a manifesto of tax cuts, when he's been the Chancellor at a time when taxes were upped consistently. Including the damaging National Insurance rise. So I put it to you, why are the Conservatives hitting the working classes of this country with higher taxes, punishing those who work hard? Love to see an answer to that...

 

[Kite159]

I fond your critique very much has the essence of Daily Mail. So let's get some things straight.

The Bank of England made the decision on quantitative easing all on their ownsome. Why? Because they are independent of government and have been since Gordon Brown became Chancellor in 1997.

Rishi Sunak is currently standing to be Tory leader on a manifesto of tax cuts, when he's been the Chancellor at a time when taxes were upped consistently. Including the damaging National Insurance rise. So I put it to you, why are the Conservatives hitting the working classes of this country with higher taxes, punishing those who work hard? Love to see an answer to that...

The same national insurance rise which has seen the threshold increased this month meaning that people under around 30K a year will be paying less tax compared to before the increase? All that money wasted on covid related things (both good & bad) has to be paid for somehow.

Bit like Labour having to do an emergency backtrack to hike the personal allowance when they got rid of the 10% starting tax rate to reduce the 22% rate to 20%, which hit those on low incomes the most and only the negative media coverage forced Brown to do that U-turn (soon made up for it by increasing minimum wage by a pitiful amount)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The same national insurance rise which has seen the threshold increased this month meaning that people under around 30K a year will be paying less tax compared to before the increase? All that money wasted on covid related things (both good & bad) has to be paid for somehow.

Bit like Labour having to do an emergency backtrack to hike the personal allowance when they got rid of the 10% starting tax rate to reduce the 22% rate to 20%, which hit those on low incomes the most and only the negative media coverage forced Brown to do that U-turn (soon made up for it by increasing minimum wage by a pitiful amount)

Around the time of the 2000 millennium, was it not the case that the Labour Party decided a 75p per week increase in the state pension was sufficient?

 

[LittleAH]

The same national insurance rise which has seen the threshold increased this month meaning that people under around 30K a year will be paying less tax compared to before the increase? All that money wasted on covid related things (both good & bad) has to be paid for somehow.

Bit like Labour having to do an emergency backtrack to hike the personal allowance when they got rid of the 10% starting tax rate to reduce the 22% rate to 20%, which hit those on low incomes the most and only the negative media coverage forced Brown to do that U-turn (soon made up for it by increasing minimum wage by a pitiful amount)

Wait. Tax rises by the Tories are good. But by Labour are bad? Now don't tell me your vision is clouded by personal bias.

Speaking of national debt. It's more than tripled under the Tories. How are unfunded tax cuts going to help with that, as are being promised by the Tory candidates?

 

[Typhoon]

Of course, in days of yore, you always had Bessie Braddock as a woman of note.

Bessie Braddock. She'd have wiped the floor with most modern politicians. Saw off the Momentum and Militant of her day. I once heard her speak - this would have been probably the start of the sixties in South East London; I have no idea what she said but I know how she said it.

Anyone who knows nothing about her, 'BattleAxe' sums her up.

Other women of note off the top of my head - Beatrice Webb, Margaret Bondfield, Edith Summerskill, Susan Lawrence, Jennie Lee. (Ellen Wilkinson was a cabinet minister but I son't know what impact she had.)

 

[Kite159]

Wait. Tax rises by the Tories are good. But by Labour are bad? Now don't tell me your vision is clouded by personal bias.

Speaking of national debt. It's more than tripled under the Tories. How are unfunded tax cuts going to help with that, as are being promised by the Tory candidates?

Both parties are the same in having to do U-turns due to increased taxes for the lower paid.

The 'evil working class' hating tories have increased the personal allowance meaning those on low pay are paying less tax than before.

From 2010 it was £6,475, 2020 was £12,500
In comparison 2000 was £4,385. Yes it is now frozen but I suspect it might get unfrozen to help the cost of living.

So those on higher than average wages are paying more tax, isn't that a better way? You earn more money, you pay more tax.

 

[Yew]

What a lot of rubbish from Sir Beer's speech writer.

And how is he going to fund all these 'big' changes he is saying he will do. Print more money? Higher taxes to punish those who work hard to earn more money? (Same old labour, politics of envy)

Who exactly is 'Sir Beer"

 

[Acfb]

Faiza Shaheen selected to fight IDS's seat again which is interesting because I doubted if any left wing candidates would get selected again under Starmer's Labour to fight marginal seats.

Most of the newly selected Labour PPCs in marginal seats are soft left/centrist, defeated MPs in 2019 such as in Leigh/Bury North/Stoke Central or former MPs coming back such as Heidi Alexander in Swindon South.

https://twitter.com/tomorrowsmps/status/1550839194762756097

 

[Meole]

Who exactly is 'Sir Beer"

A child of privileged inheritance, unlike his opponents who fought their way up from humble origins.

 

[Busaholic]

Faiza Shaheen selected to fight IDS's seat again which is interesting because I doubted if any left wing candidates would get selected again under Starmer's Labour to fight marginal seats.

Most of the newly selected Labour PPCs in marginal seats are soft left/centrist, defeated MPs in 2019 such as in Leigh/Bury North/Stoke Central or former MPs coming back such as Heidi Alexander in Swindon South.

https://twitter.com/tomorrowsmps/status/1550839194762756097

If Faiza Shaheen is held in good repute by both her constituency association and the local populace then I can't see why that would militate (so to speak!) against her being reselected. She must stand a good chance of being elected next time, particularly if IDS's choice Truss gets the caretaker PM job.

 

[Acfb]

If Faiza Shaheen is held in good repute by both her constituency association and the local populace then I can't see why that would militate (so to speak!) against her being reselected. She must stand a good chance of being elected next time, particularly if IDS's choice Truss gets the caretaker PM job.

Just thought it was noteworthy TBH given Starmer and all the neighbouring Labour MPs were backing her opponent who stood in 2017. Clearly she ran a cross factional campaign. She apparently got exactly 50%+1.

I will be surprised if IDS does not stand down at the next election in order to avoid defeat.

 

[brad465]

Just thought it was noteworthy TBH given Starmer and all the neighbouring Labour MPs were backing her opponent who stood in 2017. Clearly she ran a cross factional campaign. She apparently got exactly 50%+1.

I will be surprised if IDS does not stand down at the next election in order to avoid defeat.

He might stand down anyway given he's had a long career in Parliament and served as both party leader and in Cabinet for 6 years, while he's had a relatively low profile since. He may well be able to get in the Lords too if he stands down as an MP.

 

[317 forever]

I was a Labour member from age 18 until a few years ago, I cancelled it when I realised I didn’t actually know their manifesto policy on most matters.

Ask a Labour MP what a woman is and watch them squirm, it shows how out of touch with the national mood they are.

Otherwise you can always ask Penny Mordaunt what a woman is.

 

[Busaholic]

He might stand down anyway given he's had a long career in Parliament and served as both party leader and in Cabinet for 6 years, while he's had a relatively low profile since. He may well be able to get in the Lords too if he stands down as an MP.

He might even feature in the Resignation Honours List, especially if Sunak gets the gig!