Rail industry preparing for national strikes

[ANorthernGuard]

Problem is govts of all hues around the world have finally overused the credit card and its blown up in a rapid rise in prices. Then the Ukraine debacle is forcing up energy costs to unsustainable levels for millions of people and our govt will have to find another 10B unplanned to try and temper the impact on the poorest in our society. So having supported the railways by an additional 16B when other industries had no support the govt aren't going to readily concede anymore cash than they've budgeted for in transport. The way to adequately reward people is to for the industry leaders to talk productivity improvement with the unions to fund the element above say 5%. I don't know if the operators and NR have tried to do this or have been thwarted by too much DfT meddling but it will be tragedy for the industry given all the progress its made in growing ridership over this century for us to end up in it descending into national industrial action which would set it back forty years.

The trouble with productivity is many Rail Staff have over the years sold off many T&Cs

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The trouble with productivity is many Rail Staff have over the years sold off many T&Cs

in exchange for what? I was offered cash by Railtrack to come of BR T&Cs but never did it didn't change how I worked though nor would have it done had i done so.

 

[Thermal]

If the rail industry was so successful that it was able to pay a 10% increase from its own revenue, that would be wonderful; But it is absolutely not the case.

The argument that pay rises should only be given if they can be covered by profits just doesn't hold up when rail operators are forced to run some services at a loss for the benefit of wider society. I could accept that position if TOC's could choose to only run services on high revenue routes at busy times and were allowed to cut all trains at quieter times and on unprofitable rural lines etc, but whilst ever the railway is forced to run as a public service, you cannot use profit to determine expenditure.

Northern for example are widely considered to be at the high subsidy end of the TOC scale, so their staff would never be eligible for a fair pay rise based on profit alone, yet they recently released a report showing how even post pandemic, every £1 spent adds over £2 to the wider economy. It is the staff delivering this benefit and as such they should be fairly compensated for doing so.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

The argument that pay rises should only be given if they can be covered by profits just doesn't hold up when rail operators are forced to run some services at a loss for the benefit of wider society. I could accept that position if TOC's could choose to only run services on high revenue routes at busy times and were allowed to cut all trains at quieter times and on unprofitable rural lines etc, but whilst ever the railway is forced to run as a public service, you cannot use profit to determine expenditure.

Northern for example are widely considered to be at the high subsidy end of the TOC scale, so their staff would never be eligible for a fair pay rise based on profit alone, yet they recently released a report showing how even post pandemic, every £1 spent adds over £2 to the wider economy. It is the staff delivering this benefit and as such they should be fairly compensated for doing so.

Well Said

 

[dk1]

Well Said

I concur too.

 

[NI 271]

So having supported the railways by an additional 16B when other industries had no support

Current estimates of the cost of the UK's furlough scheme run at over £70bn (and that's the conservative end of the estimates). Suggesting that wasn't support for other industries is a remarkable point of view - that is precisely what it was, support so companies didn't go bust while unable to operate. No support indeed, deary me.

 

[yorkie]

I think if you are organised having your ticket on your phone it is less likely to get lost.

My phone is waterproof, have you ever seen a traditional ticket after being caught out in a downpour?

My railcard is also on my pnone, everything in one place.

Full day out, I carry a small battery pack, or depending on what I am doing a full size several charges pack (which is about the same size as my phone and twice as thick). Nearly all long distance trains and a lot of local trains and buses have USB charging sockets, so if you are watching a video or playing a game plug in before your battery charge drops into the danger zone.

There are no queues at either the ticket office or machine to navigate and allow time for.

Some TOC apps seem better than others, I use Northern, which has proven pretty reliable, and TPE which is flaky, but I do get Nectar points until the end of the month with TPE, so from the 1st June TPE will not be used. I can use the northern app for tickets outside the Northern area.

I am in my mid 60s, yes there are a few people older than me who haven't taken to 'tech' but move forward another 10 years and paper tickets will be consigned to the history book. I dont know anyone amongst friends, family and colleagues who hasn't got a smartphone.

Absolutely but this subject has been done to death in dedicated threads!

Last year's thread:

Paper tickets vs E-tickets

First of all sorry if this already exists but I could not seem to find a thread on it. Also I was not sure this fit in with 'fares advice' as this is more of a 'which do you prefer' not which is better for journeys or makes more sense. Personally I prefer 'credit card' tickets, as I love being...

www.railforums.co.uk

This year's threads:

Are e-tickets the way forward?

