British Rail EMU/DMUs thin on the ground

[387star]

It's just struck me how within the last five years or so especially many ex BR multiple units as well as Intercity stock has left us or has grown thin in number

It seems GWR Northern and Scotrail will end up having the oldest fleets.

There's talk of Southern 455 and 313 units taken off lease in the near future

This would leave Southeastern as the largest operator of ex BR stock in the southeast ?

I guess few travellers miss the stock but I have fond memories of the traction motors on 455s for example

Pacers gone 153s, 313, 313, 314, 315, 319, 321, 322, 365 also all rapidly in decline and 507/8 down to disappear

Question is whether the new stock will last as long ? Quite amazing how many new trains have been pushed through in recent years

 

[joncombe]

Chiltern is almost entirely ex BR stock I think (165, 168, mk3, albeit hauled by 68s in that case) plus a few 170s which are post BR. Though I think some of their 168s maybe post BR. Also Transport for Wales is at least at the moment mostly ex BR (I think only the 175s are newer), though I know they have a some new stock on order but don't think it's in service yet.

 

[43096]

Chiltern is almost entirely ex BR stock I think (165, 168, mk3, albeit hauled by 68s in that case) plus a few 170s which are post BR. Though I think some of their 168s maybe post BR. Also Transport for Wales is at least at the moment mostly ex BR (I think only the 175s are newer), though I know they have a some new stock on order but don't think it's in service yet.

All the 168s are post-BR.

 

[DanNCL]

By my reckoning, once all currently ordered new stock is in service and assuming the 313s and 455s go, the following ex-BR stock will be left in passenger service, by operator:

Chiltern:
165

CrossCountry:
HST

EMR:
Class 158

Eurostar:
Class 373*
(whilst technically never operated by BR, BR owned some of the sets)

GWR:
Class 150
Class 158
Class 165
Class 166
HST
Class 57+Mark 3

London Underground:
1992 stock*
(the 5 Waterloo & City line sets were operated by BR for a short period before LU took over operation of the line and the trains)

LNER:
Class 91+Mark 4

Northern:
Class 150
Class 155
Class 156
Class 158
Class 323
Class 769

ScotRail:
Class 153
Class 156
Class 158
Class 318
Class 320
HST

Southeastern:
Class 465
Class 466

SWR:
Class 158
Class 159

TFW:
Class 153
Mark 4

Chiltern is almost entirely ex BR stock I think (165, 168, mk3, albeit hauled by 68s in that case) plus a few 170s which are post BR. Though I think some of their 168s maybe post BR. Also Transport for Wales is at least at the moment mostly ex BR (I think only the 175s are newer), though I know they have a some new stock on order but don't think it's in service yet.

The 168s are all post-BR. The class number was also used by BR as a proposed Networker class, but was never built, and not related to the 168s that were built in the privatisation era.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Northern also have 156s

 

[Mikey C]

It is roughly 25 years since privatisation, so not unreasonable that the number of BR era trains is declining now. The last of the BR DMUs - the 158/9s and the 165/6s will be around for a long time.

The 1990s EMUs seem to have had a shorter life, the the 365s and 332s going/gone, though the 323s and most of the 465s should be around for a while

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

East Midlands Railways still run 156s a lot.
The long life of British-Rail's multiple units are proof of how well engineered the units were, and also how stingy the train companies have been.

Intercity 125s have become so iconic, they are part of our national identity, it'll be sad when none are in service.

 

[greyman42]

158s have aged very well and i can see them being around for a while yet.

 

[pdeaves]

The 168s are all post-BR

Yes, and happen to be the first post-privatisation stock ordered (finally breaking the >1,000 day famine of orders).

 

[Mordac]

WMT have 323s and 319s.

 

[cjmillsnun]

WMT have 323s and 319s.

The 323s are on their way to Northern soon.

 

[TrainTrackJack]

The 323s are on their way to Northern soon.

Bar 7 - they will need a new home.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Bar 7 - they will need a new home.

They will likely become Christmas trees to keep the others in service.

 

[43096]

Bar 7 - they will need a new home.

It’s nine without a future lease. Although isn’t that the number of units needed for the Bolton-Wigan wiring scheme?

 

[TrainTrackJack]

It’s nine without a future lease. Although isn’t that the number of units needed for the Bolton-Wigan wiring scheme?

Never heard nine before, as 7 gone would leave 36 in traffic. But I can’t argue with the facts!
And no clue about the Bolton service. Someone with a more knowledgeable understanding of that may take over from me on that

 

[jonesy3001]

Never heard nine before, as 7 gone would leave 36 in traffic. But I can’t argue with the facts!
And no clue about the Bolton service. Someone with a more knowledgeable understanding of that may take over from me on that

Probably use the extra 9 when the stalybridge to wigan north western via lostock jct is electrified.

 

[XAM2175]

What's happening with Northern's 319s?

 

[jonesy3001]

What's happening with Northern's 319s?

Scrap or conversion that many threads about them cannot keep up with what's what.

 

[Towers]

769s also at GWR (sort of!).

Intercity 125s have become so iconic, they are part of our national identity, it'll be sad when none are in service.

In all honesty, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're all gone sooner rather than later. XC seem to begrudge the very existance of their sets, and GWR are expected to receive TfW's 158s once they're available, at which point I would fully expect the "Castles" to be retired, they aren't cheap to run and are a bit of a hotch potch solution to the problem.

