How are you going to deal with Climate Change?

[reddragon]

Now lets get back on topic eh?

If you do want to buy an EV next and not a Nokia brick, a few simple guides: -

1 - You needs somewhere to charge at home or work
2 - The range of the vehicle, that's real range needs to exceed your regular trips and be doable for you on long trips. For real range see this link

www.ev-database.uk

3 - Cost. Forget the list price. Whilst the list price is higher, PCP rates are less so as second hand EVs are gold dust, so less depreciation is built in. If you can charge at home at night, it's 5p/unit on an EV tariff or 1.25p per mile. Work out your competitive fuel costs. Servicing & maintenance is minimal. Mine gets an annual look over, plug in to a laptop, hepa filter that's it. Warranties are long. My next one is 7y/100k miles. Insurance is about the same.

If you go second hand, play safe as older models have limited range and remember, under you feet the battery is worth a mint.


Still scared? well lease one from under £200 per month

Electric Car Lease | Electric Car Leasing | DriveElectric

Find the best electric car lease options available. Get help from leading electric car leasing experts at DriveElectric and start your EV journey today.

www.drive-electric.co.uk

4 - get a wall box put in with a grant or free with some manufacturers.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Sep 2021 ==

I'll try not to derail this into a covid thread, however I've limited the number of lateral flow tests I've done - only done 3 since they started. All the plastic that comes with it and goes to landfill mustn't be great considering the numbers of tests the country seems to do.

There's a huge amount of waste from covid, the streets are littered with old masks. Sad really!

 

[scotrail158713]

There's a huge amount of waste from covid, the streets are littered with old masks. Sad really!

That's true about the masks as well. There's a phenomenal number of them everywhere.

 

[reddragon]

In the UK there were 8380 (7800 active) Petrol Station at the end of 2020 compared with 13107 in 2000 and around 35000 in 1970.

95% of EV charging is done at home or work, but that will change as those who cannot have to use public chargers.

These are the public charging figures. There are good and bad areas; free and costly chargers; some networks are not reliable.



For most people and most journeys, it's easy.

If you do regular trips you know with known charging, you can leave at 100% charge and arrive with 5% charge using 95% of your range.
If you are on a long run, you aim to arrive at a rapid at 20% charge and depart at 80% charge, giving you 60% of the range between rapids, which is 2 hours of driving for many new EVs. You do this to protect the battery foremost but also to give you a plan B on an unknown route as you would on a Petrol car. The key other reason is charging speed. 20-80% charges quickly, whereas over 80% charging slows down a lot as you approach 95%.

If you want to push on with longer segments, you drive slower and turn down or off the heating, but I'd only suggest that when you really need to in areas with charger gaps.

A 400m trip should be 6 hours of driving and 2 hours charging, that's 2-3 stops. There are cars, Tesla, Porsche & Audi who have cars that can charge much quicker so will do the charging in under 1 hour and this speed is becoming more common.

 

[najaB]

I'll try not to derail this into a covid thread, however I've limited the number of lateral flow tests I've done - only done 3 since they started. All the plastic that comes with it and goes to landfill mustn't be great considering the numbers of tests the country seems to do.

Covid will pass. In terms of climate change the increase in emissions/pollution due to testing and masks is more than offset by the reduction in other activities - e.g. flights are still only around 60% of what they would have been in a normal year.

 

[158747]

As an electric plane will have a similar capital cost to a jet plane, will have a 90% reduction in running costs and the fact that already we have airliners capable of flying 20,000 miles, then making an electric airliner capable of most short and medium haul flights is already within our technological capability.

What are these airliners that are capable of flying 20000 miles?

 

[najaB]

What are these airliners that are capable of flying 20000 miles?

Did you not know that BA are trialling mid-air refuelling?

(In case it wasn't clear, that was a joke!)

 

[reddragon]

What are these airliners that are capable of flying 20000 miles?

At the moment ones with 1000 miles are being built, but with current tech its 10000/4 = 2500 miles but by the time they fly, nearer 5,000 miles will be viable. The initial Easyjet fleet is targeting quite short routes and playing very safe.

A combination of new tech and the aviation industry = play very safe

 

[Ediswan]

What are these airliners that are capable of flying 20000 miles?

Maybe they meant 20,000 km. That has been done a few times.

 

[reddragon]

Maybe they meant 20,000 km. That has been done a few times.

