BBC reporting that Agency staff could cover strikes under law change

[cambsy]

The BBC, is reporting, that the government, is looking at repealing, a legal ban, so they can bring in legislation, to allow, the TOC’s etc, to bring in agency workers and temporary staff, in future strikes, beyond the June ones, so as to avoid disruption, as words seem to be escalating between the government and RMT,(im not good at links)its been reported on BBC news page. I think this good move, and that the government shouldn’t and wont give into the RMT demands. Im against the strikes on principle etc, as it will be very damaging for the railways, and they will shoot themselves in the foot.

 

[Unstoppable]

Rail strikes: Agency workers could be called in to replace striking workers, report says

It comes as the Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers' union prepares to strike on 21, 23, and 25 June in a dispute over pay and redundancies.

news.sky.com

Totally agree with this aspiration. The railway is run for the public. A certain amount of staff need to wake up and smell the coffee. It is about time someone stood up to these Unions who quite clearly bully and dictate to passengers when or if they can travel. Our rail system in the UK is a true embarrassment and the sooner these Unions are put in their place the better for the travelling public.

 

[Gems]

Yes okay. I'm sure many will bow down to this click bait and drool over it. Reality is different though isn't it. What you going to do, get on a train with a Mrs Mopp at the controls? You might get agency staff to clean up the vomit on the last animal pass out of a city, but that's where it ends.
Stop falling for this governments desperation to be seen to be doing something. All they are good for is creating a low wage economy that helps their friends, Foodbanks, and misery. What happened to Johnson's Brexit pledges of a high wage economy? Umm, yes right, it's Johnson isn't it, full of bluster, lies, and soundbites.

I mean I am not a RMT member, I have no intention of striking either, but the more of this guff Shapps comes out with the more likely I am to join in the fun. Get around the table, stop creating inflation led poverty, and stop playing to the uneducated masses.

 

[Buffer stop]

Are there many highly skilled agency staff sitting around who can Drive trains? If there were I'm sure they would be, well driving trains now. Good luck with this pipe dream.

 

[74A]

Obviously can't replace drivers with agency staff. However managers are often trained as guard / despatch cover which doesnt take very long. As RMT are the ones striking at the moment it's looks like something like this is more aimed at them.

 

[Gems]

Rail strikes: Agency workers could be called in to replace striking workers, report says

It comes as the Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers' union prepares to strike on 21, 23, and 25 June in a dispute over pay and redundancies.

news.sky.com

Totally agree with this aspiration. The railway is run for the public. A certain amount of staff need to wake up and smell the coffee. It is about time someone stood up to these Unions who quite clearly bully and dictate to passengers when or if they can travel. Our rail system in the UK is a true embarrassment and the sooner these Unions are put in their place the better for the travelling public.

Who made the rail system an embarrassment? Successive governments have done that, not the people who work in it.

 

[Unstoppable]

Who made the rail system an embarrassment? Successive governments have done that, not the people who work in it.

Me personally, I blame Unions and rail staff. By all means it is important to have all good round conditions but they are paid more than enough and have good conditions. It is just sheer greed all this. They are driving trains… they aren’t brain surgeons, air traffic controllers or fighter pilots. They need to get a grip. If they aren’t happy in their job then get another, don’t affect the livelihood and social life of many thousands who rely on the service.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Me personally, I blame Unions and rail staff. By all means it is important to have all good round conditions but they are paid more than enough and have good conditions. It is just sheer greed all this. They are driving trains… they aren’t brain surgeons, air traffic controllers or fighter pilots. They need to get a grip. If they aren’t happy in their job then get another, don’t affect the livelihood and social life of many thousands who rely on the service.

Strange as most RMT members....don't actually drive trains...but why let facts get in the way of a good rant eh?

 

[Gems]

Me personally, I blame Unions and rail staff. By all means it is important to have all good round conditions but they are paid more than enough and have good conditions. It is just sheer greed all this. They are driving trains… they aren’t brain surgeons, air traffic controllers or fighter pilots. They need to get a grip. If they aren’t happy in their job then get another, don’t affect the livelihood and social life of many thousands who rely on the service.

