Ukraine Railways and the Russian Invasion

[Annetts key]

Cruise missiles are not suited to attacking in flight aircraft. But if Russia had the intelligence on which runway was going to be used, or took a guess at the most likely runways, then that would be a suitable target to use cruise missiles against.

To attack an in flight aircraft, Russian long range surface to air missiles could be used, assuming they could detect it from sufficient distance on radar.

Land/ground based radar may not have been able to detect low flying aircraft from a distance. But airborne radar systems should be able to do so.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation report about a medical train set up by Médecins Sans Frontières. (The reporter seems not have realised that the cars are platskartny open sleepers which already have bunk beds.)

Harrowing journey aboard medical train in Ukraine takes injured to safer areas

As a retrofitted medical train pulled out of Zaporizhzhia, Ukraine, carrying nine badly injured patients to a safer location last week, Canadian American physician Dr. Daniel Schnorr could finally exhale.

"After all the patients were on board, we were getting ready to leave and we did have an air raid … so the train was stuck for a little while," said Schnorr, who led the first mission of its kind for Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF), also known as Doctors Without Borders.

"But then, eventually, the air raid was lifted, and the train started moving, and everyone breathed a sigh of relief — and you're on your way. And once the train starts moving, it feels like you're already halfway there," he told White Coat, Black Art host Dr. Brian Goldman.

Schnorr is among a number of Canadian health-care workers going to great lengths to care for Ukrainians on and near the front lines of the war that started when Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24.

"The idea of the medical train kind of arose because we noted that the trains have, remarkably, been able to run throughout the war from the beginning," he said.

After a security analysis, the group concluded that the trains are the safest mode of travel right now, despite the fact that the station the group departed from was bombed a few weeks earlier.

 

[Iskra]

Courageous rail workers keep Ukraine running amid war | DW News​

Ukraine's trains have played a central role in the country's defense against Russia – taking people out of harm's way and bringing in aid. They keep moving thanks to tireless railway workers who have been risking their lives. DW met one of them.

 

[geoffk]

There's a gauge-change (standard to Russian or v.v.) at the Polish-Ukrainian border which makes it complex and slow to operate through trains.
There is just one exception - the modern Broad Gauge Metallurgy Line which runs across southern Poland from the border almost to Katowice, which allows mineral trains from eastern Ukraine to run directly to steelworks in Polish Silesia.


The line in Poland seems to be a mix of old Russian-gauge routes dating from Tsarist days, with some new linking construction from the 1970s.
The line surely also provides a route for the export to Ukraine of military and humanitarian support, without being exposed and delayed at the main border crossings.
There's also scope for something similar at the Ukraine-Slovakia border where there is another cross-border broad gauge freight line at Uzhhorod, to Košice.

This all looks very bad. Ukraine aspires to join the EU and perhaps the eventual reconstruction of the country's railways should include conversion to standard gauge, or would that be no more than a symbolic gesture? New railways in the Baltic states (Rail Baltica) are already being built to s.g. as they will be orientated towards Poland and the west.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Converting the Ukrainian network to standard gauge would take decades. "Eventual reconstruction" has already begun.

 

[Annetts key]

The BBC has a piece on how the Ukrainian railways are rebuilding.

It includes a video showing them restoring a much needed line that was closed due to bridge damage.
Follow this link

Rebuilt railway bridge a symbol of hope
James Waterhouse
Kyiv correspondent, BBC News

Railway lines and stations are increasingly being targeted by Russian forces in the war in Ukraine. But the authorities there are determined to maintain some normality across the country, as the Russian invasion continues into a third month.

With this in mind, a railway bridge connecting war-torn towns such as Irpin, Bucha and Borodyanka with the capital Kyiv has been rebuilt - in just one month - allowing some 400,000 people who depend on the service to return to a semblance of everyday life.

It's a symbol of hope for devastated communities. "Destruction like this can be recovered with time," says one passenger. "Rome was not built in a day."

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Direct link to the video

 

[Roast Veg]

This all looks very bad. Ukraine aspires to join the EU and perhaps the eventual reconstruction of the country's railways should include conversion to standard gauge, or would that be no more than a symbolic gesture? New railways in the Baltic states (Rail Baltica) are already being built to s.g. as they will be orientated towards Poland and the west.

