Ideas/suggestions & other speculation for Okehampton / Exmouth lines

[Ash Bridge]

Where will the tracks pass if it's not at Bow?

Do you mean where will the trains pass?

 

[tomm]

Do you mean where will the trains pass?

Yes

 

[zwk500]

Where will the tracks pass if it's not at Bow?

Trains will cross at Crediton.

 

[tomm]

Thanks

 

[REVUpminster]

Bow Station is in the middle of nowhere. south of St Batholomew's church which was in the old village of Nymet Tracey which suffered a huge fire and the villagers moved north to Bow.
There only a few farm conversions and probably a population of ten living next to the church.

Bow and North Tawton stations very unlikely to ever reopen as land development very unlikely.

 

[tomm]

Bow Station is in the middle of nowhere. south of St Batholomew's church which was in the old village of Nymet Tracey which suffered a huge fire and the villagers moved north to Bow.
There only a few farm conversions and probably a population of ten living next to the church.

Bow and North Tawton stations very unlikely to ever reopen as land development very unlikely.

Will there be an extra track after the engineering works between Crediton and Okehampton

 

[Cowley]

Will there be an extra track after the engineering works between Crediton and Okehampton

No there won’t be.

 

[30907]

No there won’t be.

The single line is enough for a 1tph service, which is all that is likely for the forseeable future.

 

[uglymonkey]

I suspect it's more to do with it being expensive work and not really necessary to check. Therefore, until it is checked, trains can't pass. There's no need to pass trains at Okehampton so it would be a total waste of money checking to see if they could.

I do think this is funny ( in a sad way) as from 1997 ( when it reopened for Sunday service) to 2019, when the company went bust, a whole range of units, railtours, 66's on occasional ballast all went past a range of stock on platform 2 , with out any issue at all ( 08, mk1 coaches, mk2 coaches), Indeed to redo the line a range of traction and trains past the defunt Mk 2 polar express coaches in the other platfrom with out issue!

The only issue I can think of, is that Network rail, don't want any "hertitage" side operating the Okehampton/Meldon side - letting them have access to " Network Rail" metals.
Inspite of the fact that both operated alongside each other for years without issue, and I would have thought would have meant more customers who may like
to travel to Okehampton on their services to access the heritage line to Meldon.

 

[507020]

I do think this is funny ( in a sad way) as from 1997 ( when it reopened for Sunday service) to 2019, when the company went bust, a whole range of units, railtours, 66's on occasional ballast all went past a range of stock on platform 2 , with out any issue at all ( 08, mk1 coaches, mk2 coaches), Indeed to redo the line a range of traction and trains past the defunt Mk 2 polar express coaches in the other platfrom with out issue!

The only issue I can think of, is that Network rail, don't want any "hertitage" side operating the Okehampton/Meldon side - letting them have access to " Network Rail" metals.
Inspite of the fact that both operated alongside each other for years without issue, and I would have thought would have meant more customers who may like
to travel to Okehampton on their services to access the heritage line to Meldon.

It is a problem, but it’s not an objection to any heritage operation since there is a bay platform which is not too close to the Network Rail platform for them to make a fuss, even if heritage stock has to arrive there by road because it isn’t granted access to it.

 

[30907]

It is a problem, but it’s not an objection to any heritage operation since there is a bay platform which is not too close to the Network Rail platform for them to make a fuss, even if heritage stock has to arrive there by road because it isn’t granted access to it.

Marky T's explanation upthread makes good sense.
Bear in mind that sharing a station with an hourly 7-day operation increases the risk compared with 4-5 seasonal trains a week.

 

[Iskra]

I visited Meldon Quarry by charter train from the mainline in 2016 on the UKrailtours Tre, Pol and Pen railtour and even then when it was in its preservation heyday it had a great feel of dilapidation and neglect about it (but it was still a very worthwhile visit). Some of the rotting rolling stock stored there was relatively recently sold off.

 

[fgwrich]

Looks like the DRA reported and published photos of some tidying at Meldon and work on the heritage stock recently. https://www.dartmoor-railway-association.org/wip

Thanks for that, it's good to see the DRA are still active and looking after their stock at Meldon - and being supported by Aggregate Industries as well. It is disappointing to read the comment about RMS / ERS taking it upon themselves to change the locks on the Workshop / Shed.

Marky T's explanation upthread makes good sense.
Bear in mind that sharing a station with an hourly 7-day operation increases the risk compared with 4-5 seasonal trains a week.

While there is that, the Spa Valley successfully operates out of a similar station with further risk (a "through" mainline with a higher speed limit). So Network Rail cant be completely against any set up of a preserved railway running parallel to one of its own (come to think of it, Peak Rail briefly does too at Matlock).

 

[zwk500]

While there is that, the Spa Valley successfully operates out of a similar station with further risk (a "through" mainline with a higher speed limit). So Network Rail cant be completely against any set up of a preserved railway running parallel to one of its own (come to think of it, Peak Rail briefly does too at Matlock).

