SWR outgoing Metro fleet withdrawals (complete)

[ChampsRacing]

When I dropped my units off early hours of Tuesday morning these where the units I saw around the depot that wasn’t inside any sheds. Top list is Wimbledon side of the depot bottom list is Earlsfield side Down the side of the Maintenance shed

 

[Ant1966]

I didn't note those two down, although there were a fair number of 456s around the depot, so could have been parked up behind other units.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2022 ==


Yes, clearly visible from the bridge. London end, on the fourth siding from the shed.

Thanks! Quick trip might be in order then.

 

[warwickshire]

Thanks! Quick trip might be in order then.

Same here just to be on the safe side off things.

 

[WesternBiker]

Are 456001 and 458504 visible at Wimbledon at all?

458504 is the one I'm after, so if you see it, let me know!

 

[warwickshire]

According to to the live rail website showing move cancelled due to a defective vehicle. Barrier vehicles maybe?.
So this move today Thursday the 06th January 2021.
Also cancelled.

 

[Devonish]

Wimbledon park to Long Marsden cancelled for second day running:

Realtime Trains | 574Q 1027 Wimbledon Park C.S.D. to Long Marston | 06/01/2022

Real-time train running information for 574Q 1027 departure from Wimbledon Park C.S.D. to Long Marston on 06/01/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Pep and co]

Yeah it is it’s 8507 & 8517 going for 4 car mainline conversion. Both are sat in depot by the fast lines in Wimbledon Park waiting to be collected.

Are 8507 and 8517 still at Wimbledon after the cancellations or have they finally escaped the depot?

 

[444045]

Believe 57312 and barrier wagons went back to Derby RTC without the 458's.

 

[Pep and co]

Believe 57312 and barrier wagons went back to Derby RTC without the 458's.

Thanks for the update. Presuming the 458s are at Wimbledon are they visible from passing trains?

 

[Class455]

Believe 57312 and barrier wagons went back to Derby RTC without the 458's.

Why did it need the barrier wagons in the first place? Could they not be dragged by the loco itself

 

[WarrenTManager]

Need it for coupler adaptor and brake continuity. The direct coupling method hasn’t been tested on 458s and approved as a method of work only 455 and 456. 57312 drop down coupler I think is tight lock anyway.

 

[43096]

57312 drop down coupler I think is tight lock anyway.

Correct. It's been towing 365s around a bit recently, I think.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Not sure where to post, but today there's a 450 working the Guildford stoppers instead of the usual 455.

Realtime Trains | 1303 London Waterloo to Guildford | 08/01/2022

Real-time train running information for 1303 departure from London Waterloo to Guildford on 08/01/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Bigfoot]

Not sure where to post, but today there's a 450 working the Guildford stoppers instead of the usual 455.

Realtime Trains | 1303 London Waterloo to Guildford | 08/01/2022

Real-time train running information for 1303 departure from London Waterloo to Guildford on 08/01/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Pretty sure this is normal in the December-May standard timetable.

 

[TEW]

Pretty sure this is normal in the December-May standard timetable.

Don't think there's any booked in the LTP diagrams, but in the STP diagrams this week that is an 8-450 diagram. Been pretty common the past few weeks for 450 diagrams to appear on Main Suburban stuff at weekends. There's a few tomorrow.

 

[MatthewRead]

I was told by 2 enthusiasts that the 450's gearboxes are not designed for stopping patterns and damaged the infrastructure hence SWR didn't want them on the Hounslow services etc.
I didn't realize this when I kept suggesting to keep the 442's to release 450's from the Portsmouth line to displace 458's and 707's from the Windsor services etc.

 

[adc82140]

How would a gearbox damage the infrastructure? A 450 on a Hounslow stopper is no different to a 450 on a Reading stopper.

 

[Goldfish62]

I was told by 2 enthusiasts that the 450's gearboxes are not designed for stopping patterns and damaged the infrastructure hence SWR didn't want them on the Hounslow services etc.
I didn't realize this when I kept suggesting to keep the 442's to release 450's from the Portsmouth line to displace 458's and 707's from the Windsor services etc.

So that's why they've been used on the Hounslow loop ever since they first entered service....

 

[43096]

I was told by 2 enthusiasts that the 450's gearboxes are not designed for stopping patterns and damaged the infrastructure hence SWR didn't want them on the Hounslow services etc.
I didn't realize this when I kept suggesting to keep the 442's to release 450's from the Portsmouth line to displace 458's and 707's from the Windsor services etc.

Do you believe anything anyone tells you?

Because the 450s have been used on the Windsor lines stopping services since new (that's only about 17 years). The biggest problem with the 450s on the Windsor lines is the slow door-cycle time, which hits time-keeping.