The obvious answer, as it is in the Baltics and Iberia, is for new build inter-city lines to be at standard gauge with the legacy network at broad gauge. I'd suggest extending the concept to Moldova/Georgia/Azerbaijan as and when such new railways are proposed.

 

[Vespa]

The

Converting the Ukrainian network to standard gauge would take decades. "Eventual reconstruction" has already begun.

The benefit of converting to standard gauge would be to deny Ukrainian railway network to Russian trains and increased resupply from the west, not only that, mentally this would connect Ukraine to the West.

In WW2 the Germans did just this in territories they've conquered, when the Soviets reconquered it they converted it back to Russian gauge.

 

[Annetts key]

Converting the Ukrainian network to standard gauge would take decades.

I disagree. At the moment the priority is keeping as much as possible of the existing network operational.

But when the war ends, it should be possible to convert to standard gauge in three years or less. It very much depends on how important it is to them, how much resources they will have available, and on how easy or not it is to convert any locomotives, EMUs, DMUs, carriages/cars and other rolling stock.

It may also depend on if the EU or other friendly countries supply new locomotives, EMUs, DMUs, carriages/cars or other rolling stock.

Having said that, the easier export of grain and other products may drive the change. While Ukraine is denied access to the Black Sea, it may be that rail will become even more important for trade to other countries.

 

[Ken H]

I saw a piece (cant find it now) that said the Russians have taken out the railway electricity feeders, thus rendering al the electric trains useless. Is this true or just rumour?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Could Ukraine send its current grain stocks by rail to the EC, noting their current ports being under duress by Russia?

 

[ainsworth74]

Could Ukraine send its current grain stocks by rail to the EC, noting their current ports being under duress by Russia?

My understanding is that Ukrainian Railways are looking at doing that just as quickly as they can but obviously even one bulk grain carrier can shift far more grain than several trains. Plus there is the break of gauge issue to contend with. The other issue is that Ukrainian grain tended to be sold to poorer countries such as Bangladesh or Egypt or Indonesia rather than richer European countries. So even if Ukraine can sell their grain to Europe via rail links that's still going to cause significant price shocks in countries which can ill afford huge price rises. Perhaps an aspect of this war that isn't being talked about enough is what the conflict might mean for poorer countries that were relying on Ukrainian grains this year and in following years.

 

[Giugiaro]

Plus there is the break of gauge issue to contend with.

Both Poland and Ukraine should have SUW 2000 axle equipped waggons or bogeys.
As long as Russia hasn't targeted the gauge changing sections of track, the break of gauge shouldn't be an issue.

 

[ainsworth74]

Both Poland and Ukraine should have SUW 2000 axle equipped waggons or bogeys.
As long as Russia hasn't targeted the gauge changing sections of track, the break of gauge shouldn't be an issue.

Enough to equip hundreds, or maybe more, grain hopper wagons?

 

[Richard Scott]

My understanding is that Ukrainian Railways are looking at doing that just as quickly as they can but obviously even one bulk grain carrier can shift far more grain than several trains. Plus there is the break of gauge issue to contend with. The other issue is that Ukrainian grain tended to be sold to poorer countries such as Bangladesh or Egypt or Indonesia rather than richer European countries. So even if Ukraine can sell their grain to Europe via rail links that's still going to cause significant price shocks in countries which can ill afford huge price rises. Perhaps an aspect of this war that isn't being talked about enough is what the conflict might mean for poorer countries that were relying on Ukrainian grains this year and in following years.

Noticed a trainload on Transcereal wagons near Budapest a few weeks ago; did wonder if had originated in Ukraine?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The BBC has a piece on how the Ukrainian railways are rebuilding.
It includes a video showing them restoring a much needed line that was closed due to bridge damage.

Studying the railway map of Ukraine, I think the rebuilt line is the one north-west of Kyiv towards Korosten that does a big loop at Irpin and Bucha, two of the most damaged towns.
I travelled this route in 2019 from Lviv, and it's one of the key routes towards Poland and the west.
Recently there were reports of missile strikes at Krasne, east of Lviv, where the two main routes from Kyiv (via Korosten and Ternopil) converge.
You'd expect the Russians to go after key nodes on the network, and other critical infrastructure.
I suspect the incremental damage from missile strikes is growing faster than the Ukrainians can repair it.
The Ukrainians also deliberately blew up some key road bridges around Kyiv to obstruct the Russian advance, also rail routes across the border from Russia/Belarus.
Foreign leaders keep popping up on visits to Kyiv, not to mention journalists changing over, so there must still be a viable rail network.