The only plane EVER to fly around the world without refuelling was electric. Say no more lol

Just checked, longest flight range is 10k not 20k in miles, sorry

 

[Ted633]

The only plane EVER to fly around the world without refuelling was electric. Say no more lol

Just checked, longest flight range is 10k not 20k in miles, sorry

Rutan Voyager in 1986?

 

[reddragon]

Rutan Voyager in 1986?

That was a fuelled aircraft with 2 pilots, I forgot about that one.

This is the solar powered one without fuel

Inside the First Solar-Powered Flight Around the World

A new documentary highlights the challenges overcome by the experimental aircraft, Solar Impulse

www.smithsonianmag.com

Looks like 2 have made it. Any more?

The passenger records are 12455 miles on a 777 delivery run and 12106 miles on a chartered 787 What would you do in all that time aloft?

Longest flights - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[nlogax]

The passenger records are 12455 miles on a 777 delivery run and 12106 miles on a chartered 787 What would you do in all that time aloft?

Try to sleep but fail, watch a couple of bad movies, sink a couple of whiskies and stare out of the window while the daylight lasts. Same as ever.

 

[reddragon]

Try to sleep but fail, watch a couple of bad movies, sink a couple of whiskies and stare out of the window while the daylight lasts. Same as ever.

Get back and die of deep vein thrombosis happy in the thought you won't suffer the long tern consequences of all this flying!!

I have only once done a long flight for work 20 years ago. Absolutely hated it, never again. I've not flown for 2 years and even then no more than one short return flight per year.

Why is it I can spend all day on a train and drive my EV for 15 hours and be chilled, but hate the flying experience so much? I admit, I did enjoy the landing & take off at Funchal though.

 

[RuralRambler]

I'll try not to derail this into a covid thread, however I've limited the number of lateral flow tests I've done - only done 3 since they started. All the plastic that comes with it and goes to landfill mustn't be great considering the numbers of tests the country seems to do.

It's not just covid tests though. There's a huge amount of packaging/plastics etc throughout the NHS. All those vacuum blood test containers, not to mention the plastic bags that they are put into for transit (always far larger than needed). Same with all the pre-packaged single-use utensils such as spatulas, needles, syringes, etc. Apparently even metal scissors are single use only, come in pre-packaging, and are disposed of after a single use. Personally, as a diabetic, I'm using a plastic test strip and a plastic/metal needle at least daily, which just go into the bin. My OH who is on chemo drugs using a daily syringe of anti-blood clot medication - the syringe is single use metal/plastic, pre wrapped in plastic. Long gone are the days when each surgery/hospital used metal utensils and sterilised them between patients. It may be cheaper to use plastic/disposable, but not good for the planet.

 

[reddragon]

The disinformation campaign by big oil is finally being unravelled removing the biggest blocker to dealing with climate change.

Exxon and BP called to testify on climate after ‘troubling’ new documents

Congressman calls documents related to the fossil fuel industry’s efforts to discredit climate science ‘very concerning’

www.theguardian.com

And for those who hate lunatics jumping in front of traffic con the M25?

The Government have lost several consecutive high court actions on their cause and have blocked them from demonstrating in London. I do not agree with their actions but fully agree with their cause as should anyone who owns or lives in a house as it is you who are paying for Government inaction through your energy bills and the poor builders and traders through endless failed Government sham schemes costing them a fortune in wasted investment and time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2021 ==

It's not just covid tests though. There's a huge amount of packaging/plastics etc throughout the NHS. All those vacuum blood test containers, not to mention the plastic bags that they are put into for transit (always far larger than needed). Same with all the pre-packaged single-use utensils such as spatulas, needles, syringes, etc. Apparently even metal scissors are single use only, come in pre-packaging, and are disposed of after a single use. Personally, as a diabetic, I'm using a plastic test strip and a plastic/metal needle at least daily, which just go into the bin. My OH who is on chemo drugs using a daily syringe of anti-blood clot medication - the syringe is single use metal/plastic, pre wrapped in plastic. Long gone are the days when each surgery/hospital used metal utensils and sterilised them between patients. It may be cheaper to use plastic/disposable, but not good for the planet.

I did a major project in East London and we used unrecyclable plastics instead of Bitumen in the tarmac.

It saved huge quantities of CO2 emissions, is a better product that creates a value for plastic waste.

Now only if everyone did this!