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/transpennine-industrial-relations.226123/ They should stick to paper tickets and then they wouldn't have this problem.

www.railforums.co.uk

Preferred ticket format poll (paper ticket vs smartphone app etc.)

Off the back of this thread ... https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/are-e-tickets-the-way-forward.231423/ I will be interested to see the results!

www.railforums.co.uk

It's cropped up in other threads too!

I really couldn’t care less where it comes from. I find the idea that there’s no money to reward people like myself who continued to work throughout the pandemic when millions were being paid to sit about on their backsides, only now to be told “there’s no money”, utterly offensive to be honest.

How about:

- claw back some of the £5bn that has been written off after being fraudulently claimed in Covid support;
- create an additional tax rate for those who received furlough assistance from the government
- simply borrow some more money! A little more will make hardly any difference in the grand scheme of things.

As I keep asking, where is the money to fund a pay rise for 1m+ NHS staff coming from?

Feel free to create a new thread to discuss these ideas in General Discussion.

But the idea of just borrowing a bit more, multiplied no doubt across every industry that demands it, isn't really sustainable or affordable.

 

[yorksrob]

, yet they recently released a report showing how even post pandemic, every £1 spent adds over £2 to the wider economy.

This is true, however it's doubtful it would have done so during the recurring strike a while back which blighted the North for months on end (might have been over a year).

I don't fancy the industries chances if this on drags on in a similar fashion.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

This is true, however it's doubtful it would have done so during the recurring strike a while back which blighted the North for months on end (might have been over a year).

I don't fancy the industries chances if this on drags on in a similar fashion.

It was 47 Saturdays in a Row. We were fighting for more than just pay then though. We were fighting for our very existence (Career wise)

 

[The Planner]

I will be shocked if it isn't a Massive Vote for Both Action Short of a Strike and Strike itself.

That appears to be the expectation from what I have heard anecdotaly.

 

[yorksrob]

It was 47 Saturdays in a Row. We were fighting for more than just pay then though. We were fighting for our very existence (Career wise)

There were also some weekday ones beforehand as I recall.

One can only hope that if the entire country is embroiled, an agreement will be reached more quickly.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

There were also some weekday ones beforehand as I recall.

One can only hope that if the entire country is embroiled, an agreement will be reached more quickly.

We just want a Fair deal, in my near 20 years on the railway this is the 1st time that even after cutting back money is tight.

 

[winks]

Paul Clifton on the BBC was saying that unions should get used to below inflation deals much like the public sector and that the railways have done very well in pay deals since privatisation.

SWT/SWR guards pay has risen on average £1,000 per year every year since the year 2000. Not sustainable

TfL forklift driver on £47k Not sustainable.

My own opinion is that the nhs police teachers and councils should get more and the railways 2-3pc

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Current estimates of the cost of the UK's furlough scheme run at over £70bn (and that's the conservative end of the estimates). Suggesting that wasn't support for other industries is a remarkable point of view - that is precisely what it was, support so companies didn't go bust while unable to operate. No support indeed, deary me.

OK that is a fair comment had railway staff been furloughed would have cost the taxpayer money although only 80% of the cost though so technically the industry has only absorbed 3-4B extra cost.

That aside i know loads of people who would have preferred to have been allowed to work not because of the lost earnings just for their mental well being.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Paul Clifton on the BBC was saying that unions should get used to below inflation deals much like the public sector and that the railways have done very well in pay deals since privatisation.

SWT/SWR guards pay has risen on average £1,000 per year every year since the year 2000. Not sustainable

TfL forklift driver on £47k Not sustainable.

My own opinion is that the nhs police teachers and councils should get more and the railways 2-3pc

Everyone should get more.. I (obviously am a Guard) and don't get anywhere near what a tfl forklift driver gets

 

[Efini92]

NETWORK RAIL for STRIKE ACTION

Eligible to vote 21070
Votes cast 15382
Percentage voting 73%

Voting yes 14146 67.1%
Voting no 1211 7.9%
Spoil papers 25

NETWORK RAIL for ACTION SHORT OF STRIKE

Eligible to vote 21070
Votes cast 15382
Percentage voting 73%

Voting yes 14808 70.3%
Voting no 530 3.5%
Spoilt papers 44

 

[winks]

No signallers no trains !

