Wigan to Bolton electrification officially given go ahead

[snowball]

Is there many bridges that need alterations? Off the top of my head I can only think of two. The one at the station it’s self and the brand new one down near crow nest.

Which station are you referring to here? If you mean Wigan, they seem to be taking great care to avoid the bridge that carries Wallgate.

The press release says that there are 17 bridges to be worked on. I mentioned a few in post #41. These are just identified from maps as what seem to be the biggest roads that go over the line. I have no idea which ones require work.

I didn't know there was a new bridge at Crow Nest. Any bridge built in the last 50-60 years is unlikely to need raising but may need its parapets raising.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

This does also include the platform extensions, bridge modifications and level crossing modifications. Perhaps there's an element of ancillary civils and E&P upgrades to go with this?

Platform extensions are hardly expensive although NR can make anything expensive but lets say 5m for this. Bridges to be rebuilt maybe 5-6 at 8m plus protection works at remainder raised parapets etc say 11m for structures. What level crossing? The signalling must be largely immunised as it already interfaces with 25kv either end but lets chuck in 2m for adding an an additional block section. No need for a grid infeed so this really ought to be down at the target level of 1m / stkm. So that leaves us with 57m for 20stkm or 2.8m/stkm still far too high but until they let contracts and provide values we won't know for sure. Lets hope theres still money in the kitty for others.

 

[stuu]

Do the figures for rail projects like this include 60 (or other) years of maintenance? That's what major road scheme prices include, which makes figuring out construction costs difficult

 

[Glenn1969]

Given the gov.uk release why has nothing about this appeared on media like Railnews this week ?

 

[The Planner]

Also depends how much risk has been factored in as well.

 

[snowball]

Given the gov.uk release why has nothing about this appeared on media like Railnews this week ?

A web news search finds items on Railway Gazette International, Railway Technology, Construction News, Construction Enquirer, Construction Index, railadvent and railway-news (I hadn't heard of the last two), plus some local newspaper and business news sites.

 

[Ken H]

Also depends how much risk has been factored in as well.

I bet government (i.e. Treasury) have factored in loads because of the cost over-runs on recent electrification projects.

 

[The Planner]

I bet government (i.e. Treasury) have factored in loads because of the cost over-runs on recent electrification projects.

Its factored in to all projects, normally at a substantial percentage, I doubt it is any more than normal on this.

 

[Llama]

Any signalling works tied in with this? Headway is very long and the signal section each way is pretty much the whole line from Lostock Jn to Crow Nest, again two aspect signalling with a distant after Westhoughton each way.

 

[hwl]

Is there many bridges that need alterations? Off the top of my head I can only think of two. The one at the station it’s self and the brand new one down near crow nest.

17 (including parapet modifications)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Sep 2021 ==

Platform extensions are hardly expensive although NR can make anything expensive but lets say 5m for this. Bridges to be rebuilt maybe 5-6 at 8m plus protection works at remainder raised parapets etc say 11m for structures. What level crossing? The signalling must be largely immunised as it already interfaces with 25kv either end but lets chuck in 2m for adding an an additional block section. No need for a grid infeed so this really ought to be down at the target level of 1m / stkm. So that leaves us with 57m for 20stkm or 2.8m/stkm still far too high but until they let contracts and provide values we won't know for sure. Lets hope theres still money in the kitty for others.

And 4 isolating sections and 2 overruns (towards Wallgate and Daisy Hill)

 

[The Planner]

Any signalling works tied in with this? Headway is very long and the signal section each way is pretty much the whole line from Lostock Jn to Crow Nest, again two aspect signalling with a distant after Westhoughton each way.

None. It was done in 2013.

 

[Efini92]

Which station are you referring to here? If you mean Wigan, they seem to be taking great care to avoid the bridge that carries Wallgate.

The press release says that there are 17 bridges to be worked on. I mentioned a few in post #41. These are just identified from maps as what seem to be the biggest roads that go over the line. I have no idea which ones require work.

I didn't know there was a new bridge at Crow Nest. Any bridge built in the last 50-60 years is unlikely to need raising but may need its parapets raising.

Sorry I was referring to ince.
To be honest I didn’t think there was 17 bridges between lostock junction and ince.
Google maps shows it as Jack’s lane, it was replaced last year. There was no adjustment to the parapets though.

 

[Ploughman]

I wonder if the OH designers are glad that the layout at Crow Nest Jcn has changed a bit over the years.
Image from Signalbox .com

 

[snowball]

I think the 17 bridges must include footbridges and other very small bridges. Trying to count from the 25k map or Google satellite view it seems to come to about 16 but there are one or two where you can't tell from either of those sources whether it's over or under. Is there a cab video covering the route?

 

[Ianno87]

I make the bridges:

1. Rumworth Road (already rebuilt)
2. Chew Moor Farm
3. Chulsey Gate Lane
4. M61 (does that count as 1, or 1 for each carriageway?)
5. Farm Bridge off Chew Moor Lane
6. A6 Manchester Road
7. Church Street (Westhoughton Station)
8. Footbridge off Wesley Street
9. Footbridge off Beatty Drive
Footpath crossing
10. Westhoughton Golf Club
Abutments for former Dicconson Lane branch bridge
11. Jack's Lane
12. Crow Nest
13. Hindley station footbridge
14. Hall Lane/Ladies Lane (Hindley station)
15. Footbridge off Highfield Road
16. Ince Green Lane (Ince station)
17. Ince station footbridge (across Down line only)

 

[snowball]

I was not counting Rumworth Road as there are already wires underneath so should require no work.

