LNER diversion via Carlisle

[CaptainHaddock]

I'm on the 0912 Doncaster to Aberdeen now and the scrolling display in my carriage shows Carlisle as a calling point. Yet the information screen at Doncaster station made no mention of it!

 

[800001]

I'm on the 0912 Doncaster to Aberdeen now and the scrolling display in my carriage shows Carlisle as a calling point. Yet the information screen at Doncaster station made no mention of it!

The info screens should be turned off. As mentioned several posts ago, lner have a software issue where the headcodes won't load properly into the computer, drivers are inputting emergency codes to allow doors to release, this has to include Carlisle, but for the reason of changing from diesel to electric and vice versa.

All Anglo Scots services should be running with no reservation lights on display and no internal or external information screens turned on.

 

[XAM2175]

All Anglo Scots services should be running with ... no internal or external information screens turned on.

How's that work for PRM?

 

[trebor79]

I'm on the 0912 Doncaster to Aberdeen now and the scrolling display in my carriage shows Carlisle as a calling point. Yet the information screen at Doncaster station made no mention of it!

That's what was happening on my train last Sunday.

 

[neilmc]

If we had proper trains with doors which could be opened by passengers all this palaver would be completely redundant.

 

[Class800]

Makes me think of a question that I hope is on-topic here: if the passenger information system announces a station and the train doesn't stop at it, does the company have the same responsibilities as in a 'fail to stop', even if the station wasn't meant to be a stop for the train. As well as these Carlisle issues, I remember last year on SWR when the announcement said 'the next station is Feniton' and then the train went straight through it at speed. It may have been that the guard set the wrong file on the information system.

 

[mmh]

All Anglo Scots services should be running with no reservation lights on display and no internal or external information screens turned on.

How passenger friendly!

 

[DanNCL]

The info screens should be turned off. As mentioned several posts ago, lner have a software issue where the headcodes won't load properly into the computer, drivers are inputting emergency codes to allow doors to release, this has to include Carlisle, but for the reason of changing from diesel to electric and vice versa.

All Anglo Scots services should be running with no reservation lights on display and no internal or external information screens turned on.

Can you confirm if this is official LNER policy please? If it is then they're in direct breach of PRM-TSI legislation, and the ORR have the legal facility to prosecute over it.

How's that work for PRM?

It doesn't work for PRM, nor do the occasions when 80xs are running round with both accessible toilets locked out of use, which despite what LNER like to claim has been happening.

 

[800001]

Can you confirm if this is official LNER policy please? If it is then they're in direct breach of PRM-TSI legislation, and the ORR have the legal facility to prosecute over it.


It doesn't work for PRM, nor do the occasions when 80xs are running round with both accessible toilets locked out of use, which despite what LNER like to claim has been happening.

Apologies, internal and external displays should be working, but seat reservations will not display on any Anglo Scots services during diverts.
All Scottish services will show either Aberdeen as a destination or Kings Cros depending on direction of travel. Train manager needs to remove calling points to match service, but Aberdeen, Carlisle and London will always display.

Train managers should make manual announcements to advise customers of correct calling points.

 

[DanNCL]

Apologies, internal and external displays should be working, but seat reservations will not display on any Anglo Scots services during diverts.
All Scottish services will show either Aberdeen as a destination or Kings Cros depending on direction of travel. Train manager needs to remove calling points to match service, but Aberdeen, Carlisle and London will always display.

Train managers should make manual announcements to advise customers of correct calling points.

That's a lot better than what was previously thought then, but still not acceptable for PRM on northbound services that aren't running to Aberdeen, and southbound services which aren't running to Kings Cross (there are one or two), as the screens are informing people of calling points the train isn't going to - all good and well the guards making manual announcements to inform of the correct calling pattern but that isn't any use for those who are deaf.

