Omicron variant and the measures implemented in response to it

[MikeWM]

I agree. There seems to be a belief if we don't impose restrictions life for most people will go on as normal. It won't. We are already seeing lots of train cancellations due to staff testing positive or isolating, many health centres/hospitals are short of staff, my local chippy is closed due to staff having tested positive. My Christmas lunch has been cancelled because the host has tested positive today. Most people agree the number of people testing positive will continue to increase so the number of these sorts of incidents will also increase.

Isolating due to testing positive *is itself* a restriction. How many of these people are actually ill?

Now I do agree that a lot of people being absent from work due to actually being ill - which is quite possible given how easy it appears Omicron spreads - would have some impact on the economy and society for a short while. But the effect is being compounded significantly - due to government restrictions.

 

[nedchester]

I cannot withstand the mental health impact of yet another lockdown. I can also not withstand this constant carrot dangling being pulled away and replaced with a stick. It’s absolutely destroying the confidence of so many people. Every time I hug my family, my friends & my boyfriend goodbye I am absolutely petrified it will be the last time I’m legally able to do so for another 6 months. How, just how, is the mental health impact this is having on so many flying so successfully under the radar???

My intolerance this time particularly relates to the lack of any clear exit from this. We always questioned the exit strategy of a lockdown and the answer “vaccines” was given. Well we’ve got those, we’ve had them. IF a lockdown is needed, then how on earth do we get away from this? What is the golden ticket this time?

Mental health awareness is supposedly at an all time high. Clearly not within the ranks our government and their advisors.

Agree with that 100% and I suspect millions of others who've been vaccinated feel the same.

 

[MikeWM]

I cannot withstand the mental health impact of yet another lockdown. I can also not withstand this constant carrot dangling being pulled away and replaced with a stick. It’s absolutely destroying the confidence of so many people. Every time I hug my family, my friends & my boyfriend goodbye I am absolutely petrified it will be the last time I’m legally able to do so for another 6 months. How, just how, is the mental health impact this is having on so many flying so successfully under the radar???

My intolerance this time particularly relates to the lack of any clear exit from this. We always questioned the exit strategy of a lockdown and the answer “vaccines” was given. Well we’ve got those, we’ve had them. IF a lockdown is needed, then how on earth do we get away from this? What is the golden ticket this time?

Mental health awareness is supposedly at an all time high. Clearly not within the ranks our government and their advisors.

I don't think at this point we can escape the conclusion that they know full well what they're doing, and are continuing to deliberately do so anyway. As I've said above and many times before. its an abusive relationship. As we don't have the option of 'leaving', our only option is to say 'no', firmly, again and again, until they get the message.

 

[nedchester]

Isolating due to testing positive *is itself* a restriction. How many of these people are actually ill?

Now I do agree that a lot of people being absent from work due to actually being ill - which is quite possible given how easy it appears Omicron spreads - would have some impact on the economy and society for a short while. But the effect is being compounded significantly - due to government restrictions.

Also true. When you hear of people getting Covid these days then because they are vaccinated they disappear off the scene for 10 days and then are back unhindered after that time.

 

[Eyersey468]

I cannot withstand the mental health impact of yet another lockdown. I can also not withstand this constant carrot dangling being pulled away and replaced with a stick. It’s absolutely destroying the confidence of so many people. Every time I hug my family, my friends & my boyfriend goodbye I am absolutely petrified it will be the last time I’m legally able to do so for another 6 months. How, just how, is the mental health impact this is having on so many flying so successfully under the radar???

My intolerance this time particularly relates to the lack of any clear exit from this. We always questioned the exit strategy of a lockdown and the answer “vaccines” was given. Well we’ve got those, we’ve had them. IF a lockdown is needed, then how on earth do we get away from this? What is the golden ticket this time?

Mental health awareness is supposedly at an all time high. Clearly not within the ranks our government and their advisors.

I agree 100%

 

[GrahamD83]

The chances of a full lockdown is very unlikely, parliament will need to be recalled and imposing yet another lockdown will just make Boris even more unpopular than he already is

Also any restrictons which require businesses to close will also require the furlough scheme to be brought back.

 

[duncanp]

Also any restrictons which require businesses to close will also require the furlough scheme to be brought back.

What is slightly encouraging is that Dominic Raab says that he doesn't anticipate the need to recall parliament this week.

Dominic Raab, the deputy prime minister and Justice Secretary, told broadcasters on Monday morning that he could not make “a hard and fast guarantee” that there would not be any further restrictions.

However, he indicated that he did not anticipate a recall of Parliament this week, which would be needed for a significant increase in restrictions beyond the current work from home, compulsory masks on transport and vaccine passports for big venues.

Yes, I know politicians can lie and things can change very quickly, but I don't think he would have said that if there wasn't something behind it.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a press conference later today.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Also any restrictons which require businesses to close will also require the furlough scheme to be brought back.