 

[baz962]

NETWORK RAIL for STRIKE ACTION

Eligible to vote 21070
Votes cast 15382
Percentage voting 73%

Voting yes 14146 67.1%
Voting no 1211 7.9%
Spoil papers 25

NETWORK RAIL for ACTION SHORT OF STRIKE

Eligible to vote 21070
Votes cast 15382
Percentage voting 73%

Voting yes 14808 70.3%
Voting no 530 3.5%
Spoilt papers 44

I don't know how it all works , so does that meet the threshold.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

NETWORK RAIL for STRIKE ACTION

Eligible to vote 21070
Votes cast 15382
Percentage voting 73%

Voting yes 14146 67.1%
Voting no 1211 7.9%
Spoil papers 25

NETWORK RAIL for ACTION SHORT OF STRIKE

Eligible to vote 21070
Votes cast 15382
Percentage voting 73%

Voting yes 14808 70.3%
Voting no 530 3.5%
Spoilt papers 44

BIG Result!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

NETWORK RAIL for STRIKE ACTION

Eligible to vote 21070
Votes cast 15382
Percentage voting 73%

Voting yes 14146 67.1%
Voting no 1211 7.9%
Spoil papers 25

NETWORK RAIL for ACTION SHORT OF STRIKE

Eligible to vote 21070
Votes cast 15382
Percentage voting 73%

Voting yes 14808 70.3%
Voting no 530 3.5%
Spoilt papers 44

Thats pretty definitive result and hope govt urgently give NR the space and support to seriously engage with RMT to find a way forward.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 May 2022 ==

I don't know how it all works , so does that meet the threshold.

by a country mile

 

[yorkie]

Everyone should get more.. I (obviously am a Guard) and don't get anywhere near what a tfl forklift driver gets

If everyone gets more, the value of what you have is less.

The reality is that many rail industry roles pay more, and in some cases very considerably more, than jobs which could potentially be seen as indirectly comparable in terms of what alternative roles people may be suited for or be able to obtain in other industries.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Thats pretty definitive result and hope govt urgently give NR the space and support to seriously engage with RMT to find a way forward.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 May 2022 ==


by a country mile

Still have the Tocs Vote yet to come.

 

[Efini92]

From an RMT member

“Northern Trains for STRIKE ACTION

Eligible to vote 3199
Votes cast 2409
Percentage voting 75.3%

Voting yes 2145 69.2%
Voting no 259 10.8%
Spoil papers 5

Northern Trains for ACTION SHORT OF STRIKE

Eligible to vote 3199
Votes cast 2409
Percentage voting 75.3%

Voting yes 2274 71.1%
Voting no 125 5.2%
Spoilt paper 10”

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Still have the Tocs Vote yet to come.

Indeed but without NR key operating and safety critical staff doesn't matter what the TOCs staff vote. RMT can play it smart pull out signallers, ECRO's, signal techs and you ain't got a railway. Just put a levy on all those who are unable to work and they could run it for weeks if the staff are up for it. If NR don't explain the reality to DfT and get space to negotiate then the outcome for our industry looks grim.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Indeed but without NR key operating and safety critical staff doesn't matter what the TOCs staff vote. RMT can play it smart pull out signallers, ECRO's, signal techs and you ain't got a railway. Just put a levy on all those who are unable to work and they could run it for weeks if the staff are up for it. If NR don't explain the reality to DfT and get space to negotiate then the outcome for our industry looks grim.

But if the RMT play it smarter and Aslef join in (which is looking very Likely) and even a chance TSSA may ballot (which is very rare) If each section strikes on a particular day it would cause chaos.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

But if the RMT play it smarter and Aslef join in (which is looking very Likely) and even a chance TSSA may ballot (which is very rare) If each section strikes on a particular day it would cause chaos.

TSSA are pointless Cortes thinks he has power but actually has very little

 

[ChrisRS]

I don't know how it all works , so does that meet the threshold.

Quoted from the RMT

If a union wants to call industrial action the ballot result must show that at least 50% of all eligible members have voted and at least 40% of all those entitled to vote must have voted Yes. If we don’t meet these thresholds the union cannot call any action at all. It doesn’t even matter if there is an overwhelming yes vote!

 

[uglymonkey]

Everybody goes back to working from home( the passengers(sorry customers). Freight not going anywhere might get the governments notice - but it's only what 10%? Does the unions have big pockets for strike pay for the long haul?

 

[Efini92]

TSSA are pointless Cortes thinks he has power but actually has very little

They could ballot the managers that are trying to break the strikes.

 

[Editrain2]

Where are you seeing the results ?