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Sunak Under Pressure to Cut Fuel Duty

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DynamicSpirit

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...except that it's the Treasury driving cuts. They don't care about anything outside their own narrow Thatcherite/monetarist dogma. Environment, poverty? Tough.

To be fair, it is the job of the Treasury to watch the Government's budget. It's the job of other ministries to deal with things like poverty and the environment - the Treasury is basically there to make sure the Government doesn't trash the economy by spending vast sums that it doesn't have (outside emergency situations like Covid, obviously). And needing to be careful of the budget is more than Thatcherite dogma - it's the reality of how finance etc. works.

Personally I would like to see more investment in railways and things like protecting the environment. But you can't really blame the Treasury for wanting to try to keep the books balanced.
 
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AndrewE

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To be fair, it is the job of the Treasury to watch the Government's budget. It's the job of other ministries to deal with things like poverty and the environment - the Treasury is basically there to make sure the Government doesn't trash the economy by spending vast sums that it doesn't have (outside emergency situations like Covid, obviously). And needing to be careful of the budget is more than Thatcherite dogma - it's the reality of how finance etc. works.

Personally I would like to see more investment in railways and things like protecting the environment. But you can't really blame the Treasury for wanting to try to keep the books balanced.
I disagree: it is Parliament's job to watch the Govt's budget, and the Ministers' jobs to ensure that they deliver what they promised the public in their manifesto.
There is no reason why a small enclave or elite with their own dogma should be allowed to trump either Parliament or the government delivering what it has promised. "Economic policy" is just what is dictated by the current fashion, and there is no reason why Keynsian economics isn't better suited to our current predicament - except that it gets in the way of our own plutocrats (aka oligarchs) nowadays.
 

brad465

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The FT are reporting initial expectations from tomorrow's statement, which include a cut in fuel tax, but also setting aside most of the windfall being reported, in a move expected to anger sections of the Tory Party who want it all put towards helping the cost of living crisis in general:


The official forecasts in the Spring Statement will show the deficit is at least £20bn better than expected this year, but Sunak will use only some of the money to help households...
 

al78

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Your rail journey receives subsidy (on most TOCs), so I don't think you have any right to feel aggrieved in that manner, rather you should be pleased your journey does receive subsidy.
Car journeys are subsidised through the costs they externalise on society.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

As I already stated, pretty much everyone is impacted by fuel cost. Even if you don't drive and never take a taxi or a lift off others nor travel by diesel bus, every product you ever purchase has been carried at some point in a diesel lorry or van.

It's not really a simple reduction, anyway, it's balancing the added VAT from the price increase.
What percentage of the cost of everyday products such as food is the cost of transport? The low price of vegetables in supermarkets (£1.50 for 450g of carrots for example) despite the fact that the price has to cover things like the cost of farming and the farmer's profit, the cost of running a supermarket and its profit, and the cost of food processing and packaging plus labour costs, and/or the cost of flying it in from overseas if it is out of season, suggests that the cost of petrol/diesel doesn't contribute very much to the price of the final product.
 
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PG

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It's quite interesting that drivers are being seen similarly to smokers, where smoking on planes, trains, cinemas and even in hospitals was tolerated until all the bans came in, but for years we saw nothing wrong in inhaling second hand smoke everywhere we went. Is pollution as bad? Smokers hurth themselves more than other people but drivers hurt others more than themselves as carbon emissions make more of an impact than smoking in open spaces.
I think that at some point in the future we may well find out that it is as bad. Much like the effects of smoking were first published in the early 1950s and it took another 50 odd years for any great measures become acceptable to the public, then it may be the same for road traffic pollution. Until such time as the public are prepared to accept measures that will, ultimately, increase their cost of living (longer and healthier) the status quo will prevail...

Meanwhile it seems either or both the BBC and RAC haven't quite got the hang of percentages, as this graphic contains no mention of rounding errors!
_123819122_price_of_petrol_v2_640-nc.png

Image shows a graphic depiction of the cost apportionment of petrol in percentages.
 

Mikey C

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It's quite interesting that drivers are being seen similarly to smokers, where smoking on planes, trains, cinemas and even in hospitals was tolerated until all the bans came in, but for years we saw nothing wrong in inhaling second hand smoke everywhere we went. Is pollution as bad? Smokers hurth themselves more than other people but drivers hurt others more than themselves as carbon emissions make more of an impact than smoking in open spaces.
Some of the comments here about the effects of pollution are very city centric

Traffic pollution in the centre of major towns and cities is clearly a very serious issue, but that's simply not the case in rural areas, with their open countryside/fields and low population density.
 

Howardh

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Personally I'd rather him abolish VAT on home energy than fuel duty, but he should do both as he's taking in far more than expected in revenue.
 

brad465

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5p cut in fuel duty official, taking effect from 18:00 tonight. VAT also being cut to 0% on energy saving materials like insulation and solar panels.
 

Watershed

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There's also a significant increase in the National Insurance threshold to match the Income Tax threshold of £12,570. Meaning anyone earning at or above that threshold will benefit from a £323 a year reduction in their NI 'bill'.

This means that, despite the 1.25% rate increase, anyone earning less than £35,704 a year will end up paying less NI than today - but anyone earning more than that will still pay more (albeit £323 a year less than they were due to pay until today's announcement).
 

Howardh

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5p cut in fuel duty official, taking effect from 18:00 tonight. VAT also being cut to 0% on energy saving materials like insulation and solar panels.
The cut in fuel duty is welcome, but nothing there at all to help pensioners. The triple lock hasn't been returned, and the NI threshold raise is no use to them.
Edit - Browsing the financial sites this has been more than noted in all comments sections.
The government need absolutely hammering over the lack of support for pensioners.
 