What is your source for your stated statement "will require the furlough scheme to be brought back."?

 

[Bantamzen]

What is your source for your stated statement "will require the furlough scheme to be brought back."?

Well people have to be paid, and if a business is closed they aren't making money so someone has to pay the workers. Or should they just eat cake?

 

[Spamcan81]

To those who are pointing to SA figures suggesting that Omicron is not as bad as some people are fearing - saw a report today that the official death toll may be underestimated by a factor of three though - what is their opinion on mask wearing in public being strictly enforced there?

 

[GrahamD83]

What is your source for your stated statement "will require the furlough scheme to be brought back."?

Well people have to be paid, and if a business is closed they aren't making money so someone has to pay the workers. Or should they just eat cake?

Yes its just an automatic assumption I have made.

 

[Smidster]

To those who are pointing to SA figures suggesting that Omicron is not as bad as some people are fearing - saw a report today that the official death toll may be underestimated by a factor of three though - what is their opinion on mask wearing in public being strictly enforced there?

My response to that would be I don't think there is any reason to believe that the undercount for Omicron would be worse than for previous waves - if anything it should be less given improved access to testing etc.

Of course furlough would need to be restored if Government closed businesses - unless you just want those businesses to go under immediately and those staff to be in big big trouble.

 

[yorksrob]

To those who are pointing to SA figures suggesting that Omicron is not as bad as some people are fearing - saw a report today that the official death toll may be underestimated by a factor of three though - what is their opinion on mask wearing in public being strictly enforced there?

However they also have something like thirty-something percent vaccine coverage, so this is something that should work in our favour.

Additionally, the previous Delta wave was presumably similarly under-reported, so the drop in mortality between the two waves will presumably not have been affected.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well people have to be paid, and if a business is closed they aren't making money so someone has to pay the workers. Or should they just eat cake?

That may well be an opinion held by some, but that is not the point that I sought to make.

The furlough scheme was something introduced by the Government and it came to an eventual end. From what the posting to which I responded to, the impression to me seemed to be a suggestion that such a reintroduction of the furlough scheme was something now already agreed that I had missed in news headlines. However, whilst you have the matter in mind, what exactly has been said in Government sources about such a scheme reintroduction?

 

[Watershed]

Remember that for option B or C to be implemented, Boris Johnson will have to recall parliament.

He promised that he would, but he also promised he had an "oven ready" Brexit deal...

All the signs at the moment seem to be that we will be in for 'harsher' guidance but probably not legal restrictions. Or if there are legal restrictions, they will not be as onerous as Steps 2 or 3 of the lockdown at the start of this year.

 

[hst43102]

I don't think at this point we can escape the conclusion that they know full well what they're doing, and are continuing to deliberately do so anyway. As I've said above and many times before. its an abusive relationship. As we don't have the option of 'leaving', our only option is to say 'no', firmly, again and again, until they get the message.

Problem there being that the vast majority of people seem to be quite happy to go along with the restrictions - even if they disagree with them or see the effect it's having on people. I personally don't see any good way out of this at all.

 

[Bantamzen]

That may well be an opinion held by some, but that is not the point that I sought to make.

The furlough scheme was something introduced by the Government and it came to an eventual end. From what the posting to which I responded to, the impression to me seemed to be a suggestion that such a reintroduction of the furlough scheme was something now already agreed that I had missed in news headlines. However, whilst you have the matter in mind, what exactly has been said in Government sources about such a scheme reintroduction?

In terms of a furlough scheme, the government have said nothing. The Chancellor has suggested that some additional aid be offered to those industries hit by the sudden downturn in footfall but nothing of the size that would facilitate a total closure of businesses.

 

[Eyersey468]

Problem there being that the vast majority of people seem to be quite happy to go along with the restrictions - even if they disagree with them or see the effect it's having on people. I personally don't see any good way out of this at all.

Nor do I

 

[John Luxton]

I don't think at this point we can escape the conclusion that they know full well what they're doing, and are continuing to deliberately do so anyway. As I've said above and many times before. its an abusive relationship. As we don't have the option of 'leaving', our only option is to say 'no', firmly, again and again, until they get the message.

100% agreement

We have to be firm and it looks as though the Netherlands has really had enough with widespread riots.

How much longer until the politicians accept that people are prepared to live with C19 to enable a return to normality and no longer want the politicians to protect them?

After the riots may well come civil war if the politicos do not bend.

Dutch COVID riots ‘pure violence’ by ‘idiots’: PM Rutte | Coronavirus pandemic News | Al Jazeera

 

[DustyBin]

I fully agree with your post, just except for the last half-sentence, which I think is the opposite of the truth. The pandemic seems, at macro level, to have gone roughly in line with the predictions made by the virologists and epidemiologists as soon as the characteristics of the virus were clear. Most people on this thread seem to have convinced themselves, through a combination of wishful thinking and selection of facts that they like, that some easier set of options is possible which will magically result in less damage to the economy and very few extra deaths. If there is any coherent analysis to support this I haven't seen it, so this amounts to a belief, not a rational conclusion.

