Arriva Buses (including Greenline)

[TheGrandWazoo]

Mayhem in Blyth this morning, electricity was off and they have no way of opening the depot doors without it. Services back to normal at 08 30!

Regarding the future of the depot, reading the councils blurb about creating an attractive gateway between the market and the quayside, I can't see how the depot could be part of that?!!

I bumped into one of my old supervisors the other day, he reckons Blyth will shut and a new depot at Cramlington open. Mind, he also thinks he is inline for a big redundancy package, so I am not quite sure of his grasp on reality.

The developments with Blyth and Jesmond are a little bit opaque.

Jesmond is going to be sold (sadly) and from what you say, there's going to be a smaller depot at Walkergate but only for minis? That would seem a bit pointless tbh.

In the meantime, and when I was up there in Blyth, I did have a wander around the site and saw the planning notice. Looks like demolition of the steam cleaning bay and a few other ancillary buildings to create a bit more space. However, I still think the depot and bus station is on borrowed time and they will cash in when the town centre redevelopment takes place.

It was always rumoured that Blyth and Ashington would close in favour of a SE Northumberland super depot. With the investment in Ashington, that isn't going to happen now (at least, I'd be surprised). These super depots haven't worked well in the North East (note the decline of Arriva in South Durham after centralising in Darlington, or the challenges for Go North East after closing South Shields) so you'd hope they don't go down that line.

 

[Andy Pacer]

I bumped into one of my old supervisors the other day, he reckons Blyth will shut and a new depot at Cramlington open. Mind, he also thinks he is inline for a big redundancy package, so I am not quite sure of his grasp on reality.

I was under the impression the plan was for Jesmond to be downsized and work moved around, which will include an outstation potentially near Cramlington.

 

[Blindtraveler]

It possibly demonstrates how uambitious arriva are that they haven't opened and outstation or even a full-scale small depot in Berwick and and gone for some of the tendered work in the borders


They are obviously content to let west coast motors rule the roost there and concentrate on services along the A1 corridor to the south

 

[Andy Pacer]

It possibly demonstrates how uambitious arriva are that they haven't opened and outstation or even a full-scale small depot in Berwick and and gone for some of the tendered work in the borders


They are obviously content to let west coast motors rule the roost there and concentrate on services along the A1 corridor to the south

Would be interesting to see the viability of a full depot vs the marginal nature of tendered services. Even an outstation of Ashington would give operational challenges.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It possibly demonstrates how uambitious arriva are that they haven't opened and outstation or even a full-scale small depot in Berwick and and gone for some of the tendered work in the borders


They are obviously content to let west coast motors rule the roost there and concentrate on services along the A1 corridor to the south

Arriva couldn't make it pay when they did have the depot at Scremerston near Berwick; hence why they sold out to Perrymans who later sold out themselves to WCM

 

[Llandudno]

Have Arriva ditched the Sapphire and Max brands?

In north Wales it seems that the once prestigious Route 12 Llandudno-Rhyl which operated a 10 minute frequency when the Sapphire brand was launched in a fanfare with sparkly new buses, was subsequently reduced to a 12 minute headway and now operates every 15 minutes with ‘normal’ standard bland Arriva livery.

 

[route101]

Looking to ride the 724 from Heathrow to Harlow, is their any day ticket valid on this for the entire route?

 

[Andyh82]

Have Arriva ditched the Sapphire and Max brands?

In north Wales it seems that the once prestigious Route 12 Llandudno-Rhyl which operated a 10 minute frequency when the Sapphire brand was launched in a fanfare with sparkly new buses, was subsequently reduced to a 12 minute headway and now operates every 15 minutes with ‘normal’ standard bland Arriva livery.

MAX stopped being current when the new livery was introduced but obviously still exists on routes and buses that carry it
Sapphire still exists in the new world

Arriva Wales must have decided not to keep the Sapphire livery on service 12 as is their choice

 

[43055]

Have Arriva ditched the Sapphire and Max brands?

In north Wales it seems that the once prestigious Route 12 Llandudno-Rhyl which operated a 10 minute frequency when the Sapphire brand was launched in a fanfare with sparkly new buses, was subsequently reduced to a 12 minute headway and now operates every 15 minutes with ‘normal’ standard bland Arriva livery.