 

[ainsworth74]

Foreign leaders keep popping up on visits to Kyiv, not to mention journalists changing over, so there must still be a viable rail network.

Apart from areas under direct occupation or cut off from the rest of Ukraine they appear to have managed to maintain services to all parts of the network. Even Kharkiv had a rail service it seems during the majority of the war so far.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I would guess it must be quite hard to do too much damage to the railways through missile strikes. If it's just plain track between stations, then the missile would have to be targeted very precisely to hit the track, and we've amply seen how unreliable a lot of Russian tech is. They can of course target stations, but stations tend to be open air affairs spread over large areas. An explosion in the open air is going to go a lot less damage than an explosion that hits a building, where the majority of the explosion therefore takes place inside the building. That leaves bridges, which I guess would be a bit easier to damage sufficiently to make a rail route inoperable - but even so, that still requires quite precise targeting. Add to that that Russia can't have an inexhaustible supply of missiles, and Western sanctions must be making it hard for them to build replacements for the ones they use.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

G7 to discuss action to break Russian blockade of Ukraine grain exports

Meetings in Germany will look at alternative routes to ports as ‘44 million people march towards starvation’

www.theguardian.com

Urgent measures to break the Russian blockade of grain exports from Ukraine’s ports, including by trying to open routes through Romanian and Baltic ports, will be discussed by G7 foreign and agriculture ministers at meetings in Germany.

The grain exports blockade is fast becoming one of the most urgent diplomatic and humanitarian crises in Ukraine. On Tuesday, the US president, Joe Biden, said the US was working on solutions “to get this food out into the world so that it could help bring down prices.”

G7 foreign ministers are meeting in the Baltic Sea resort of Weissenhaus north-east of Hamburg, and the agriculture ministers in Stuttgart.

Cem Özdemir, the German agriculture minister and a Green party member, has for months been looking with the EU at alternative train routes through Poland and Belarus to Baltic ports, but the different train gauges between Ukraine and Poland, a pre-existing backlog of traffic and the shortage of suitable rail wagons all count against this option.

There's lots more in the article about the obstacles to transporting grain by rail.

 

[Iskra]

Just a small update, but Ukrainian Railways have announced a 'decolonisation project,' in the wake of the Russian invasion. They are re-setting all of their mileposts to originate from Kyiv rather than Moscow as now; and more beneficially to any forum members, they are changing the official language of the railway as (appears on tickets etc) from Russian to English which is a very helpful move. Additionally, Soviet insignia and murals around the network are to be removed.

 

[philg999]

Just a small update, but Ukrainian Railways have announced a 'decolonisation project,' in the wake of the Russian invasion. They are re-setting all of their mileposts to originate from Kyiv rather than Moscow as now; and more beneficially to any forum members, they are changing the official language of the railway as (appears on tickets etc) from Russian to English which is a very helpful move. Additionally, Soviet insignia and murals around the network are to be removed.

But Ukrainian is written in Cyrillic. How are the majority of locals who don’t understand the English alphabet supposed to read railway literature then if they attempt to do an English phonetic rewrite of everything?! I’m not sure this is credible information.

 

[30907]

But Ukrainian is written in Cyrillic. How are the majority of locals who don’t understand the English alphabet supposed to read railway literature then if they attempt to do an English phonetic rewrite of everything?! I’m not sure this is credible information.

I read the story as changing the second language to English.
The first is Ukrainian (not Russian)..

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

I would not be surprised if internal documentation (manuals, maintenance records, working timetables, etc.) is still written in Russian or was until recently.

 

[edwin_m]

I read the story as changing the second language to English.
The first is Ukrainian (not Russian)..

That's how I interpreted it.

I would not be surprised if internal documentation (manuals, maintenance records, working timetables, etc.) is still written in Russian or was until recently.

On a project a few years ago in Latvia, it turned out the quite senior people in the railways organisation we needed to talk to only spoke Russian. I suspect the national tensions involving the Russian-speaking minority in Latvia also played into tensions between the railway and the government.

 

[duesselmartin]

One does wonder if replacecing mile stones should be a priority.

 

[cakefiend]

One does wonder if replacecing mile stones should be a priority.

It won't be a priority, but it'll happen and the announcement is valuable for propaganda.