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Mikey C

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5p cut in fuel duty official, taking effect from 18:00 tonight. VAT also being cut to 0% on energy saving materials like insulation and solar panels.
Worth noting that the fuel duty cut is for one year only
 

deltic

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I disagree: it is Parliament's job to watch the Govt's budget, and the Ministers' jobs to ensure that they deliver what they promised the public in their manifesto.
There is no reason why a small enclave or elite with their own dogma should be allowed to trump either Parliament or the government delivering what it has promised. "Economic policy" is just what is dictated by the current fashion, and there is no reason why Keynsian economics isn't better suited to our current predicament - except that it gets in the way of our own plutocrats (aka oligarchs) nowadays.
Parliament sets the government's budget the Treasury ensures that Parliament's budget is stuck to. The Treasury is not a free entity that does what it wants - it does what the Chancellor of the day tells it to do.
 

duncanp

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Worth noting that the fuel duty cut is for one year only

At the moment - there is nothing stopping the chancellor extending the cut in fuel duty in a future budget.

The cut in fuel duty is welcome, but nothing there at all to help pensioners. The triple lock hasn't been returned, and the NI threshold raise is no use to them.
Edit - Browsing the financial sites this has been more than noted in all comments sections.
The government need absolutely hammering over the lack of support for pensioners.

The cut in income tax from 2024 will benefit pensioners.
 

Kite159

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At the moment - there is nothing stopping the chancellor extending the cut in fuel duty in a future budget
He will probably extend the cut until after the next election as a large banana skin if Labour happens to get back into power (God help us if they do).

Afterall labour do have form at increasing fuel duty when they are in power.

As for the 5p a litre cut, better than nothing. At least it will help out a little bit for those who have to use their cars to get to work (due to public transport being unsuitable or non existent).
 

Howardh

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At the moment - there is nothing stopping the chancellor extending the cut in fuel duty in a future budget.



The cut in income tax from 2024 will benefit pensioners.
Wealthy ones, yes. State pension alone doesn't reach the threshold.
 

HSTEd

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Parliament sets the government's budget the Treasury ensures that Parliament's budget is stuck to. The Treasury is not a free entity that does what it wants - it does what the Chancellor of the day tells it to do.

The chancellor tells it to do what the civil service apparatus in the treasury tells him to do.

The mechanisms by which the civil service can capture a minister and convert them into little more than a puppet are well known.

Ultimately this is just a desperate attempt to paper over the disaster that has been energy policy for the last 40 years.
It's been a long time coming, but the rot of privatisation has finally started bring the entire rotting edifice down.

And all the government is ideologically capable of conceiving as a solution is a sticking plaster on a gangrenous limb.
 

Mikey C

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At the moment - there is nothing stopping the chancellor extending the cut in fuel duty in a future budget.
The point being though, that it's a specific temporary cut due to the extraordinary spike in oil prices. Nobody knows what the situation will be like in a year's time, as it's so dependant on external factors such as Russia...
 

duncanp

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The point being though, that it's a specific temporary cut due to the extraordinary spike in oil prices. Nobody knows what the situation will be like in a year's time, as it's so dependant on external factors such as Russia...

...or how near we are to the next election.

Can't be a coincidence that the cut to income tax is scheduled to come into effect in April 2024, with May 2024 a likely date for the next general election.
 

deltic

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The chancellor tells it to do what the civil service apparatus in the treasury tells him to do.

The mechanisms by which the civil service can capture a minister and convert them into little more than a puppet are well known.
Is this view based on personal experience working there? Was not my experience in the 5 years I spent there.
 

ChrisC

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Some of the comments here about the effects of pollution are very city centric

Traffic pollution in the centre of major towns and cities is clearly a very serious issue, but that's simply not the case in rural areas, with their open countryside/fields and low population density.
I’ve found quite a few postings earlier in this thread to be like that in relation to car ownership. As I pointed out earlier, for people living in a rural area with limited public transport, owning a car is often an expensive necessity rather than a wasteful luxury. Cutting fuel duty by 5p a litre is better than nothing but I have the feeling that if things don’t improve in Ukraine, 5p and more will very quickly go back on the price of fuel.

For those who have lived all of their lives in urban areas, and especially large cities, and have only experienced living in a rural area for a short holiday, it is difficult to appreciate what is like to have infrequent or no public transport and often no shops for many miles. I don’t live in a very isolated area, being less than 10 miles from a large city, but even here I am almost 2 miles from the nearest shops in a nearby town with no evening or Sunday buses. My cousin’s wife has only ever lived in London and finds it very hard to adapt whenever she visits. I get the impression that she thinks we are very primitive with no shops, limited buses, few street lights at night and above all no pavements and mud on the road.
 

seagull

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So 5p more a litre for the filling stations that have rushed to put prices up even in between fuel deliveries so as to maximise profits.
Or will we actually see any price decrease?
 

HSTEd

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Is this view based on personal experience working there? Was not my experience in the 5 years I spent there.
I have not personally worked there, but just something I got from osmosis from several people I know to have dealings with (including working in) the treasury and indeed with the rest of the civil service.
 

birchesgreen

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My local garage has gone back down to 162.9p with the tax cut, so back to how it was in the halcyon days of Monday.
 

AlterEgo

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That photo shoot with the mic on is terribly cringe. I wouldn’t let Sunak borrow my car.
 
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