There's not enough room for 2 tracks and the cycleway beyond Okehampton, so you'd either need to tear up the cycleway or put in some kind of signalling arrangement to stop DRA trains going on an unplanned trip towards Exeter. This could be pretty basic (a set of clipped and scotched points with the DRA not running when freights are scheduled, for instance) but is still cost which the DRA would need to find.

 

[uglymonkey]

The quarry ( or ex-quarry) isn't very secure, all the heritage coaches are regularly graffittied and recently all had their windows smashed ( again) The 08 , I think has a shed.

 

[341o2]

Why would NR correct something it had never said?

A Structural Engineer's report from 1990.

By the 1960's two trains were not permitted to be on the viaduct at the same time, things were far busier with the connections to Bude and Padstow to be made.
The cost of maintaining it was given as the principal reason for closing Okehampton - Bere Alston.
A metal structure left to the elements for 50 years
Not surprising that it needs extensive work to be fit for the passage of trains again

 

[30907]

While there is that, the Spa Valley successfully operates out of a similar station with further risk (a "through" mainline with a higher speed limit). So Network Rail cant be completely against any set up of a preserved railway running parallel to one of its own (come to think of it, Peak Rail briefly does too at Matlock).

Fair point. Both of those operations have been going for a fair while, which might make a difference.

 

[uglymonkey]

And it was once a "mainline" station, presumably built for things to pass each other, although "grandfather" rights or similar comes into play, both platform edges and surfaces were rebuilt for the reopening, so at some point they muct be " modern" standards or similar.

 

[Brush 4]

There would be an extra track without laying any, if Coleford Junction was reinstated. An instant 4 miles of double track, instead of 4 miles of parrallel single tracks, connected only at Crediton.

 

[REVUpminster]

There would be an extra track without laying any, if Coleford Junction was reinstated. An instant 4 miles of double track, instead of 4 miles of parrallel single tracks, connected only at Crediton.

That definitely needs to be done for some operational flexibility. The way signalling is going it could be worked by a signaller in McDonalds on his smart phone.
I notice ticket inspectors are using smart phones to issue tickets (printer separate) and take debit/credit card payments. My garage door installer took the money in the same way.

 

[30907]

There would be an extra track without laying any, if Coleford Junction was reinstated. An instant 4 miles of double track, instead of 4 miles of parrallel single tracks, connected only at Crediton.

True, only needs a new platform at Yeoford and two crossovers, but it doesn't increase capacity significantly on either branch. Better and probably cheaper to redouble towards Newton St Cyres if you want a dynamic loop.

 

[adrock1976]

My suggested service pattern would be as follows:

Paignton - Exmouth every 30 minutes, calling all stations (no or very little change from present)

Barnstaple - Axminster every 120 minutes, calling Chapelton (on request), Umberleigh, Portsmouth Arms (on request), Kings Nympton (on request), Eggesford, Yeoford, Crediton, Exeter St Davids, and all stations to Axminster

Barnstaple - Axminster every 120 minutes, calling Umberleigh, Eggesford, Lapford (on request), Morchard Road (on request), Copplestone (on request), Yeoford, Crediton, Newtown St Cyres (on request), Exeter St Davids, and all stations to Axminster

Okehampton - Axminster every 60 minutes, calling Parkway, Sampford Courtney (on request every 2 hours), Yeoford, Crediton, Newton St Cyres (on request every 2 hours opposite to Sampford Courtney), Exeter St Davids, and all stations to Axminster

Double track would be required east of Pinhoe, and somewhere between Cowley Bridge and Yeoford.

The combined frequency Yeoford - Axminster would be every 30 minutes, with a train every 60 minutes to each of Okehampton and Barnstaple. Perhaps the London Waterloo trains could run non stop Exeter Central - Cranbrook?

 

[REVUpminster]

My suggested service pattern would be as follows:

Paignton - Exmouth every 30 minutes, calling all stations (no or very little change from present)

Barnstaple - Axminster every 120 minutes, calling Chapelton (on request), Umberleigh, Portsmouth Arms (on request), Kings Nympton (on request), Eggesford, Yeoford, Crediton, Exeter St Davids, and all stations to Axminster

Barnstaple - Axminster every 120 minutes, calling Umberleigh, Eggesford, Lapford (on request), Morchard Road (on request), Copplestone (on request), Yeoford, Crediton, Newtown St Cyres (on request), Exeter St Davids, and all stations to Axminster

Okehampton - Axminster every 60 minutes, calling Parkway, Sampford Courtney (on request every 2 hours), Yeoford, Crediton, Newton St Cyres (on request every 2 hours opposite to Sampford Courtney), Exeter St Davids, and all stations to Axminster

Double track would be required east of Pinhoe, and somewhere between Cowley Bridge and Yeoford.

The combined frequency Yeoford - Axminster would be every 30 minutes, with a train every 60 minutes to each of Okehampton and Barnstaple. Perhaps the London Waterloo trains could run non stop Exeter Central - Cranbrook?

