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Double deckers in other countries?

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busesrusuk

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ADL have already produced an electric E500 for the US market which is not based on a BYD chassis. There is an interesting article on this months Buses magazine about ADL which gives details of the product range, It also says that it is bringing BYD chassis manufacturing in-house although the batteries will still be supplied by BYD.

I understand that the first electric decker will be unveiled in Hong Kong soon but it is not a BYD or ADL product.
 
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Strathclyder

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Originally, the franchises issued by the HK government had a "buy British" clause in them hence why all the buses in HK were of UK origin. That requirement disappeared in the early 80's (IIRC) and other manufacturers stepped up to the plate such as Scania and various Japanese manufacturers.
Said clause was repealed by the Hong Kong government in 1983. Subsequently, Mercedes-Benz was the first non-British manufacturer to supply a double-decker bus to the territory that year, the vehicle in question being a prototype O305 supplied to Kowloon Motor Bus (numbered ME1 & registered CZ 6686) with Alexander R-Type bodywork. Based off of the success of ME1's near 2-year trial period, 40 more similar buses were ordered in 1985, numbered ME2 thru ME41 (linked photos below copyright of Flickr's John Lidstone & Steve Guess respectively). It should be noted that ME1 was supplied 'completely built up', while ME2-41 were supplied as completely knocked down (CKD for short) kits with the bodies assembled in KMB's own workshops.


 
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vlad

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Double-decker buses can be found in Germany. Berlin has already been mentioned but they can also be found in Aalen, a small town in Württemberg that doesn't seem important enough to need them.
 

Jordan Adam

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The E400EV and E200EV are both already effectively bodywork on a BYD chassis. I imagine any hypothetical future E500EV would be too.
Not wishing to veer too far off topic, a fully ADL developed Enviro500EV is already being offered in North America.

Alexander Dennis Limited (“ADL”), a subsidiary of NFI Group Inc. (“NFI”), one of the world’s leading independent global bus manufacturers, today unveiled its first zero-emission, three-axle double deck bus through a Vehicle Innovation Center (“VIC”) virtual event. The Enviro500EV CHARGE is the North American all-electric version of the world’s best-selling double decker.

The Enviro500EV CHARGE includes all the usual benefits that come with Alexander Dennis’s double deck buses, including panoramic views and low floor entry. It also features several industry firsts including full independent front suspension for a smoother and more comfortable ride, as well as an integrated electric drive system tailored to the requirements of North American transit agencies.

An electric portal axle with hub motors provides fast and efficient propulsion for the Enviro500EV CHARGE with 2×125kW peak power output. The drive and auxiliary axles have been switched with power supplied at the third axle, ensuring optimum weight distribution and high passenger capacity.

A class-leading 648kWh of energy storage is provided by batteries that are integrated in the chassis and the rear of the vehicle for a low center of gravity and great stability. These are fed through industry standard CCS1 charging points available on the left or the right side of the bus. Gantry charging is an option.

The system includes an electric heat pump to provide both heating and cooling, which minimizes the amount of energy required and increases range capability of the fully air-conditioned Enviro500EV CHARGE. A stylish new dashboard features an economy gauge and halo color to immediately give drivers prominent feedback on how economically they are operating the bus.

Like all Alexander Dennis double deckers for North America, the 45-foot Enviro500EV CHARGE offers an amazing passenger experience with reclined seating, overhead reading lights and air vents, USB ports, and Wi-Fi and multimedia capability – but its main feature is the high passenger capacity with up to 82 seats, including 53 on the upper deck. A well-lit staircase with conveniently positioned handrails, wide entrance and wide exit doors, a 1-in-6 mobility ramp, unobstructed isles with sculpted handrails, mobility devices, and fully flat floor through to the rear seating ensure outstanding accessibility.