The Tyne Valley diversions often didn't go swimmingly with the HSTs and Mark 4 drags (I was caught up in an incident in 2018 which led to a Mark 4 set being stranded in Carlisle after it was dragged there from Newcastle despite the wires on the WCML being down at Lockerbie) but at least people were always properly informed of what exactly was going on, that doesn't appear to be happening on many of the 800 worked diversions.

 

[skyhigh]

It doesn't work for PRM, nor do the occasions when 80xs are running round with both accessible toilets locked out of use

As far as I'm aware trains are permitted to run with no available PRM toilets due to faults. Where does it state that's not permitted?

 

[DanNCL]

As far as I'm aware trains are permitted to run with no available PRM toilets due to faults. Where does it state that's not permitted?

Only permitted to do so if advertised to passengers that this is the case, and suitable alternative provisions are provided for those who may require them. This often doesn't happen on LNER, indeed I strongly suspect the first anyone not on the train hears of it will be when the unit gets back to the depot at the end of the day in many cases.

 

[800001]

Only permitted to do so if advertised to passengers that this is the case, and suitable alternative provisions are provided for those who may require them. This often doesn't happen on LNER, indeed I strongly suspect the first anyone not on the train hears of it will be when the unit gets back to the depot at the end of the day in many cases.

Lner know about every accessible toilet not in use.

On a morning, an email is issued to all front like staff and station listing, units and services with toilets locked out of use.

These are also shared with the public over twitter advising people as we.

During day, any toilets which develop a fault, are also highlighted to Hitachi via remote monitoring, and again as above, these are issued out as messages to all front line staff.

So, you 'strongly suspesct' incorrectly.

 

[DanNCL]

Lner know about every accessible toilet not in use.

On a morning, an email is issued to all front like staff and station listing, units and services with toilets locked out of use.

These are also shared with the public over twitter advising people as we.

During day, any toilets which develop a fault, are also highlighted to Hitachi via remote monitoring, and again as above, these are issued out as messages to all front line staff.

So, you 'strongly suspesct' incorrectly.

So why aren't the passengers waiting to board the train always informed of this then? The only legitimate reason I could think of for it was control not knowing about them, but you've said that's not the case. I'm well aware of the protocol regarding sharing this info on twitter, but there have been many occasions why myself and other people I know have encountered accessible toilets locked out of service where the public had not been informed.

 

[ld0595]

If we had proper trains with doors which could be opened by passengers all this palaver would be completely redundant.

What do you mean? Passengers are able to open the doors, can't they? (Albeit only if the guard unlocks them)

 

[Carlisle]

So why aren't the passengers waiting to board the train always informed of this then?

Perhaps because an ‘out of use’toilet can be a fickle problem , sometimes quickly & easily rectified by a member of staff or an empty water tank or full waste tank that’ll close it for at least the entire journey.

 

[ainsworth74]

What do you mean? Passengers are able to open the doors, can't they? (Albeit only if the guard unlocks them)

I presumed they were harking back to days of yore before we started having central door locks.

 

[GordonT]

Why does TOC senior management not order its relevant department to ensure that correct information is displayed on the passenger information screens irrespective of whether journeys are on the normal route or on a planned diversion? Chris Green in his day would have gone off his rocker if a "known" problem of this sort persisted unresolved.

 

[SeanG]

I'm on the second northbound diversion today, just whizzing along the Tyne Valley now.
The PIS states that we will be calling at Carlisle, Edinburgh and Aberdeen.
The catering crew seem to believe that on all diverts passengers can leave/board at Carlisle

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Oct 2021 ==

Reservations are off, but it's very lightly loaded (1-2 per carriage) so not the end of the world

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Oct 2021 ==

Apparently this is down to it being booked as 2x 5 car and it is not 1x 9 car

 

[800001]

I'm on the second northbound diversion today, just whizzing along the Tyne Valley now.
The PIS states that we will be calling at Carlisle, Edinburgh and Aberdeen.
The catering crew seem to believe that on all diverts passengers can leave/board at Carlisle

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Oct 2021 ==

Reservations are off, but it's very lightly loaded (1-2 per carriage) so not the end of the world

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Oct 2021 ==

Apparently this is down to it being booked as 2x 5 car and it is not 1x 9 car

Reservations will not be turned on, on any service heading to Edinburgh. If they had been working, then yes, they would of been turned off due to change on formation.
All will say they are heading to Aberdeen as well.

