GWR Class 165/166 Turbo Diagrams

[HamworthyGoods]

How many turbo diagrams are there left at Reading?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 May 2022 ==


What tweaks exactly?
Have the dwell times been reduced?

Surely they would be better off ditching the 769 timings and going back to the faster 165 paths

Dwell times are the same for 165s and 769s

Bearing in mind the Reading 165s struggled with the 165 running times as these were based around the 165/0s which originally worked on the North Downs the current 769 paths provide a far more robust operating environment.

For details of the tweaks both the pre May and post May timetables are on the GWR website, you’ll be able to compare the two timetables to see what has changed, I understand it is only in the AM there are changes.

 

[FGW_DID]

With one 2-car in Wolverton for the next two months while 165125 and then 165127 go for re-fresh, 165122 away in Devon and 165121 seemingly as lifeless as a Dodo, isn't that really 8 diagrams from 7x 2cars? I know some 2-car diagrams can be covered by 3-cars, such as the Bourne End peaks diagram today, but you only need two LTV units to be out of service at the same time and cancellations become inevitable?

Technically yes, there are only 7 available 2 cars but as you say, some of the the diagrams can be covered by a three car, Bourne End peaks, Windsor Branch etc.

Isn't Bourne End peaks booked a 3car?

No, with the new SX diagrams that commenced today, they are booked for a 2 car.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Isn't Bourne End peaks booked a 3car?

The extra peak unit was but as listed above is now a 2 car, although today has been running as a 3 car. In reality this is likely to be the either or diagram depending on availability.

Also Reading Green Park opens soon, so 3 165s will be needed to provide the 2tph

The Basingstoke service has been written around 3 units for some time.

 

[pompeyfan]

talking of Devon Metro, 2L92 (the new Barnstable - Axminster) was a 3/159 today according to RTT. Will it usually be a 158, or could it literally be Turbos one day, 150s the next followed by a 158?

 

[RPI]

talking of Devon Metro, 2L92 (the new Barnstable - Axminster) was a 3/159 today according to RTT. Will it usually be a 158, or could it literally be Turbos one day, 150s the next followed by a 158?

Its booked 158, I don't believe 16x are yet route cleared. The service could run with a 150 though, if a 150 i would think it would have to be a 2 car as I believe Feniton may be too short to take a 4 car 150 (happy to be corrected though)

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Its booked 158, I don't believe 16x are yet route cleared. The service could run with a 150 though, if a 150 i would think it would have to be a 2 car as I believe Feniton may be too short to take a 4 car 150 (happy to be corrected though)

Feniton is fine for a 4 car 150 the platform is 98m. The Barney line is fairly solid class 158 so don’t expect too much variety on this train.

 

[RPI]

Feniton is fine for a 4 car 150 the platform is 98m. The Barney line is fairly solid class 158 so don’t expect too much variety on this train.

Agreed, but quite often a 166 appears on there.

 

[REVUpminster]

158951 did the Axminster run then empty to Castle Cary reversed back down to Axminster and back to Exeter via Honiton.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 May 2022 ==

Sorry, should have been clear, I knew the 165 was a short formation, I'm not yet familiar with the new diagrams other than that there are 4 turbo diagrams.

From what I can make out Barnstaple has a booked 150 now in the evening once the Barnstaple Axminster service departs, the inward working from Okehampton goes into platform 2 at Central then goes back out as the 18:15 Barnstaple.

There was also a 3 car 158 deputising today, I worked this on 2T07 which was cosy after Newton Abbot (me being me i still fought my way through and checked tickets )

I always watch 2T07. Guard needs a hazmat suit from Newton Abbot if checking tickets. I wonder how many teenage pregnancies arise from that train. Joke.

 

[FenMan]

Spot on up from 3 to 4 turbo diagrams there. A 3 car turbo has been released from Reading by some North Downs tweaks to make the plan more resource efficient.

And, in turn, North Downs Line passengers are enduring a 2 hour service gap between Reading departures in the evening. GWR/DfT has lost a decent sum fron me alone due to this gap. I drive instead instead of hanging around for the 23:34.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 May 2022 ==

Bearing in mind the Reading 165s struggled with the 165 running times as these were based around the 165/0s which originally worked on the North Downs the current 769 paths provide a far more robust operating environment.

The 165s on the North Downs definitely do not struggle, they can easily hold to the old North Downs timetable built around 165/166 operation. These days, many of the 165s from Reading arrive at Blackwater 2 minutes early due to the slack scheduling designed for 769 operation.

This may become relevant should GWR's 769s ever enter into service, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[nw1]

The extra peak unit was but as listed above is now a 2 car, although today has been running as a 3 car. In reality this is likely to be the either or diagram depending on availability.



The Basingstoke service has been written around 3 units for some time.

When was it last 2? ISTR it was 2 around the year 2000, I used to go that way quite frequently then and seem to remember short turnarounds at either end..