The Enviro500EV CHARGE forms part of NFI’s market-leading range of zero emission buses and coaches alongside New Flyer’s Xcelsior CHARGE NG™ and Xcelsior CHARGE H2™, MCI’s J4500 CHARGE™ and D45 CRT LE CHARGE™, and the ARBOC Equess CHARGE™. It is Buy America compliant and Altoona testing is scheduled to start later this year.

Paul Soubry, NFI President and Chief Executive Officer, said: “We are excited to have Alexander Dennis join in on producing zero emission bus solutions for North America as this is the very first launch of an Alexander Dennis vehicle at our Vehicle Innovation Center. When acquiring ADL and welcoming the company into NFI Group in May 2019, their strong international growth agenda and double deck platform were extremely interesting to us and today’s launch brings together both of these elements. As NFI Group, we are leading the evolution to zero-emission mobility – Leading the ZEvolution as we like to call it – and Alexander Dennis is a central part of this.”

Paul Davies, ADL President and Managing Director, said: “The Alexander Dennis Enviro family is the world’s best-selling double deck bus of which over 18,000 have been sold around the globe. Today we add a milestone as we unveil our first ever battery electric, three-axle, high-capacity double deck bus. We are very excited by the positive feedback already received from transit agencies who have trialed this vehicle and look forward to delivering zero-emission service with our double decks across North America.”

Steve Walsh, Vice President of Alexander Dennis Inc., said: “There is no better or more sustainable way to move large numbers of passengers than the Enviro500EV CHARGE. 45 feet long, 2 decks, up to 82 seats, 648kWh of energy storage, and equally at home cruising at highways or in downtown city streets, it takes zero-emission mobility to an entirely new level.”



Forward-Looking Statements​

This press release may contain forward-looking statements which reflect the expectations of management regarding ADL’s and NFI’s strategic initiatives, new products, plans and opportunities, including the development and future production and sale of the new ADL Enviro500EV CHARGE and the benefits related to the new product. The words “believes”, “views”, “anticipates”, “plans”, “expects”, “intends”, “projects”, “forecasts”, “estimates”, “guidance” and “targets”, “may”, “will”, and similar expressions, are intended to identify forward looking statements.

Although the forward-looking statements contained in this press release are based upon what management believes to be reasonable assumptions, investors cannot be assured that actual results will be consistent with these forward-looking statements, and the differences may be material. Actual results may differ materially from management expectations as projected in such forward-looking statements for a variety of reasons, including, market and general economic conditions and economic conditions of and funding availability for customers to purchase the Enviro500EV CHARGE; the Enviro500EV CHARGE is a new product and no production models have yet been delivered to customers; there may not be sufficient customer demand for the Enviro500EV CHARGE, or at all, in order to commence or maintain manufacturing for the new product; the Enviro500EV CHARGE has not yet commenced testing at the testing facilities in Altoona, PA and the vehicle will not be delivered to customers until the vehicle has successfully completed such testing; and the expected economic, efficiency, increased range and other benefits of the product described in this release may not be as great as those anticipated or may not be realized at all; and the other risks and uncertainties discussed in the materials filed with the Canadian securities regulatory authorities and available on SEDAR at www.sedar.com. Due to the potential impact of these factors, NFI disclaims any intention or obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, unless required by applicable law.
 

busesrusuk

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Said clause was repealed by the Hong Kong government in 1983. Subsequently, Mercedes-Benz was the first non-British manufacturer to supply a double-decker bus to the territory that year, the vehicle in question being a prototype O305 (numbered ME1 & registered CZ 6686) with Alexander R-Type bodywork. Based off of the success of ME1's near 2-year trial period, 40 more similar buses were ordered in 1985, numbered ME2 thru ME41 (linked photos below copyright of Flickr's John Lidstone & Steve Guess respectively). It should be noted that ME1 was supplied 'completely built up', while ME2-41 were supplied as completely knocked down (CKD for short) kits with the bodies assembled in KMB's own workshops.


Thanks for confirming the timeline. I remember the ME's very well, truly impressive vehicles that were allocated to the 68 group of routes that thrashed up and down the Tuen Mun highway.