 

[scotrail158713]

It's not just covid tests though. There's a huge amount of packaging/plastics etc throughout the NHS. All those vacuum blood test containers, not to mention the plastic bags that they are put into for transit (always far larger than needed). Same with all the pre-packaged single-use utensils such as spatulas, needles, syringes, etc. Apparently even metal scissors are single use only, come in pre-packaging, and are disposed of after a single use. Personally, as a diabetic, I'm using a plastic test strip and a plastic/metal needle at least daily, which just go into the bin. My OH who is on chemo drugs using a daily syringe of anti-blood clot medication - the syringe is single use metal/plastic, pre wrapped in plastic. Long gone are the days when each surgery/hospital used metal utensils and sterilised them between patients. It may be cheaper to use plastic/disposable, but not good for the planet.

That's very true about the NHS in general. I donated blood at the donor centre in Edinburgh recently, and the amount of single-use plastics involved in that is huge. It's a while since I last used any other NHS services however I can imagine it is similar elsewhere as well.

 

[al78]

Covid will pass. In terms of climate change the increase in emissions/pollution due to testing and masks is more than offset by the reduction in other activities - e.g. flights are still only around 60% of what they would have been in a normal year.

COVID has made negligable difference to emissions and climate change.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2021 ==

Get back and die of deep vein thrombosis happy in the thought you won't suffer the long tern consequences of all this flying!!

I have only once done a long flight for work 20 years ago. Absolutely hated it, never again. I've not flown for 2 years and even then no more than one short return flight per year.

Why is it I can spend all day on a train and drive my EV for 15 hours and be chilled, but hate the flying experience so much? I admit, I did enjoy the landing & take off at Funchal though.

On a train you can get up and stretch your legs. When driving, you are in control and can choose to stop for a break and refreshments. In a plane you are in your seat almost all the time and it is far more difficult to stand up and walk about, especially if you are not in an aisle seat.

I wouldn't drive for 15 hours straight. I am planning to go to Braemar next year which will take a good 12 hours if I did it in one go, but I will break the journey overnight somewhere.

 

[najaB]

COVID has made negligable difference to emissions and climate change.

Err...

Carbon dioxide emissions have fallen dramatically since lockdowns were imposed around the world due to the coronavirus crisis, research has shown.

Daily emissions of the greenhouse gas plunged 17% by early April compared with 2019 levels, according to the first definitive study of global carbon output this year.

The findings show the world has experienced the sharpest drop in carbon output since records began, with large sections of the global economy brought to a near standstill. When the lockdown was at its most stringent, in some countries emissions fell by just over a quarter (26%) on average. In the UK, the decline was about 31%, while in Australia emissions fell 28.3% for a period during April.

Lockdowns trigger dramatic fall in global carbon emissions

Responses to coronavirus crisis cause sharpest drop in carbon output since records began

www.theguardian.com

The global COVID-19 lockdowns caused fossil CO2 emissions to decline by an estimated 2.4 billion tonnes in 2020 - a record drop according to new estimates from researchers at the University of East Anglia (UEA), University of Exeter and the Global Carbon Project, an initiative chaired by Stanford University scientist Rob Jackson.

The estimates, to be published Dec. 11 in the journal Earth System Science Data, show a considerably larger decline compared to even the steepest emission decreases seen over much of the past century: 0.5 billion tonnes of CO2 (GtCO2) in 1981 and 2009; 0.7 GtCO2 in 1992; and 0.9 GtCO2 in 1945 at the end of World War II. Carbon emissions from the burning of fossil fuels such as oil and gas are predicted to be approximately 34 GtCO2, 7 percent lower than in 2019.

https://earth.stanford.edu/news/covid-lockdown-causes-record-drop-carbon-emissions-2020#gs.bl4xry

 

[reddragon]

On a train you can get up and stretch your legs. When driving, you are in control and can choose to stop for a break and refreshments. In a plane you are in your seat almost all the time and it is far more difficult to stand up and walk about, especially if you are not in an aisle seat.

I wouldn't drive for 15 hours straight. I am planning to go to Braemar next year which will take a good 12 hours if I did it in one go, but I will break the journey overnight somewhere.

One key advantage of an EV is that you have to stop for a charge every 2-3 hours for up to an hour. The other is ease of driving and the inbuilt driving aids making driving so much easier.

 

[al78]

Err...

Lockdowns trigger dramatic fall in global carbon emissions

Responses to coronavirus crisis cause sharpest drop in carbon output since records began

www.theguardian.com

https://earth.stanford.edu/news/covid-lockdown-causes-record-drop-carbon-emissions-2020#gs.bl4xry

Ok the emissions have gone down (sorry I was wrong there) but it is a temporary blip which makes no difference to climate change and its effects in the long term. It is like Mt Pinatubo when it blew caused a small global cooling for a couple of years before the ash dissipated and global temperature recovered. Now we are coming out of the pandemic CO2 levels will gradually regress back to what they were, I don't believe that people in wealthy countries will suddenly stop going on abroad holidays multiple times a year, or the reduction in commuting will be permanent.

