Crossrail - Construction updates and progress towards opening (now expected 24 May 2022)

[AM9]

I know that 24tph was always the claimed target. I was asking if they have ever demonstrated that it will be achievable in real life. Personally I doubt it: the rail industry has a history of promising capabilities that turn out to be impossible to deliver.

I think that 20tph has been achieved a couple of years ago pre COVID-19, - you need to look at the class 700 thread. Meanwhile, that has nothing to do with the uniqueness of the Crossrail stations in terms of their platform lengths.

 

[Nottingham59]

that has nothing to do with the uniqueness of the Crossrail stations in terms of their platform lengths.

True. But it has everything to do with the failure of Crossrail to deliver any passenger service at all for the past four years

 

[AM9]

True. But it has everything to do with the failure of Crossrail to deliver any passenger service at all for the past four years

No it hasn't, Crossrail is c 3 years late (split hairs if you want), or expressed as a proportion of the programme length, less than 25% late. Such a delay, whilst regrettable, is hardly exceptional in many countries including the UK. Arguably, the lack of Crossrail in the last two years has had very little impact on passenger travel in Central London during a period of what can be described as historically low demand. If we are looking for a scapegoat here, I don't think selecting Bombardier stock was the wisest decision.
TL is a different proposition in terms of maximum core throughput, - designed (in both infrastructure and rolling stock) to deliver up to 24tph, within the limitations of 150year old victorian infrastructure, and multiple feeds from four already congested main trunk routes through London suburb. The tests conducted in 2018/9 showed that it could provide at least 20 tph when using ATO, and all approaching trains destined for the core given the appropriate priority.
All of this has nothing to do with the title of the thread, i.e. 'construction updates and progress towards opening'.

 

[WesternS]

Not him, but I have strong opinions on the subject of architects and architecture critics, of which "incestuous" is probably the kindest.

Yes, no doubt that explains the snark towards (late) Will Alsop in the article. As for incestuous, no doubt partly a function of it being a small field, partly that one person's Brutalist masterpiece is another person's ugly carbuncle etc etc. As for architects, well, I've expressed my thoughts on their skills on this board before. Doesn't mean to say that Rowan Moore doesn't know more about architecture than me - I have zero doubt he does - and as you note they can, at times, be incredibly pretentious. Rowan Moore's article on this subject steers well clear of that and does focus on the outputs of the designs and construction of the same.

 

[Taunton]

All of this has nothing to do with the title of the thread, i.e. 'construction updates and progress towards opening'.

Well I think one thing that IS relevant to the thread title is why do we not get any updates on when the opening is actually proposed - indeed, going to happen. Surely there is a project plan in place in these final weeks for all the remaining steps - it would be ludicrous if there were not. Any worthwhile project has this absolutely written in stone in the project managers office.

Going round saying "yeah, first half of 2022" at this stage is just amateurish.

 

[bramling]

Well I think one thing that IS relevant to the thread title is why do we not get any updates on when the opening is actually proposed - indeed, going to happen. Surely there is a project plan in place in these final weeks for all the remaining steps - it would be ludicrous if there were not. Any worthwhile project has this absolutely written in stone in the project managers office.

Going round saying "yeah, first half of 2022" at this stage is just amateurish.

I think they're over keen to avoid what happened in 2018 - which was that one minute they were on course for opening in Dec 18 (despite it being very obvious just from looking at the building sites that they were nowhere near finished), next minute it was going to be years late. All this looked bad for image-conscious Khan, hence now extreme caution in committing to anything.

They are genuinely not too far off now, though.

 

[InOban]

Not amateurish in the slightest. Any one of these test events could have brought to light an issue which had to be addressed before the ORR would sanction its opening. Assuming that today's event went to plan, they should now be in a position to submit the last of the paperwork. I believe there's another software update due as well. I would hope that then public use will be authorised.
That's the professional way. Pretending three +years ago that it was about to open when it manifestly wasn't, that's amateurish.

 

[Horizon22]

Well I think one thing that IS relevant to the thread title is why do we not get any updates on when the opening is actually proposed - indeed, going to happen. Surely there is a project plan in place in these final weeks for all the remaining steps - it would be ludicrous if there were not. Any worthwhile project has this absolutely written in stone in the project managers office.