 

[deepeetw]

I was told by 2 enthusiasts that the 450's gearboxes are not designed for stopping patterns and damaged the infrastructure hence SWR didn't want them on the Hounslow services etc.
I didn't realize this when I kept suggesting to keep the 442's to release 450's from the Portsmouth line to displace 458's and 707's from the Windsor services etc.

Is this not some confusion between the 450s and the original 458s (before they were re-geared from 100 to 75 - something which will soon be reversed as they move back to the main line)?

Pretty sure there was some dialogue back then about unmodified 458s getting a bit hot with all the stop/start work.

Not sure how accurate it was though!

 

[swt_passenger]

Is this not some confusion between the 450s and the original 458s (before they were re-geared from 100 to 75 - something which will soon be reversed as they move back to the main line)?

Pretty sure there was some dialogue back then about unmodified 458s getting a bit hot with all the stop/start work.

Not sure how accurate it was though!

Definite yes to this being a 458 thing. It was explained in detail by that chap in Modern Railways who worked for Porterbrook at the time - Ian Walmsley.

By gearing the 458/5 for 75 mph, the motors ran faster and the air forced cooling was more effective when on stopping services.

I’d be gobsmacked if 450 gearing wasn’t OK for stopping services, and expect they’re exactly the same as 350s and 360s, both of which also work (or worked) on a variety of services.

 

[Bigfoot]

Is this not some confusion between the 450s and the original 458s (before they were re-geared from 100 to 75 - something which will soon be reversed as they move back to the main line)?

Pretty sure there was some dialogue back then about unmodified 458s getting a bit hot with all the stop/start work.

Not sure how accurate it was though!

If memory serves correctly he motors of the 458s are cooled by a direct drive fan, which means they have to move to cool which stop stop start work means they work hard and don't really get much air. Other stocks have fans that will cool them regardless of if the motor is running or not.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jan 2022 ==

Definite yes to this being a 458 thing. It was explained in detail by that chap in Modern Railways who worked for Porterbrook at the time - Ian Walmsley.

By gearing the 458/5 for 75 mph, the motors ran faster and the air forced cooling was more effective when on stopping services.

I’d be gobsmacked if 450 gearing wasn’t OK for stopping services, and expect they’re exactly the same as 350s and 360s, both of which also work (or worked) on a variety of services.

It's the door cycle time that makes it tough to keep to time on a 450 with a stop every 2 to 3 minutes.

 

[WarrenTManager]

How would a gearbox damage the infrastructure? A 450 on a Hounslow stopper is no different to a 450 on a Reading stopper.

Talking generally, a gearbox could damage the infrastructure by failing and locking up causing the wheelset to be dragged and damaging rail and point blades etc. not to mention the risk of derailment.

the 450 bit I suspect to be incorrect as other posters have mentioned.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Is this not some confusion between the 450s and the original 458s (before they were re-geared from 100 to 75 - something which will soon be reversed as they move back to the main line)?

I know they are due to be 100mph capable units after their forthcoming modification project, but prior to their conversion to /5s and their resultant 75mph maximum speed, they were only permitted to do 90mph in their original /0 guise - not 100mph. Of course though, the ones converted from Class 460s were previously 100mph units though!

 

[43096]

Of course though, the ones converted from Class 460s were previously 100mph units though!

The 460s were geared for 125mph before conversion, although limited to 100mph.

 

[Monty]

Considering the 450s don't have gearboxes.

'Gearing' on modern units is normally a software mod that affects acceleration rather than changing out physical gears. On Desiros (like most modern trains) the traction motors directly drive the wheels. The 450s have been used on Hounslow rounders and Weybridge bays since day one and it doesn't get much more stop/start as that. The issue has stemmed from the doors which close quite slowly and the are quite easy for passengers to hold open which has made keeping to time an ongoing struggle.

 

[swr444]

All 456s to be withdrawn by next Monday’s timetable change apparently.

 

[pompeyfan]

Considering the 450s don't have gearboxes.

'Gearing' on modern units is normally a software mod that affects acceleration rather than changing out physical gears. On Desiros (like most modern trains) the traction motors directly drive the wheels. The 450s have been used on Hounslow rounders and Weybridge bays since day one and it doesn't get much more stop/start as that. The issue has stemmed from the doors which close quite slowly and the are quite easy for passengers to hold open which has made keeping to time an ongoing struggle.

If the traction motor was the issue, they’d never do work such as the Netley road either

 

[XCTurbostar]

All 456s to be withdrawn by next Monday’s timetable change apparently.

If this is true, how is this going to help the current rolling stock situation? Surely this is just putting more stress on the 455 fleet?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

All 456s to be withdrawn by next Monday’s timetable change apparently.

I hate to be that forumer, but where are you getting such information? Internally at SWR or elsewhere?