I presume Scotrail's sets will be the last ones still going, possibly by quite some margin.

 

[JonathanH]

GWR are expected to receive TfW's 158s once they're available

It shouldn't be forgotten that TfW's 158s have a different set up for the driver because of the ETCS set up for the Cambrian lines so this 'expectation' is still speculation. It is not speculation to note that 16 3-car 165s are moving from Reading to Bristol if the 769s can be made to work.

 

[DannyMich2018]

The 323s are on their way to Northern soon.

Apparently the first 730s aren't due in passenger service till this November so will be a couple of years more they WMR be in service for. I'm glad cause they are good trains.

 

[Speed43125]

769s also at GWR (sort of!).

In all honesty, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're all gone sooner rather than later. XC seem to begrudge the very existance of their sets, and GWR are expected to receive TfW's 158s once they're available, at which point I would fully expect the "Castles" to be retired, they aren't cheap to run and are a bit of a hotch potch solution to the problem.

I presume Scotrail's sets will be the last ones still going, possibly by quite some margin.

Wouldn't surprise if they pick up some of the trailers at least that, as you say, are more than likely going off lease with cascades in the near future.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

The 1990s EMUs seem to have had a shorter life, the the 365s and 332s going/gone, though the 323s and most of the 465s should be around for a while

The 332s were purchased and operated by BAA's Heathrow Express, not BR.

 

[ac6000cw]

Class 57+Mark 3

Minor correction - Class 57 are post-BR (albeit rebuilds of BR cl. 47 locos).

 

[43066]

most of the 465s should be around for a while

It did seem likely they would be going fairly soon, if Southeastern ordered a new fleet in the next franchise. Presumably that’s well and truly kicked into the long grass now…

 

[Deepgreen]

By my reckoning, once all currently ordered new stock is in service and assuming the 313s and 455s go, the following ex-BR stock will be left in passenger service, by operator:

Chiltern:
165

CrossCountry:
HST

EMR:
Class 158

Eurostar:
Class 373*
(whilst technically never operated by BR, BR owned some of the sets)

GWR:
Class 150
Class 158
Class 165
Class 166
HST
Class 57+Mark 3

London Underground:
1992 stock*
(the 5 Waterloo & City line sets were operated by BR for a short period before LU took over operation of the line and the trains)

LNER:
Class 91+Mark 4

Northern:
Class 150
Class 155
Class 156
Class 158
Class 323
Class 769

ScotRail:
Class 153
Class 156
Class 158
Class 318
Class 320
HST

Southeastern:
Class 465
Class 466

SWR:
Class 158
Class 159

TFW:
Class 153
Mark 4


The 168s are all post-BR. The class number was also used by BR as a proposed Networker class, but was never built, and not related to the 168s that were built in the privatisation era.

You have omitted 769s from the GWR list, perhaps with good reason! Given their progress to date, I really wouldn't be very surprised if they never carry a passenger for GWR and are abandoned as a very expensive bad job.

 

[nw1]

It's interesting that after the withdrawal of slam-door stock in around 2004, little or no further stock was then withdrawn for many years - the fleet seemed very stable for about 10 years after that. If I remember right, there was a big introduction of new stock around 2002-04, but then a lull. In particular, the units just on the sliding-door side of the divide, such as 313s, have had an impressively long life.

In recent years though it seems to have gone to the opposite extreme, with relatively new units withdrawn from service (365s), or transferred off their original home region (360s on the GE for instance) after quite a short period of time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jan 2022 ==

It did seem likely they would be going fairly soon, if Southeastern ordered a new fleet in the next franchise. Presumably that’s well and truly kicked into the long grass now…

Though the 465s are probably not due for replacement just yet to be fair, they're only about 27 years old? When you consider the EPBs they replaced were introduced in 1951 and were still going strong, on the South Eastern at least, in 1993, the 465s should have a few years left in them yet. They're also about 10 years newer than the 455s, which of course are still just about going.

 

[trainmania100]

Is there any particular reason Wikipedia preceeds all classes with "British Rail"? Eg British rail class 777... Does this term simply relate to the fact they're operated in Britain?

If I wanted BREL products I'd stick with my local area. I've got 313s on my line, 319s reproduced as 769s not far away, occasional 158 and regular 166 on the gwr to Brighton, and 455s at Croydon etc

I think gwr probably have the most going by this list ? In terms of class variety not total units

British Rail Engineering Limited - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

150s, 158, 165, 166, 319 (769), 43

 

[bramling]

It did seem likely they would be going fairly soon, if Southeastern ordered a new fleet in the next franchise. Presumably that’s well and truly kicked into the long grass now…

It is sobering to think that another 10 years or so will see the 465s approaching 40 years old. I say sobering, as I still think of them as “new”.

Unlike a few years ago, the odds on them reaching that age are probably fairly safe now, 465/2 excepted perhaps.

I must admit I’m pretty fond of Networkers, especially the York ones which still give a feel of quality design - at least from the end user’s point of view. It’s unfortunate that the 465 fleet just hasn’t been well looked after, and the 365 fleet found itself in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Northern:
Class 150
Class 155
Class 156
Class 158
Class 323
Class 769

I think the 155s will go, considering they're nonstandard.