Going round saying "yeah, first half of 2022" at this stage is just amateurish.

Not particularly. There are still a lot of variables and various "ducks in a row" which need to align, most of which are there. Some of these presumably had a time period (say February - March) to be completed with no guaranteed there would not be unforeseen events. Given how badly wrong Dec 2018 was as a remotely practical date, there is understandably an air of additional caution. If you watch any videos from Crossrail senior management they always use phrases like "absolutely certain we can deliver". It would be rather unforgiveable given all the delays they'd set out a time and then delayed it yet again. A six month period (of which we are bang in the middle) gives scope, but no doubt a date has been set (my money is on a Sunday in May) with a provisional back up

That being said it will only be a month or two, this last exercise was the last mass-user one planned, although there well be another before opening.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Mar 2022 ==

I think they're over keen to avoid what happened in 2018 - which was that one minute they were on course for opening in Dec 18 (despite it being very obvious just from looking at the building sites that they were nowhere near finished), next minute it was going to be years late.

Indeed - now that was amateurish.

 

[AM9]

Well I think one thing that IS relevant to the thread title is why do we not get any updates on when the opening is actually proposed - indeed, going to happen. Surely there is a project plan in place in these final weeks for all the remaining steps - it would be ludicrous if there were not. Any worthwhile project has this absolutely written in stone in the project managers office.

Going round saying "yeah, first half of 2022" at this stage is just amateurish.

I don't think that advance notice of the opening date of a complex and expensive engineering project like Crossrail should be announced until all uncertainties have been cleared just to satify enthusiasts. It's not as if there aren't alternative routes to travel between it's stations. Maybe you haven't experienced a technologically testing project. Patience is a virtue.
Unless you are looking for another failure to meet a promise that was forced out of the programme team just so that the 'told you so' commnets could start. There's no virtue in calling out delays for the sake of it.

 

[pacenotes]

If yesterday was the last big passenger station exercise, They must have all gone ok? Does anyone know if they need to redo any?

There is a train software update over Easter and then maybe 2 weeks full running?

I'm going the end of May myself, In time for the Queens events.

 

[Kite159]

I reckon when it does eventually open it will be low key with a press release after it has open. Maybe with an 'official' opening with Prince Charles cutting a ribbon a couple days later.

Only to save the hassle of hundreds of people waiting at Abbey Wood & Paddington overnight so they can claim to be on the first public service.

Although knowing TfL it will probably be an all singing all dancing launch day event costing lots of money.

 

[Taunton]

I don't think that advance notice of the opening date of a complex and expensive engineering project like Crossrail should be announced until all uncertainties have been cleared just to satify enthusiasts. It's not as if there aren't alternative routes to travel between it's stations. Maybe you haven't experienced a technologically testing project.

I think I've handled more than a few.

I've done some sophisticated projects where, by this stage, the client is taking detailed bookings to use it.

 

[eldomtom2]

As for incestuous, no doubt partly a function of it being a small field, partly that one person's Brutalist masterpiece is another person's ugly carbuncle etc etc.

There are particular factors that make the architectural community developing insulated tastes worrying though.

Rowan Moore's article on this subject steers well clear of that and does focus on the outputs of the designs and construction of the same.

Because it is mainly not an architecture review.

 

[dosxuk]

I think I've handled more than a few.

I've done some sophisticated projects where, by this stage, the client is taking detailed bookings to use it.

What benefit do the Crossrail delivery team get from publicly announcing an opening date?

 

[AM9]

I think I've handled more than a few.

I've done some sophisticated projects where, by this stage, the client is taking detailed bookings to use it.

Obviously not as technically challenging as some of the projects that I've been on.

 

[InOban]

The ceremonial opening of most major projects is quite a long time after they've come into use.

 

[greyman42]

What benefit do the Crossrail delivery team get from publicly announcing an opening date?

Surely it's for the benefit of the public?

 

[AM9]

Surely it's for the benefit of the public?

Not really, the line capacity isn't really needed yet as flows have not fully reached pre pandemic levels. The only people burning to know the opening day are some enthusiasts.