I think the M61 should be counted as one bridge.

OS shows a bridge over the line about midway between the Westhoughton Golf Club bridge and the former Dicconson Lane branch but it isn't on Google satellite view so it has presumably been removed. Its abutments seem to be still there?

If Jack's Lane bridge is new as Efini92 says then presumably it should require no work and not be counted?

They may be counting all overbridges, whether requiring work or not.

 

[WesternBiker]

I wonder if the OH designers are glad that the layout at Crow Nest Jcn has changed a bit over the years.
Image from Signalbox .com

The symmetry of the old layout is a thing of beauty, though, isn't it?

 

[johnnychips]

I am probably being really thick, but does ’parapet raising’ mean making the walls of the overbridges higher so you can’t look over them or fall off them? If so, what height do they have to be raised to?

 

[S&CLER]

I think the 17 bridges must include footbridges and other very small bridges. Trying to count from the 25k map or Google satellite view it seems to come to about 16 but there are one or two where you can't tell from either of those sources whether it's over or under. Is there a cab video covering the route?

225 Studios did a cabride video from Manchester Victoria via Bolton-Southport, time 63 minutes, using a 142 and a 150. The release date doesn't appear on the box but it must have been before the Ian Allan shop at Piccadilly closed since that's where I used to buy my DVDs. It's non-stop Bolton to Wigan, but I haven't watched it again before posting this. There was an earlier cabride VHS tape from Southport to Buxton, I think by Northwest Cabrides, or some such name, an ex-BR man in Warrington. I think that was via Bolton also, but I can't say for sure.

Edit: it was filmed in autumn 2012

 

[zwk500]

I am probably being really thick, but does ’parapet raising’ mean making the walls of the overbridges higher so you can’t look over them or fall off them? If so, what height do they have to be raised to?

Not being thick, yes raising is exactly as you say. Not sure of the exact height now required but most seem to be 1.8-2m tall.

 

[johnnychips]

Not being thick, yes raising is exactly as you say. Not sure of the exact height now required but most seem to be 1.8-2m tall.

Thanks for a ridiculously rapid reply. I wasn’t sure what a parapet was.

 

[Wtloild]

Maybe some of the cost is due to the mining history of the area?
It was an issue around Bolton & will probably be more so around Wigan.

 

[CHAPS2034]

Maybe some of the cost is due to the mining history of the area?
It was an issue around Bolton & will probably be more so around Wigan.

Here's a 1925 map showing mine locations and railways.

Note the proximity of 3 collieries close to the line between Lostock and Hindley. All closed in the 1930s

Wigan Coalfield - Northern Mine Research Society

This is an interactive map, point to a location with your mouse to see basic information, click to go to that page. The society is pleased to acknowledge Geoff Hayes’ donation of his collection of comprehensive notes, diagrams and photographs relating to Wigan collieries and associated...

www.nmrs.org.uk

 

[Springs Branch]

I make the bridges:
---- snip ----
12. Crow Nest
13. Hindley station footbridge
14. Hall Lane/Ladies Lane (Hindley station)
15. Footbridge off Highfield Road
16. Ince Green Lane (Ince station)
17. Ince station footbridge (across Down line only)

Let's hope that electrification doesn't result in removal of that fine wrought iron footbridge (known locally as the "Iron Bridge") west of Hindley station.

The venerable old bridge carries a public footpath and used to span the multiple tracks and goods loops hereabouts, now reduced to plain double track. In semaphore days, the bridge also doubled as a signal gantry.

The risk is loss of a fine piece of Victorian engineering and replacement with an uninspiring, off-the-shelf and astonishingly-expensive Network Rail footbridge.

Source: Brian at Wigan World website

Amateur drone video shows high-level vision of a substantial Victorian-era iron footbridge crossing a railway line in wooded countryside.

 

[Ianno87]

Let's hope that electrification doesn't result in removal of that fine wrought iron footbridge (known locally as the "Iron Bridge") west of Hindley station.

The venerable old bridge carries a public footpath and used to span the multiple tracks and goods loops hereabouts, now reduced to plain double track. In semaphore days, the bridge also doubled as a signal gantry.

The risk is loss of a fine piece of Victorian engineering and replacement with an uninspiring, off-the-shelf and astonishingly-expensive Network Rail footbridge.

Source: Brian at Wigan World website

Looks like there is relatively generous clearance underneath anyway, so shouldn't be an issue (or the bridge could be jacked up).

Wouldn't be surprised if that were a listed structure.

 

[edwin_m]

Or could have the "Cardiff solution" of insulated paint and surge arrestors? Jacking it up would involve re-doing some of the stone setts on the approach, which would detract from the character although wheelchair users might welcome it. It appears to have a mesh "parapet" which is probably an anti-vandalism measure but may also provide the requisite parapet height. Or may have to be replaced with something that doesn't have holes, as the hazard is partly about people dangling ropes down onto the OLE.

 

[The Planner]

Or you go down the expensive track lowering route.

 

[Glenn1969]

Or you go down the expensive track lowering route.

Which won't be approved by the Treasury any time soon ?

 

[The Planner]

Which won't be approved by the Treasury any time soon ?

Depends on what the best/only option is. If its listed and removal/replacement/serious alteration is needed and isnt approved, you track lower.

 

[John R]

We seem to be spending a lot of time debating a solution to a problem that we don't even know exists.