Sapphire still remains with the new livery. It may be a case that some of the vehicles have been rebranded but are still used in one pool. Bus times shows 8 sapphire vehicles on the 12 today with 4 standard ones. Bit like the 38 in Derby but that is becuase 2 of the Sapphire buses left to another depot leaving 5 branded buses for a requirement of 7.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Sapphire still remains with the new livery. It may be a case that some of the vehicles have been rebranded but are still used in one pool. Bus times shows 8 sapphire vehicles on the 12 today with 4 standard ones. Bit like the 38 in Derby but that is becuase 2 of the Sapphire buses left to another depot leaving 5 branded buses for a requirement of 7.

Presumably Derby was short before the frequency was reduced as well then?

 

[A0]

Looking to ride the 724 from Heathrow to Harlow, is their any day ticket valid on this for the entire route?

You probably need to check - certainly Intalink Explorer is only valid to Maple Cross.

 

[Blindtraveler]

This is a fascinating route, I've just looked it up and did not know it existed. As far as I was aware the only way of transferring from Heathrow to Essex by road was either a taxi or National express. The National express is charged at a bit of a premium as it's designed for airport to airport transfers really. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

[A0]

This is a fascinating root, I've just looked it up and did not know it existed. As far as I was aware the only way of transferring from Heathrow to Essex by road was either a taxi or National express. The National express is charged at a bit of a premium as it's designed for airport to airport transfers really. Thanks for bringing it to my attention and I must

It's the last vestage of the LT era Green Line network - originally High Wycombe to Romford IIRC. At various times in the subsequent 50 years it's been extended to Stansted, Slough and Windsor, but since the mid/late 80s has been Heathrow - Harlow. But it is a slow journey because it serves a number of purposes including linking a number of towns east-west.

 

[Deerfold]

Looking to ride the 724 from Heathrow to Harlow, is their any day ticket valid on this for the entire route?

No. They stopped the current ones being valid a few years ago.

They were talking about introducing new tickets which are, but it's gone very quiet.

 

[Blindtraveler]

What stock does this service use?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What stock does this service use?

Stock? Vehicles!

The 724 uses these, transferred in from Maidstone. This was the one that took me to Harlow in September

 

[alex397]

What stock does this service use?

Sadly just bog standard Enviro200 MMCs, which are really not suitable for a long distance route such as this, but that’s Arriva for you!
They used to have much more suitable Citaros with decent seats and luggage racks, but these fell foul of London restrictions.
Of course, few people would travel Heathrow to Harlow, but many people travel quite long distances in this route.

 

[cnjb8]

Sapphire still remains with the new livery. It may be a case that some of the vehicles have been rebranded but are still used in one pool. Bus times shows 8 sapphire vehicles on the 12 today with 4 standard ones. Bit like the 38 in Derby but that is becuase 2 of the Sapphire buses left to another depot leaving 5 branded buses for a requirement of 7.

Presumably Derby was short before the frequency was reduced as well then?

Didn't Derby get one or two Gemini's from Wigston in their place?

 

[route101]

You probably need to check - certainly Intalink Explorer is only valid to Maple Cross.

No. They stopped the current ones being valid a few years ago.

They were talking about introducing new tickets which are, but it's gone very quiet.

Yes, the map shows the ticket valid for most of the route or its £12 single if I remember. Would be handy to use the arriva routes at the Harlow end.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Didn't Derby get one or two Gemini's from Wigston in their place?

One as far as I know, but not a Sapphire.

 

[A0]

Sadly just bog standard Enviro200 MMCs, which are really not suitable for a long distance route such as this, but that’s Arriva for you!
They used to have much more suitable Citaros with decent seats and luggage racks, but these fell foul of London restrictions.
Of course, few people would travel Heathrow to Harlow, but many people travel quite long distances in this route.

Define "long distances" - the thing with the 724 is it is mainly used for relatively short journeys e.g. Hertford - St Albans, Hatfield - St Albans or Watford, Harlow - Hertford where the alternative routes also use standard bus vehicles (a number of which are not Arriva).

Even end to end the 724 is only ~ 60 miles.

 

[Robertj21a]

Define "long distances" - the thing with the 724 is it is mainly used for relatively short journeys e.g. Hertford - St Albans, Hatfield - St Albans or Watford, Harlow - Hertford where the alternative routes also use standard bus vehicles (a number of which are not Arriva).

Even end to end the 724 is only ~ 60 miles.

Isn't 60 miles quite a length for an ordinary service bus around the London area ?

 

[43055]

Presumably Derby was short before the frequency was reduced as well then?

Only during the weekday peaks I think.

Didn't Derby get one or two Gemini's from Wigston in their place?