 

[BayPaul]

Surely it's for the benefit of the public?

I'd say that a smooth, successful and non-rescheduled launch would achieve the most benefit for the public and TfL. Announcing the date only when it is absolutely certain would be part of achieving that.

 

[dosxuk]

Surely it's for the benefit of the public?

And what benefit does the general public get from hearing an opening date? Other than the aforementioned enthusiasts desperate to be on the first services, obviously. There's plenty of disbenefits for them though if the line doesn't open on the announced date - or even if it opens at lunchtime when people expect it from the start of service.

The capacity the line represents isn't needed right now, there's been plenty of delays already, and there's no real benefit to anyone to set a fixed target - the entire opening plan is even deliberately designed to decouple it from the wider railway timetable changes by only opening the standalone section to begin with. It's far better for everyone involved to remove the unnecessary pressure a fixed opening date represents and allow them to open it when it's ready. It's not like this is the Jubilee line which had to be open to serve the Millennium Dome, this can wait a week, or open a week early from it's planned date* depending on it's readiness.

(*And yes, there will absolutely be a planned date for service introduction, this discussion isn't about aiming for a date, it's about whether you need to tell the public what that date is).

 

[The exile]

Might we even see a shortish period of through running of actual trains which are ecs through the core and then “stealth opened” without any announcement at all - the only people who would need to know exactly when are the staff ( and emergency services?)

 

[greyman42]

Not really, the line capacity isn't really needed yet as flows have not fully reached pre pandemic levels. The only people burning to know the opening day are some enthusiasts.

It will be handy for me to get to Canary Wharf from Farringdon, hence an opening date would be useful.

 

[pacenotes]

Well, they know the day but just won't be telling us yet...

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/crossrail-elizabeth-line-opening-date-tfl-b987951.html

A precise opening date has been earmarked for Crossrail – but London’s transport chief says he is not yet ready to share it with the public.

Transport for London commissioner Andy Byford promised that the date he is targeting for the start of Elizabeth line services under central London would be announced “soon”.

The opening date will definitely be before June 30 this year, as he previously pledged after taking control of the long-delayed £20bn train line, Mr Byford told the London Assembly on Monday.

Mr Byford, sensing the increasing excitement from Londoners about the imminent opening of Crossrail, said: “I am very confident that we will be able to announce an opening date soon.”

 

[InOban]

AIR, ORR usually announce Permission to Open in the morning. I would open as soon afterwards as they can open all the gates.

 

[ijmad]

AIR, ORR usually announce Permission to Open in the morning. I would open as soon afterwards as they can open all the gates.

There might be some value in opening on a Sunday as some other railway projects have

 

[Peter Sarf]

There might be some value in opening on a Sunday as some other railway projects have

Well that narrows it down to about 13 dates .

 

[Larkhall]

Well, they know the day but just won't be telling us yet...

Elizabeth Line has an opening date - but TfL won’t reveal it yet

A precise opening date has been earmarked for Crossrail – but London’s transport chief says he is not yet ready to share it with the public.

www.standard.co.uk

Comment within that it's unlikely to happen within Purdah, so potentially no sooner than 5th May?

 

[AM9]

It will be handy for me to get to Canary Wharf from Farringdon, hence an opening date would be useful.

"Useful" is not the same imperative as the eagerness that some first time trippers will be in a lather about. The lines 'handiness' will become apparent to many when it opens, but if there's a last minute hitch, there's no point in giving a date as they will all blame TfL for their lateness and inconveniences when it's their own fault for relying on something unsafe.

 

[Grozec]

I think I've handled more than a few.

I've done some sophisticated projects where, by this stage, the client is taking detailed bookings to use it.

Well there could be a more specific target date given, the public already has a very negative view of what was happening, as the previous management has made some terrible PR decisions and it's easier to just avoid another PR nightmare if something goes wrong, especially with potentially mere weeks or at most 3.5 months to go.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Not really, the line capacity isn't really needed yet as flows have not fully reached pre pandemic levels. The only people burning to know the opening day are some enthusiasts.

That's true. I'm a Londoner and I'll use this line every so often, but I'm not desperate for it to open as soon as possible.