I'm not totally in disagreement. It's one reason why I personally have no intention of striking, but I will say this. All the guff from Shapps is likely to make me change my mind. I'm no fan of the RMT, but I dislike this government a damn sight more. I don't dance to click bait designed to make the right wing press readers drool. Something for the grey rinse brigade to get excited over whilst eating their Sunday morning cornflakes. Shapps is a idiot who has little or no understanding of how the railway actually functions at ground level.

But the RMT are idiots also. What was all the support Brexit about? What was all this "Public ownership of the railways" all about? We have public ownership now in effect, and look where we are because of it. Not once have the RMT sat with their members and fully explained to them what the government running the railways would mean. It was all a political crusade. Well now we know what it means. So no, I am no RMT fan. But I'm damned if I will be brow beaten by a government led by a pathological liar.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Me personally, I blame Unions and rail staff. By all means it is important to have all good round conditions but they are paid more than enough and have good conditions. It is just sheer greed all this. They are driving trains… they aren’t brain surgeons, air traffic controllers or fighter pilots. They need to get a grip. If they aren’t happy in their job then get another, don’t affect the livelihood and social life of many thousands who rely on the service.

Signallers have to follow a rule book. Its quite complicated.

 

[DelayRepay]

Isn't this similar to what happened with Fire Fighters? Historically the Army used to have to step in using their old Green Goddess fire engines, but now they use contractors with basic training to cover?

I may be imagining things, but I seem to recall there was some suggestion, years ago, that one TOC might train regular commuters to act as contingency guards. Does anyone else remember this or am I imagining things? I assume, either way, it never happened.

Whatever the rights and wrong of this, I'm sceptical it will work. If it was easy to cover railway positions with contractors, then why are we seeing so many trains cancelled due to shortages of train crew? And why are there sometimes line closures for part of the day due to signalling staff shortages?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Isn't this similar to what happened with Fire Fighters? Historically the Army used to have to step in using their old Green Goddess fire engines, but now they use contractors with basic training to cover?

I may be imagining things, but I seem to recall there was some suggestion, years ago, that one TOC might train regular commuters to act as contingency guards. Does anyone else remember this or am I imagining things? I assume, either way, it never happened.

Whatever the rights and wrong of this, I'm sceptical it will work. If it was easy to cover railway positions with contractors, then why are we seeing so many trains cancelled due to shortages of train crew? And why are there sometimes line closures for part of the day due to signalling staff shortages?

The amount of errors that get brushed under the carpet when "contingency Conductors" were in being used was actually very worrying. The stories from Drivers go around depots very quickly. TOCs were terrified if the info got out to the mainstream public.

 

[MP33]

I have not heard of commuters being trained as temporary guards. I did hear a statement when London Underground had a number of badly managed serious incidents. A statement from someone at London Underground that hopefully a passenger who knows what they are doing will handle things for us.

If they were asking for temporary staff at the interview if you said I no nothing about the subject shall I leave now. They would say wait around until we have interviewed all the other candidates. A little knowledge is dangerous.

 

[BrokenSam]

Obviously can't replace drivers with agency staff. However managers are often trained as guard / despatch cover which doesnt take very long. As RMT are the ones striking at the moment it's looks like something like this is more aimed at them.

Guard training lasts months.

 

[Class360/1]

The amount of errors that get brushed under the carpet when "contingency Conductors" were in being used was actually very worrying. The stories from Drivers go around depots very quickly. TOCs were terrified if the info got out to the mainstream public.

A few years back on a GA strike, an infill conductor opened the doors on the wrong side at Cromer

 

[wobman]

Guard training lasts months.

People don't realise what traincrew actually do & the intensive training that they undertake.
Lots of people rant about a subject they have zero knowledge about & belive every word from the tory press office.