I do know there was a period, probably late 00s early 10s, when one of the Basingstokes used to interwork with the Reading-Newbury all stations, because the timings fit that. Don't think it's done that for a while though, even when Reading Newbury was still diesel. At a guess, it was during the period the Bedwyn left Paddington at xx18.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

When was it last 2? ISTR it was 2 around the year 2000, I used to go that way quite frequently then and seem to remember short turnarounds at either end..

I do know there was a period, probably late 00s early 10s, when one of the Basingstokes used to interwork with the Reading-Newbury all stations, because the timings fit that. Don't think it's done that for a while though, even when Reading Newbury was still diesel. At a guess, it was during the period the Bedwyn left Paddington at xx18.

I think around 2019 it went to three, due to the short turnaround times meaning one late service could kick up the service for the whole day. Now the turnarounds are extremely generous.

Certainly when it was 150/0 operated on weekdays it was a two train service, not that you could run a solely 150/0 service with three of course.

 

[REVUpminster]

Today with 4 166s and only 6 150s in pairs operating; Paignton Exmouth must be the optimum at the moment. 9 150s are doing the rest of Devon and Cornwall with 5 spare so Exeter must have some flexibility.
Air show in two weeks and it looks like an 800 is being roped in for some trips between Paignton and Newton Abbot and beyond.

 

[Rich McLean]

Today with 4 166s and only 6 150s in pairs operating; Paignton Exmouth must be the optimum at the moment. 9 150s are doing the rest of Devon and Cornwall with 5 spare so Exeter must have some flexibility.
Air show in two weeks and it looks like an 800 is being roped in for some trips between Paignton and Newton Abbot and beyond.

I would expect some 6 car 150 lash ups as well

 

[Melancholia]

What current diagrams mean there's a West <> LTV turbo swap after the new timetable was introduced?

I'm aware there was a booked 2 car turbo swap pre-TT change at Worcester, but apparently there are more now

 

[Siemens Staines]

The only other swap diagram that I have noticed is

Saturdays
3C71 0657 Reading Traincare Depot to Swindon
2O71 0808 Swindon to Weymouth
and ends West

starts West but ends
2K53 1846 Avonmouth to Bristol Temple Meads
5A53 1936 Bristol Temple Meads to Reading Traincare Depot

but the experts will know a lot better than I do, if there are any others.

 

[Kite159]

The only other swap diagram that I have noticed is

Saturdays
3C71 0657 Reading Traincare Depot to Swindon
2O71 0808 Swindon to Weymouth
and ends West

starts West but ends
2K53 1846 Avonmouth to Bristol Temple Meads
5A53 1936 Bristol Temple Meads to Reading Traincare Depot

but the experts will know a lot better than I do, if there are any others.

I believe the main swap is at Worcester in the morning with the:

0604 Gloucester to Worcester Foregate Street forming the 0652 Worcester Foregate Street to Didcot Parkway [the Combe Flyer]
&
0510 Oxford to Worcester Shrub Hill forming the 0707 Worcester Shrub Hill to Weymouth

 

[FGW_DID]

What current diagrams mean there's a West <> LTV turbo swap after the new timetable was introduced?

I'm aware there was a booked 2 car turbo swap pre-TT change at Worcester, but apparently there are more now

SX 2car wise, the LTV unit that works the Greenford Branch ends the day at Oxford, it’s next day is spent on West workings and finishes at SPM.
A 2 car from SPM ends up in LTV land finishing at Oxford, the next day this then ends up at RG after the morning peak.

SO A 3 car 165 from RG goes ECS to Swindon and ends up in the West on Weymouths. It’a then on West Workings. A 3 car from SPM comes over to LTV and finishes the day at RG so essentially every Saturday there is a 3 car 165 swap between RG & SPM.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I am delighted that while 1330/1430 Cardiff Portsmouth have remained 4-158, the new TT change has swapped the 1530 from 3-166 to 2-158+3-158. Not only do I get the choice of another 158 diagram for my 3.5 hour Uni commute but a 5 car one.

 

[Melancholia]

SX 2car wise, the LTV unit that works the Greenford Branch ends the day at Oxford, it’s next day is spent on West workings and finishes at SPM.
A 2 car from SPM ends up in LTV land finishing at Oxford, the next day this then ends up at RG after the morning peak.

SO A 3 car 165 from RG goes ECS to Swindon and ends up in the West on Weymouths. It’a then on West Workings. A 3 car from SPM comes over to LTV and finishes the day at RG so essentially every Saturday there is a 3 car 165 swap between RG & SPM.

I see, thank you.

Might see a 166 in LTV land again soon then, as I doubt they'll strictly stick to having only a 165 swap on Saturdays

 

[Kite159]

I noticed that 2 coach 165s have appeared on Basingstoke - Reading services, no mention on journey check about being a short formation.

Was on one earlier following a cancellation and it was rather cosy from Basingstoke.

 

[dmu fan]

Now we are in summer season, what are the booked coaches on the mon-fri 0745 to Weymouth from Gloucester and the 1730 to Bristol Temple Meads?
Also saturdays 0840 from Bristol to Weymouth and 1828 return please?

 

[fgwrich]

Isn't Bourne End peaks booked a 3car?