You need to fit in an hourly service for Wellington and Cullompton from Taunton- Exeter Central to supplement Cardiff- Exeter St Davids/Penzance service to give them a half hourly service.
I would amend above as hourly Barnstaple to Axminster stopping as now requested. With the SWR would give a half hourly service between St David's and Axminster.
Paignton- Exmouth trains should call at all stations and not have to wait at Dawlish Warren or St David's for a path to Exmouth.
it could then be marketed as Devon Metro.
For the future possibly a half hour service to Barnstaple and a 15/20 minute service to Exmouth but more passing loops required.

From a operational point of view I would encourage metro passngers to change trains at Central and inter city at St David's.
I'd also build an escalator directly from Platform 3 at Central up to Queen Street as the footbridge is too narrow for the numbers involved.

 

[323235]

Network Rail stated that Stage 2 of project Okehampton is to get Okehampton - Meldon upto standard for freight operation, so that should be resolved in time.

I'm sure it has been said that Meldon viaduct would be reused for the reopening of Bere - Okehampton, so there must be a solution to the issue otherwise it wouldn't have been seriously discussed before.

I'm sure people on this forum like to invent additional obstacles that don't exist.

 

[507020]

Network Rail stated that Stage 2 of project Okehampton is to get Okehampton - Meldon upto standard for freight operation, so that should be resolved in time.

I'm sure it has been said that Meldon viaduct would be reused for the reopening of Bere - Okehampton, so there must be a solution to the issue otherwise it wouldn't have been seriously discussed before.

I'm sure people on this forum like to invent additional obstacles that don't exist.

So does this push back Bere Alston - Tavistock to Phase 3 and Tavistock - Meldon to Phase 4? Also rather than Project Okehampton, would a better name for it not be Project Poseidon, given that it is the railway retreating inland to Okehampton to escape the perils of the sea wall at Dawlish, or at least give it self some respite given that it is not to be abandoned at all?

 

[plugwash]

(come to think of it, Peak Rail briefly does too at Matlock).

IIRC it took many years for Peak Rail to Negotiate regular operation into matlock.

I presume the points are locked to prevent peak rail trains ending up on the main line, but I think the only thing stopping mainline trains ending up on peak rail is a warning sign.

 

[nw12398]

Network Rail stated that Stage 2 of project Okehampton is to get Okehampton - Meldon upto standard for freight operation, so that should be resolved in time.

I'm sure it has been said that Meldon viaduct would be reused for the reopening of Bere - Okehampton, so there must be a solution to the issue otherwise it wouldn't have been seriously discussed before.

I'm sure people on this forum like to invent additional obstacles that don't exist.

There is plenty of evidence that the viaduct is a major obstacle to reopening Bere Alston-Okehampton (e.g. https://www.okehampton-today.co.uk/news/meldon-viaduct-may-scupper-mainline-plans-424938 ). The solution is simple, but expensive: replace the viaduct. As mentioned above it was considered unfit for trains over 30 years ago, so it's hardly conjecture to say so.

 

[Deafdoggie]

There is plenty of evidence that the viaduct is a major obstacle to reopening Bere Alston-Okehampton (e.g. https://www.okehampton-today.co.uk/news/meldon-viaduct-may-scupper-mainline-plans-424938 ). The solution is simple, but expensive: replace the viaduct. As mentioned above it was considered unfit for trains over 30 years ago, so it's hardly conjecture to say so.

Except, of course, it's a listed structure. So you'd have to keep it and build a new one, which then wouldn't align with the track bed. The costs soon make it uneconomic.

 

[zwk500]

Except, of course, it's a listed structure. So you'd have to keep it and build a new one, which then wouldn't align with the track bed.

You could dismantle it and rebuild it precisely like for like, or get an exemption/delisting. But you're absolutely right that:

The costs soon make it uneconomic.

However you go about it.

So does this push back Bere Alston - Tavistock to Phase 3 and Tavistock - Meldon to Phase 4?

It's being quite optimistic to apply phase numbers at all. Bere Alston to Tavistock is a separate project (if it ever happens) and Tavistock to Meldon isn't being seriously proposed by anybody with the money to actually see it through.

 

[nw12398]

Except, of course, it's a listed structure. So you'd have to keep it and build a new one, which then wouldn't align with the track bed. The costs soon make it uneconomic.

I think the viaduct itself being in a different position would be much more difficult than realigning the off-viaduct track bed to meet it - realignment seems fairly straightforward but the gorge that the viaduct crosses quickly widens south of the viaduct and I think it may do so north of it too.

Either way: a new viaduct south of the current one would block what is by far the best view of it, whilst going north would make it more difficult to keep the existing walking access on to the old viaduct from Okehampton. Perhaps it would be easier to get the thing delisted - obviously that would be a shame, but the choice between the railway vs. memories of the railway is an obvious one to me.