 

[Gems]

"Commuters acting as guards" Some of you lot crack me up.

I remember during the Northern guards strike a few years ago a young office lass who they had bullied into acting as a guard was in tears on the second day. It didn't help when it was pointed out to her that if she messed up big time, the law was the law and standing in for a strike would be no defence. I think the thought of a potential spell in Low Newton women's prison if she had a 'trap and drag' didn't do much for her enthusiasm.

 

[Surreytraveller]

"Commuters acting as guards" Some of you lot crack me up.

Indeed. A commuter might be competent to sweep up non-platform areas of stations. But would they be willing to do that?

 

[Whistler40145]

I'd bring in the Armed Forces just like during Fire Brigade strikes

 

[DelayRepay]

"Commuters acting as guards" Some of you lot crack me up.

It wasn't my suggestion - I just remember it being suggested during a previous strike. I'm pretty sure it was Greater Anglia but like I say, I may have completely made it up.

The amount of errors that get brushed under the carpet when "contingency Conductors" were in being used was actually very worrying. The stories from Drivers go around depots very quickly. TOCs were terrified if the info got out to the mainstream public.

So what happens to the person concerned? I assume if a real guard made a mistake, it would be treated seriously and at worse could be career ending. In fact at worse it could lead to prosecution.

Do the "contingency conductors" face consequences?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Yet more disinformation spread by the BBC this week. Agency staff have already been used to cover the Avanti cleaner strike despite it being against the law, they will replace whoever them can with temp staff for sure.

But it will not be safety critical roles, signaller roles, track maintenance and ECO roles. Should TSSA join, it won't even be dispatcher or management roles.

Do not believe what you are reading in news, it's being put out there purely to undermine any industrial action only and has very little truth to it.

 

[Gems]

I'd bring in the Armed Forces just like during Fire Brigade strikes

 

[SCDR_WMR]

A few years back on a GA strike, an infill conductor opened the doors on the wrong side at Cromer

At the last LNWR strike, a contingency manager opened doors on the Rugby flyover as it had stopped at the signal.

Absolutely every tiny failure will be reported by drivers this time, no benefit of the doubt

 

[BrokenSam]

I'd bring in the Armed Forces just like during Fire Brigade strikes

To do what?

 

[DoubleO]

I really just can't see how this would work in reality. I'm sure this is just a typical case of a jumped up minister spouting off to flex his muscles and get some headlines. Imagine this system had been in place already, they would have two weeks to draft in a huge number of agency staff, requiring a huge range of competencies which all have to be up to date. It's pie in the sky stuff. No disrespect to firefighters or any other industry bur they're a completely different kettle of fish in that respect.

 

[Gems]

So what happens to the person concerned? I assume if a real guard made a mistake, it would be treated seriously and at worse could be career ending. In fact at worse it could lead to prosecution.

Do the "contingency conductors" face consequences?

Yes they would. Acting in a role is no defence in law.

 

[Whistler40145]

To do what?

Sounds sarcastic

 

[SCDR_WMR]

So what happens to the person concerned? I assume if a real guard made a mistake, it would be treated seriously and at worse could be career ending. In fact at worse it could lead to prosecution.

Do the "contingency conductors" face consequences?

If I was a normal guard, they'd be removed from service, D&A tested and be suspended pending investigation. This would stay on their file regardless of whether they were at fault.

Contingency should follow the same process, but it would have no long term impact on their career as it's not relevant.

 

[DelayRepay]

At the last LNWR strike, a contingency manager opened doors on the Rugby flyover as it had stopped at the signal.

Absolutely every tiny failure will be reported by drivers this time, no benefit of the doubt

Presumably, drivers would be entitled to refuse to drive trains staffed by poorly trained and inexperienced 'guards' on the grounds of safety? And presumably ASLEF would support their members who did so? Therefore escalating the dispute further?

 

[Gems]

This shortage of pilots. I think I should be allowed to be a pilot, can you draft me in please. I think I would make a good pilot, I have played 'flight simulator'