I also recall seeing one on the Alexander stand that was destined for Singapore at the NEC back in the early 80's - it looked very tall and ungainly.
 

johncrossley

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If we are including double decker coaches then they are in use all over Europe, for example with Flixbus. The Netherlands have started using them on certain limited stop services in recent years.
 

Brooke

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PostAuto (Switzerland), Metrobus (Mexico) and BVG (Germany) have fleets of Alexander Dennis Enviro 500 double deckers. I believe the initial order for the latter in Berlin consists of around 200 vehicles, with the potential for that to be more than doubled.
There’s also a dozen Enviro 500’s here in Lausanne, owned/operated by TL.

They run on the route 60 out to Froidville, which is about 10-15km away.

Flickr image (not mine):
 

johncrossley

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There have been plenty of ADL double deckers on this thread, but they seem to be triple axle and so are probably decent spec with air con etc. Is anyone outside the UK and Ireland using British standard (i.e. low spec) ADL double deckers?
 

gingerheid

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They have them on sightseeing routes in Tallinn.

How to double deckers work alongside tram routes? Can they pass under the wires?
 

MCR247

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They have them on sightseeing routes in Tallinn.

How to double deckers work alongside tram routes? Can they pass under the wires?
The wires are higher than double deckers.
 
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GusB

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Stockholm has open top double decker buses and I saw at least one Leyland Atlantean there as well.
Stockholm was an interesting situation. When they switched from driving on the left- to the right-hand side of the road, they decided to replace their whole fleet rather than convert. This resulted in a fairly sizeable order for Leyland, consisting of 200 Panthers and 50 Atlanteans, all of which were bodied at Park Royal. I wonder if the Atlantean you saw was one of that batch.
 

busesrusuk

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There have been plenty of ADL double deckers on this thread, but they seem to be triple axle and so are probably decent spec with air con etc. Is anyone outside the UK and Ireland using British standard (i.e. low spec) ADL double deckers?
No, most countries outside of the UK take public transport seriously and ensure that vehicles offer a decent ambience to encourage usage ;)
 

carlberry

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No, most countries outside of the UK take public transport seriously and ensure that vehicles offer a decent ambience to encourage usage ;)
I assume by 'most countries' you're actually just referring to a limited range of 'first world' countries as the users of transport in the majority of countries in the world would regard complaining about rattles on ADL products as a luxury!
 

busesrusuk

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I assume by 'most countries' you're actually just referring to a limited range of 'first world' countries as the users of transport in the majority of countries in the world would regard complaining about rattles on ADL products as a luxury!
fair point ;)
 

Strathclyder

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Thanks for confirming the timeline. I remember the ME's very well, truly impressive vehicles that were allocated to the 68 group of routes that thrashed up and down the Tuen Mun highway.
No worries and yes, they were very much KMB's/Hong Kong's answer to the Leyland-DAB Lion - am thinking of the Eastern Scottish examples primarily here - in terms of body similarites and speed/power.

In between ME1 and ME2-41 and in keeping with this tangent, KMB took delivery of a solitary Alexander-bodied Volvo B10M-50 Citybus (fleetnumber VMD1 & registration DC 4146) in July 1984, the only such vehicle to ever operate in the terrority. It's service life was cut short when it was gutted by fire in February 1986, which would go some way to explain the lack of pictures of it. Linked below is the best of them (copyright of Flickr's John Lidstone).

 

RT4038

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I think you'll find plenty of double deck coaches are fairly widespread in South America, and both buses and coaches in South Africa.
 

delt1c

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I'm surprised Malta never really took to them... they used to use old GB buses and with no railways it's not like they need to worry about low bridges much! ;)
Height restrictions, look at the route from Misida to Sliema and the overhanging trees as an example.We do have them for sightseing for which we used to have ex London Titans, a Northern General Routemaster, an ex Northampton Daimler and in Gozo a Fleetline. Alas all these have gone ( to where i dont know)
 

alex397

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Berlin is of course the most famous place with double deckers outside the UK. It’s interesting how they ended up operating huge amounts of them compared to places elsewhere on the continent.
Double deckers are found in more places than I realised before I started travelling, and not just for sightseeing.