Also Reading Green Park opens soon, so 3 165s will be needed to provide the 2tph

As that is tied into the Basingstoke branch, then yes - I cant see them requiring any more units without a recast of the Reading - Basingstoke timetable.

Also, I see 165101 escaped onto the Bristol > Portsmouth Harbour route last night as I passed it at Southampton Airport Parkway at 22:13, but oddly nothing was showing up on RTT other than 166205 working Cardiff > Portsmouth via the usual routing of Hamble.

 

[Siemens Staines]

If the data feed to RTT is correct, then 166220 was this weeks 3-car move to Reading this evening

Realtime Trains | 5A53 1936 Bristol Temple Meads to Reading Traincare Depot | 28/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 5A53 1936 departure from Bristol Temple Meads to Reading Traincare Depot on 28/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

in exchange for 165109 which returned back to Bristol this morning

Realtime Trains | 3C71 0657 Reading Traincare Depot to Swindon | 28/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 3C71 0657 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to Swindon on 28/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[cactustwirly]

If the data feed to RTT is correct, then 166220 was this weeks 3-car move to Reading this evening

Realtime Trains | 5A53 1936 Bristol Temple Meads to Reading Traincare Depot | 28/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 5A53 1936 departure from Bristol Temple Meads to Reading Traincare Depot on 28/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

in exchange for 165109 which returned back to Bristol this morning

Realtime Trains | 3C71 0657 Reading Traincare Depot to Swindon | 28/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 3C71 0657 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to Swindon on 28/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Seems very messy now, 165s and 166s should not be mixed up.
Isn't there specific places where 166s are banned but 165s are fine? I remember reading something about the Henley branch after the RHM

 

[JN114]

RTT is correct, 166220 is on a little holiday back to the motherland this week as the 3 car 165s were all displaced from their regular diagrams so none could get onto the Reading finish this evening without causing significant delay or even cancellation. West Control offered to send 166220 so Thames Valley weren’t short; and Thames Valley accepted. It’ll almost certainly go “home” next Saturday.

Seems very messy now, 165s and 166s should not be mixed up.
Isn't there specific places where 166s are banned but 165s are fine? I remember reading something about the Henley branch after the RHM

The fleet planners and diagrammers would prefer we kept the 166s in the West and the 165s rotate as previously explained upthread; however operationally there is little difference between the two types.

There were some 166 RHM restrictions while the RHM project was ongoing, but they were all cleared well before the last 166s headed West in 2020.

 

[swt_passenger]

Seems very messy now, 165s and 166s should not be mixed up.
Isn't there specific places where 166s are banned but 165s are fine? I remember reading something about the Henley branch after the RHM

P5 at Twyford was an issue, now fixed, it’s explained around the post linked below, but it turned out both classes should have been affected, one was only cleared in error:

GWR Class 769 information. (Units no longer with GWR - Off Lease March 23)

I’ve just spotted two (numbers unknown) outside Reading depot. They have an attractive purple and silver HEx livery but it’s clear the seats are the same ironing boards. None of the units have been completed yet. The first stage is exterior repaint and interior fittings strip. Second stage is...

www.railforums.co.uk

But post #92 on the following page is “interesting”…

 

[JN114]

I noticed that 2 coach 165s have appeared on Basingstoke - Reading services, no mention on journey check about being a short formation.

Was on one earlier following a cancellation and it was rather cosy from Basingstoke.

2 of the 3 Basingstoke diagrams today were planned as 2 cars - I agree it’s possibly not the wisest of moves; but 3 car availability isn’t as great on a weekend, what with the SPM changeover diagram, the Windsor being (and needing to be) a 3 car on a weekend; and the way the North Downs units have to be diagrammed with them outstabling all over the place tonight.

 

[Parallel]

Now we are in summer season, what are the booked coaches on the mon-fri 0745 to Weymouth from Gloucester and the 1730 to Bristol Temple Meads?
Also saturdays 0840 from Bristol to Weymouth and 1828 return please?

I'm not sure what's booked, but today the 08:40 Bristol - Weymouth was formed of 2 x 158 (4 coaches). The 18:28 was also formed of 2 x 158s (not the same ones).

The 17:28 Weymouth - Bristol Temple Meads was formed of a single 2-car 165 which looks like it should've attached at Bristol to an ex-Cardiff train heading to Portsmouth, but it doesn't look like this happened today.

 

[CC 72100]

Now we are in summer season, what are the booked coaches on the mon-fri 0745 to Weymouth from Gloucester and the 1730 to Bristol Temple Meads?
Also saturdays 0840 from Bristol to Weymouth and 1828 return please?

Both weekday trains you have mentioned are booked 2×165. (Different set diagrams).

The sets off that 0745 stay together for most of the day, the 1730 is an attachment at Bristol on the way down in the mid-afternoon.

 

[geoffk]

Today (a warm sunny Saturday) the 17.56 from Exmouth was reported as a two-car 150, heavily loaded from Exmouth with at least 30 people left on the platform and more at Topsham. Two Turbos were among the seven units working the service. Anyone know if there is a problem with 150s (one away in works I believe).