There's certainly no magic bullet, the virus is real, it's here and therefore disruption is inevitable (as are deaths unfortunately). What's not clear is why, in the absence of any evidence that Omicron is a genuine threat to public health, and with a very high level of population immunity be it vaccine induced or naturally acquired, we're behaving the same as we were in March 2020. We're at a point now where everybody is going to be exposed to the virus, the same as we are to various other respiratory viruses (that we don't lose sleep over). I simply fail to see why we should continue to delay the inevitable at this point, especially when doing so comes at such great cost. We're as ready as we'll ever be to take the bull by the horns and actually live with the virus in my opinion.

I agree. There seems to be a belief if we don't impose restrictions life for most people will go on as normal. It won't. We are already seeing lots of train cancellations due to staff testing positive or isolating, many health centres/hospitals are short of staff, my local chippy is closed due to staff having tested positive. My Christmas lunch has been cancelled because the host has tested positive today. Most people agree the number of people testing positive will continue to increase so the number of these sorts of incidents will also increase.
I am not pro-lockdown but we cannot just pretend things will be normal if we don't.

You're not wrong it what you're saying, however as per my post upthread these are man made problems. At some point we need to accept the fact that forcing healthy people to isolate simply isn't sustainable and does more harm than good. Again this is crucial to learning to live with the virus. The question is, if not now when?

 

[MikeWM]

Problem there being that the vast majority of people seem to be quite happy to go along with the restrictions - even if they disagree with them or see the effect it's having on people. I personally don't see any good way out of this at all.

People are mostly going along with masks, unfortunately, but I'm not sure they're going along with too much else (I suppose the weekend reports of limited footfall and empty pubs may show that to be wrong, but I've not too seen much evidence of that myself).

What we really need is businesses pushing back, but so far the number that have done so have been lamentably small, allowing those that have tried to resist to be targeted and punished (eg. the independent cinema in Swansea that refused to check government permission papers, or 'vaccine passports' if you prefer).

I've no real idea in what direction we do break out of this - it may be good, it may be very bad - but I don't see us carrying on like this for much longer.

 

[quantinghome]

After the riots may well come civil war if the politicos do not bend.

The absolute state of this thread.

 

[adc82140]

100% agreement


After the riots may well come civil war if the politicos do not bend.

The only civil war we're likely to see is the one brewing within the Conservative Party.

 

[DustyBin]

To those who are pointing to SA figures suggesting that Omicron is not as bad as some people are fearing - saw a report today that the official death toll may be underestimated by a factor of three though - what is their opinion on mask wearing in public being strictly enforced there?

On the basis that Omicron is transmitting at record rates, I'm inclined to think that their strict mask enforcement isn't achieving a great deal!

 

[brad465]

The only civil war we're likely to see is the one brewing within the Conservative Party.

I'm almost certain more restrictions would be in place by now if the Tory party were not as split on restrictions than they now are.

 

[John Luxton]

The only civil war we're likely to see is the one brewing within the Conservative Party.

Some politicians will seek to exploit differences for their advantage even within the same party.

Reform has already realised that their no lockdowns pledge is popular, all it takes is for a few Tories to take on the matter.

A civil war doesn't actually have to be a shooting one!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2021 ==

The absolute state of this thread.

Not sure what you mean my this?

Do you not think that some people will become more active in trying to take back what the politicians will not give.

I am not advocating riots - but I can see it coming if they do not bend.

Having seen the aftermath of the Toxteth riots back in the early 80s it isn't something I want to see again - but I could fully understand if it did happen.

 

[duncanp]

I'm almost certain more restrictions would be in place by now if the Tory party were not as split on restrictions than they now are.

And Labour have said they will back more restrictions "..in the national interest.." and "..to protect public health..."

That is going to win them a lot of votes (NOT)

 

[Mag_seven]

And Labour have said they will back more restrictions "..in the national interest.." and "..to protect public health..."

There must be some Labour MPs opposed to this approach surely?

 

[hst43102]

On the basis that Omicron is transmitting at record rates, I'm inclined to think that their strict mask enforcement isn't achieving a great deal!

All the more reason to remove the mandates and let people make their own decisions on "protecting" themselves.

 

[brad465]

There must be some Labour MPs opposed to this approach surely?

Corbyn (technically not a Labour MP) and about 8 Labour MPs opposed vaccine passports. I heard one Labour MP wanted the party to vote against the measures to bring the Government down, but unfortunately too many supporters believe that shouldn't happen on matters of public health.