Covid-19 paused climate emissions – but they're rising again

The world's sudden launch into lockdown a year ago had an interesting effect on carbon emissions – now they're returning back to normal far quicker than society is.

www.bbc.com

Could Covid lockdown have helped save the planet?

Slowdown of human activity was too short to reverse years of destruction, but we saw a glimpse of post-fossil fuel world

www.theguardian.com

How will Covid-19 ultimately impact climate change?

The Covid-19 pandemic is likely to have little direct effect on long-term greenhouse gas emissions, but could have a significant indirect effect on the investment nations are willing to commit.

news.mit.edu

“Back to normal” is a path to climate catastrophe

The data is in: The pandemic did nothing to slow climate change.

www.vox.com

 

[najaB]

Ok the emissions have gone down (sorry I was wrong there) but it is a temporary blip which makes no difference to climate change and its effects in the long term.

That I agree with. But the point I was making was that the temporary increase in plastics use is balanced by a temporary reduction in emissions. It may not even have been a net increase in plastics use.

 

[Ostrich]

Our contribution to reducing energy costs (and thus combating climate change in a small way) was to have a solar thermal system installed around 4 years ago.
It will never repay the capital cost, and the ongoing maintenance of the system slightly exceeds the estimated cost savings on our gas bill.

When friends ask about it, I describe it as Frankenstein Science and tell them that occasionally, we even manage to get some hot water out of it ......

 

[reddragon]

Our contribution to reducing energy costs (and thus combating climate change in a small way) was to have a solar thermal system installed around 4 years ago.
It will never repay the capital cost, and the ongoing maintenance of the system slightly exceeds the estimated cost savings on our gas bill.

When friends ask about it, I describe it as Frankenstein Science and tell them that occasionally, we even manage to get some hot water out of it ......

I installed Solar Thermal way back in 2011 and it has not only paid for itself but brought me substantial savings.

I have an oversized reversed storage tank which it fully heats up on average 100 days per year. It even works on a sunny winters day.

The trick is not to heat your tank on a sunny morning. In the summer I do not use the heating system at all, only turning it on in the evening to heat up the tank if needed. The rest of the year I set all of my timers so that the central heating drains the heat in the morning to warm up the house and allow the sun to heat the water in the day before using heating in the evening to top it up.

You simply need to change how you use it, that's all.

#################

Wabtec is having a go

‘Dramatically more powerful’: world’s first battery-electric freight train unveiled​

‘Dramatically more powerful’: world’s first battery-electric freight train unveiled

Wabtec shows off locomotive amid fresh attempt by some lawmakers to slash carbon emissions from rail transport

www.theguardian.com

 

[chorleyjeff]

A burning question that I wanted to raise is how people are going to be dealing with climate change, which is a very real risk as seen by the horrendous heatwave across America and Canada.

How are you going to adapt your lifestyle and way of life to suit the changing climate, it's inevitable that storms are going to get worse and that it'll get hotter etc.

How are you going to handle it?

If I had the money buy upland moors ready for the weather to make farming up there an economic reality.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Nov 2021 ==

I intend to do absolutely nothing: if it’s as bad as the climate zealots make out then we’re screwed no matter what we do; if it isn’t then it doesn’t matter.

Indeed yes. Climate changes even without humans. eg at one time animals could walk from here to continental Europe by way of Doggerland and on the other hand there are raised beaches in the Scottish Western Isles several metre above current sea levels and 600 metre hills in Yorkshire comprise coral converted to limestone. My guess is that Earth can't be preserved as it is now in the medium term.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Nov 2021 ==

Not true. The gap between the squeezed middle classes and the working classes is the smallest it has ever been. The pay & wealth of middle classes in many professions is now little different to a skilled working class person.

It is amazing how a bit of middle class inherited wealth can make an enormous difference to living standards. Those lucky folk not paying mortgages and sending children to public schools to make the right connections are doing very nicely and their offspring will also do nicely thank you.

 

[najaB]

Indeed yes. Climate changes even without humans. eg at one time animals could walk from here to continental Europe by way of Doggerland and on the other hand there are raised beaches in the Scottish Western Isles several metre above current sea levels and 600 metre hills in Yorkshire comprise coral converted to limestone. My guess is that Earth can't be preserved as it is now in the medium term.