One as far as I know, but not a Sapphire.

They got 4204 from Leicester but is not a Sapphire vehicle. Derby a also has 4544 in place of 4600/4545 but spends most of its time on the 1/1A.

 

[alex397]

Define "long distances" - the thing with the 724 is it is mainly used for relatively short journeys e.g. Hertford - St Albans, Hatfield - St Albans or Watford, Harlow - Hertford where the alternative routes also use standard bus vehicles (a number of which are not Arriva).

Even end to end the 724 is only ~ 60 miles.

People generally tend to travel longer distances on that route than average routes. And in my opinion, I don’t agree with the British trend of using ordinary buses on long inter-urban routes.

And if we are to encourage longer distance travellers, especially from an airport, then luggage racks and more coach-like seats would make the journey more comfortable. Just like the Citaros which were replaced.

The 724 is also probably the best way to travel between Watford and Heathrow without going in to central London. It’s a journey of an hour on a bus, but I don’t think this is promoted very well.

 

[317 forever]

Despite the general cutbacks within Arriva, they are due to take up 2 route tenders from Manchester Airport in April: Routes 18 to Eccles and 288 as far as Altrincham, currently Diamond and Little Gem respectively.

 

[A0]

People generally tend to travel longer distances on that route than average routes. And in my opinion, I don’t agree with the British trend of using ordinary buses on long inter-urban routes.

And if we are to encourage longer distance travellers, especially from an airport, then luggage racks and more coach-like seats would make the journey more comfortable. Just like the Citaros which were replaced.

The 724 is also probably the best way to travel between Watford and Heathrow without going in to central London. It’s a journey of an hour on a bus, but I don’t think this is promoted very well.

The problem with coach type vehicles was they were slower to load which caused delays which is why they were replaced initially with DAF SB220s then Citaros - both of which are buses rather than coaches.

Clearly Arriva don't see the need for the luggage racks and instead feel the extra seats are a better use of space ?

 

[alex397]

The problem with coach type vehicles was they were slower to load which caused delays which is why they were replaced initially with DAF SB220s then Citaros - both of which are buses rather than coaches.

This is why ideally the 724 and other routes like it should have vehicles like a Citaro with seats more ideal for longer distance (1 hour plus) travel.

Clearly Arriva don't see the need for the luggage racks and instead feel the extra seats are a better use of space ?

That’s not very clear. The Citaros had to be replaced due to the low emission zone. So some standard Enviro200MMCs were cobbled together from other depots to replace them. Ideally Arriva would be ordering brand new buses perhaps with specifications for this particular route. Just like the Citaros were in 2006 with seats more suited to longer distance, luggage racks and full Greenline branding.
Not entirely blaming Arriva, as with the state of the bus industry it would be a big investment to order new buses for this route.

 

[M803UYA]

This is why ideally the 724 and other routes like it should have vehicles like a Citaro with seats more ideal for longer distance (1 hour plus) travel.

That’s not very clear. The Citaros had to be replaced due to the low emission zone. So some standard Enviro200MMCs were cobbled together from other depots to replace them. Ideally Arriva would be ordering brand new buses perhaps with specifications for this particular route. Just like the Citaros were in 2006 with seats more suited to longer distance, luggage racks and full Greenline branding.
Not entirely blaming Arriva, as with the state of the bus industry it would be a big investment to order new buses for this route.

Logically you'd order new vehicles for the route. Problem is Arriva doesn't achieve their targets, and new investment is conditional on achieving budget. Hence the current mess of robbing from somewhere else.
Whether or not the budget is achievable is a moot point - it was often suggested it might not have been.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Logically you'd order new vehicles for the route. Problem is Arriva doesn't achieve their targets, and new investment is conditional on achieving budget. Hence the current mess of robbing from somewhere else.
Whether or not the budget is achievable is a moot point - it was often suggested it might not have been.

The problem is that there is a lack of available capital across DB and Arriva Bus UK has to try to get their share against everyone else.

Given the paucity of investment over recent years, it's arguable that there are other cases that are most pressing

 

[M803UYA]

The problem is that there is a lack of available capital across DB and Arriva Bus UK has to try to get their share against everyone else.

Given the paucity of investment over recent years, it's arguable that there are other cases that are most pressing

This too, but there were documents which worked on the 'excuse' of budget not being achieved being a reason for non investment. I wish now I'd taken a photo of the document which sat beside my desk on the wall from my time there, it was in some very tiny print.