 

[Cantab26]

Apologies, internal and external displays should be working, but seat reservations will not display on any Anglo Scots services during diverts.
All Scottish services will show either Aberdeen as a destination or Kings Cros depending on direction of travel. Train manager needs to remove calling points to match service, but Aberdeen, Carlisle and London will always display.

Train managers should make manual announcements to advise customers of correct calling points.

What an utter nonsense!

It would almost be better to return to the days of paper window labels and manual announcements rather than persist with this mess.

 

[DanNCL]

Is it really impossible to configure the screens to display the correct journey information?

Theres only one answer to that - it’s not impossible (indeed you could configure it to say whatever you want) it just requires more effort than LNER/Hitachi appear to be willing to make.

Correct visual information is important as those who are deaf or have limited hearing rely on it, likewise those who speak little/no English will also often find visual screens much easier to understand than announcements.

It really isn’t the end of the world if the automated announcements are switched off and the guard (or “train manager” as LNER likes to call them) makes manual announcements, indeed that’s standard procedure on the Mark 4 sets anyway.

 

[philthetube]

As far as I'm aware trains are permitted to run with no available PRM toilets due to faults. Where does it state that's not permitted?

If all the other toilets were locked out then there would be no legal issues.

 

[Falcon1200]

At Kings X yesterday (Saturday 9th) neither the 0830 Edinburgh or 0930 Inverness was displayed as calling at Carlisle. On board the 0830 however, Carlisle was shown as a stop !

 

[The_Van]

On the 10.30 King's Cross - Edinburgh yesterday. No reservations. Automated announcements re destination Aberdeen but corrected by the crew and advised that we were going via Carlisle

 

[keithboddey]

East meets West at Carlisle

 

[92002]

On the 10.30 King's Cross - Edinburgh yesterday. No reservations. Automated announcements re destination Aberdeen but corrected by the crew and advised that we were going via Carlisle

Carlisle Station broadcasts an announcement for diverted trains that these are not for public use. So stand clear of the next arriving train.

In other words it's a crew change stop or is it an Advertised passenger stop.

So it's either a stop for passengers to get on or off or not.

All seems a bit more than confusing to me. No matter what the information displays on trains and platforms say.

 

[Stampy]

On the 10.30 King's Cross - Edinburgh yesterday. No reservations. Automated announcements re destination Aberdeen but corrected by the crew and advised that we were going via Carlisle

I can back this up, as I was on this service from Peterborough to York

Train displays were saying Aberdeen, but staff were saying at EVERY stop that this train was going to Edinburgh VIA Carlisle - as well as the reservation system not working*.....

* This did cause some amusement on the train at Newark, when a party of "Toffs" got on and DEMANDED that the train manager find them some seats as they'd pre-booked.
Tarquin & Cressida (party organisers) were not impressed, and were going to "write a stiff letter of complaint"

Unfortunately, I crossed paths with them all again on the 2001 train from York back to Peterborough - where they barged their way into the seats, before opening the "Champers & Caviar"

 

[OliverH68]

* This did cause some amusement on the train at Newark, when a party of "Toffs" got on and DEMANDED that the train manager find them some seats as they'd pre-booked.
Tarquin & Cressida (party organisers) were not impressed, and were going to "write a stiff letter of complaint"

Glad I wasn't the only one that experienced a very similar group at Newark on the first weekend of the diverts then

 

[Cantab26]

the reservation system not working*.....

* This did cause some amusement on the train at Newark, when a party of "Toffs" got on and DEMANDED that the train manager find them some seats as they'd pre-booked.

Is the Guard not obliged to do that anyway under LNER’s ‘seat guarantee’?