Keep in mind that "medium term" on the scale of human lifespan and on the scale of the age of the planet are very, very different things. What we need to do is stop changing the climate faster than we (and the species that we share a snapshot in time with) can adapt to.

 

[The Ham]

Keep in mind that "medium term" on the scale of human lifespan and on the scale of the age of the planet are very, very different things. What we need to do is stop changing the climate faster than we (and the species that we share a snapshot in time with) can adapt to.

Indeed, as an example there's birds which because the butterflies it eats have shifted when they start their breeding season because of temperature changes the chicks are dying and the species is rapidly dying out.

Likewise there are birds from The Med which in the 50's almost never came to our shores, yet now have hundreds of beading pairs.

Even if humans aren't the main cause of greenhouse gases, the fact that we might be causing the total amount of such gases are too high for the planet to cope with then we should deal with that which we have control over.

For example if nature produces 75 units and we create 40, but the earth can only deal with 100. Then we should look to cut ours to 25 (or less would be better, especially given we can't be sure that we know what it can cope with).

We are already at 1.1 degrees of warming and the number of climate related issues in recent years appears to be worse than it was (say) in the 90's.

Also if it turns out that I'm wrong then I'm happy to admit my mistake and there'll be little in the way of adverse effects but plenty of benefits (like less air pollution), if we don't act and it turns out that we needed to act then we're in a whole world of trouble.

 

[DerekC]

One little thing I am trying is to set the ACC on my 2015 Golf diesel (can't justify changing it for an EV yet) to 65mph on motorways. It reduces the fuel consumption by somewhere between 5 and 10% (compared with 70) and makes no detectable difference to journey times, which on my usual routes are very variable due to in traffic delays on the non-motorway bits. I thought it would be a real pain in terms of more lane to lane manoeuvring but is isn't. It's much more relaxing because you don't have to keep judging gaps between trucks in the slow lane and moving over for the 75 mph tailgaters nearly so often. Wait until they are past, a quick boost to 70mph to pass a truck at 60 and you are through!

It's hard to say whether many others are doing the same thing because I don't catch up with them. But the number of big (mostly black) 4x4s at 80mph doesn't seem to have changed much.

 

[Gostav]

What do you think like that?

Sea Shepherd's "Winds of Wrath" Campaign to Protect Brittany's Coast

Sea Shepherd launches the "Winds of Wrath" campaign to oppose a wind farm in France's Bay of Saint-Brieuc.

www.seashepherdglobal.org

"The European Commission's objective, which could result in the equivalent of 34,000 offshore wind turbines in 2050, including 7100 for France, seems incompatible with the survival of many seabird species."

I think Greenpeace is well know on anti-nuclear stance.

In my opinion,the position of some "environmentalists" is very suspicious, such as anti-HS2 and anti-TAV (Turin–Lyon high-speed railway) movments.

 

[najaB]

In my opinion,the position of some "environmentalists" is very suspicious, such as anti-HS2 and anti-TAV (Turin–Lyon high-speed railway) movments.

Not really. They have a point. Large infrastructure projects do have a negative impact on the local environments that they are constructed in. But the key word there is 'local'. In some cases that negative local impact outweighs the regional/national/global positive and so the project should be stopped. In many more cases the wider benefit does give a net positive even considering the damage done locally.

There's nothing crazy, disingenuous or hypocritical about people who call out those local impacts. In fact, we need people to do that so that we don't end up in a situation where big investors can do whatever they want, everyone else be damned.

 

[chorleyjeff]

Just like other things done by the government lately, this very much looks like a case of "lets cause as much damage as we can before we're ousted" from the Tories. Boris won't last much longer, so hopefully this'll be meaningless in the long run as the next government will be more competent than the current government (would be difficult to be less competent!) and likely reverse it.


Utter nonsense. Do you seriously think that schemes that'll ultimately contribute to preventing the world being damaged to such an extent that the youth of today's grandchildren can't live on the planet is achieveing "nothing but harm"? What'll really cause nothing but harm in the long run is doing nothing about decarbonisation. Electrification isn't to "pacify environment activists", it's to contribute to the process of stopping the world from burning, literally.

Overegging it I think. I'm pretty certain my part of Lancashire will not burn anytime soon ( in geological terms ) as children are being taught and frightened. Climate change continues as it always has done but no doubt accelerated by the USA, Chinese and Indian use of coal and oil.