I was surprised that Liechtenstein has MAN Lion’s City double deckers (same as those in Berlin) in service in the fascinating tiny country.
I believe the operator, LIEmobil, is a subsidiary of Swiss PostAuto which may have had an influence in this.

I can’t recall exactly where, but Czechia has a double-decker on a public service route (slightly different to the usual sightseeing routes which are usually private)

Double deckers for sightseeing are pretty common, often with ex-Berlin double deckers. Krakow had ex-Copenhagen double deckers on their City Sightseeing.
Zagreb, Croatia had an open top Routemaster used for sightseeing.
 

Robertj21a

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Berlin is of course the most famous place with double deckers outside the UK. It’s interesting how they ended up operating huge amounts of them compared to places elsewhere on the continent.
Double deckers are found in more places than I realised before I started travelling, and not just for sightseeing.

I was surprised that Liechtenstein has MAN Lion’s City double deckers (same as those in Berlin) in service in the fascinating tiny country.
I believe the operator, LIEmobil, is a subsidiary of Swiss PostAuto which may have had an influence in this.

I can’t recall exactly where, but Czechia has a double-decker on a public service route (slightly different to the usual sightseeing routes which are usually private)

Double deckers for sightseeing are pretty common, often with ex-Berlin double deckers. Krakow had ex-Copenhagen double deckers on their City Sightseeing.
Zagreb, Croatia had an open top Routemaster used for sightseeing.
I think you will find that many people would consider Hong Kong to be 'the most famous place with double deckers outside the UK'. Also, some might include Singapore or India.
 

Royston Vasey

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Megabus USA have a fleet of double deck VanHool TD925s, which would probably be considered coaches here, which just... just... fit through the Lincoln Tunnel (NJ to midtown NYC) with a couple of inches to spare. They don't fit through the Holland Tunnel (NJ to downtown NYC)
 

alex397

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I think you will find that many people would consider Hong Kong to be 'the most famous place with double deckers outside the UK'. Also, some might include Singapore or India.
Yes, you are right. I was only thinking of Europe, I’m amazed I forgot about Hong Kong.
 

Mikey C

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The Enviro 500 is becoming increasingly popular in North America - especially Canada but a large fleet operate operate on local services in Las Vegas; as befits the place one or two of the drivers are real entertainers using the PA system to good effect to keep a happy bus(!).
Yes, the E500s provide a very good regular service in Las Vegas down the strip, and are the easiest way of getting around.
 
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XAM2175

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I have used the BVG double deckers in berlin. Great way to see the city, and they fill in some awkward gaps in the rail based provision.
The best feature by far of many of BVG's examples has to be windscreen wipers for the upper deck :E

Probably has something to do with the fact it was part of the UK until 1997. They even have double decker trams, like the UK (well, Blackpool).
Hong Kong was a Crown Colony until 1981 and a British Dependent Territory from then until 1997 - never "a part of" the United Kingdom.
 

The exile

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I have used the BVG double deckers in berlin. Great way to see the city, and they fill in some awkward gaps in the rail based provision.
They have a long history in Berlin - first introduced in 1925 ( proper roofed-in double-deckers, that is).
 

Strathclyder

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The best feature by far of many of BVG's examples has to be windscreen wipers for the upper deck :E
A few Duple Metsec-bodied Dennis Tridents also had upper deck windscreen wipers from new, most notably Citybus of Hong Kong's HM 1086 (2100; the company's prototype Trident coach) & JB 5571 (2700; the company's first 10.6m Trident). A few of the production Cityflyer Trident coaches also had upper-deck windscreen wipers, but these, along with the two early examples cited above, were removed later in the vehicle's lives.
 
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