Transport for Wales 769's

[Grumpy Git]

There here to stay now, complaining about them isn’t going to achieve anything.

Brush should have supplied them with one of these:

 

[Bikeman78]

Still in the production/delivery phase.

The Home Counties would love the new units promised, alas we’re to be lumbered with 769s too! So just make the best of it we can.

There here to stay now, complaining about them isn’t going to achieve anything.

What's the rescue plan for the GWR units? Presumably not towing it from Redhill or wherever at 5 mph!

 

[JN114]

What's the rescue plan for the GWR units? Presumably not towing it from Redhill or wherever at 5 mph!

Not widespread knowledge yet - and well off topic for this thread

 

[Bikeman78]

Not widespread knowledge yet - and well off topic for this thread

I thought it would be an interesting comparison. I can't believe that the 5 mph loco plan was ever deemed acceptable. Perhaps they hoped it would never be required. I think three have been rescued with a loco so far.

 

[Bob Price]

That is excellent footage. I believe the 319s that transferred to Northern received new pantographs, but your shows 769002 with a pantograph still fitted, which has now been removed? Interesting.

Yes they had them taken off. Not used so just extra weight. So they are stored in case they are needed at a later date.

 

[Caaardiff]

There's supposes to be 5 in service for the Sept timetable change. A fair bit of work has been going on a Canton to get them up to the job, but I'm not sure how the continual failures and issues are linked to this work. Time will tell.
Hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel, otherwise its going to be a tough time until the new fleet arrives.
That then begs the question on how long TfW plan to keep them.

 

[Bob Price]

That's a thread for speculative ideas

 

[Wyrleybart]

There's supposes to be 5 in service for the Sept timetable change. A fair bit of work has been going on a Canton to get them up to the job, but I'm not sure how the continual failures and issues are linked to this work. Time will tell.
Hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel, otherwise its going to be a tough time until the new fleet arrives.
That then begs the question on how long TfW plan to keep them.

Surely when delivered "new" from Loughborough they should have been up to the job.
Not only that, there are two engines on each set, so you would hope that by losing one of the rafts, there would still be some redundancy to get you home. Considering they are the replacements for 142/143 and 150 in sometimes quite rural parts of the network, i don't recall having T bird locos srategically placed at Carmarthen, Llandudno Junction, Workington, Sheffield etc.

The flex ing of class 769 has seen a newer generation of kit installed which should be more rather than less reliable, meaning more reliability in service, but it is clearly not happening.

 

[Bikeman78]

There's supposes to be 5 in service for the Sept timetable change. A fair bit of work has been going on a Canton to get them up to the job, but I'm not sure how the continual failures and issues are linked to this work. Time will tell.
Hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel, otherwise its going to be a tough time until the new fleet arrives.
That then begs the question on how long TfW plan to keep them.

There are supposed to be six of them running Mondays to Fridays now. This morning there was one.

 

[JonathanH]

There are supposed to be six of them running Mondays to Fridays now. This morning there was one.

769006 replaced 150241 later in the day to join 769445 in service.

 

[Bikeman78]

769006 replaced 150241 later in the day to join 769445 in service.

Little victories!

 

[507020]

The 769's are nothing other than a dismal failure both here and at Northern. How long would they have lasted on a London/Home Counties diagram? Answer N/A, (they'd have had new units in the first place).

I think Porterbrook are keen on making it a hat trick.

What's the rescue plan for the GWR units? Presumably not towing it from Redhill or wherever at 5 mph!

No idea about GWR, but the rescue strategy at Northern when 769450 failed at Southport on Friday was to leave it stranded there all weekend, before finally dragging it back with 769456, while the latter was in passenger service! The failed unit was locked out of use. Luckily platforms 4, 5 and 6 at Southport are long enough to accommodate 8 carriages, but haven’t for many years. It certainly went faster than 5mph.

Yes they had them taken off. Not used so just extra weight. So they are stored in case they are needed at a later date.

Are they of the Stone Faiveley or the Brecknell Willis type?

The flex ing of class 769 has seen a newer generation of kit installed which should be more rather than less reliable, meaning more reliability in service, but it is clearly not happening.

Clearly not. The problem may be to do with mixing newer and older generations of technology.

 

[AM9]

Are they of the Stone Faiveley or the Brecknell Willis type?

The 319/1s were given Brecknell-Willis pantographs from new, the 319/0s that were converted to 319/3s also inherited B-W types, both because their duties involved a lot of 100mph running. By the end of their Thameslink duties, most of the others had their AMBR pantographs replaced, despite running the metro services where linespeed limits on the MML slows are 80mph or below. Pantographs aren't really heavy in the big scheme of things, - 2-400kg on a 150tonne four-car unit is unlikely to affect speeds or acceleration. As for removing them when not needed in service (e.g. 3rd rail running only or in this case as 769s in a diesel-only deployment) that is dome to prevent them gettring clogged up with leaves and twigs.

 

[Buzz68]

Anyone have any ideas what will have happen to 769452 after Saturday's failure. Last time it failed and was dragged to Rhymney it managed to get back to Canton 2 days later on its own? I believe it's still attached to 37418 at Rhymney so wonder if it's fixable or whether it will need a middle of the night run at 5mph to Canton (boy that will be long!)

 

[AM9]

Anyone have any ideas what will have happen to 769452 after Saturday's failure. Last time it failed and was dragged to Rhymney it managed to get back to Canton 2 days later on its own? I believe it's still attached to 37418 at Rhymney so wonder if it's fixable or whether it will need a middle of the night run at 5mph to Canton (boy that will be long!)

Surely it depends on ther nature of the failure. A train that won't go at all isn't necessarily a difficult fault to diagnose or even fix.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Anyone have any ideas what will have happen to 769452 after Saturday's failure. Last time it failed and was dragged to Rhymney it managed to get back to Canton 2 days later on its own? I believe it's still attached to 37418 at Rhymney so wonder if it's fixable or whether it will need a middle of the night run at 5mph to Canton (boy that will be long!)

Jusr drag it a bit further and let Woodham Bro's "repair" it.

 

[PHILIPE]

There are supposed to be six of them running Mondays to Fridays now. This morning there was one.

Six have never been achievable, in fact I think it was reduced t0 4 but still proved too many. Just 769006 out today.

 

[Buzz68]

Jusr drag it a bit further and let Woodham Bro's "repair" it.

Lol or Simms in Newport!

 

[Cardiff123]

There's supposes to be 5 in service for the Sept timetable change. A fair bit of work has been going on a Canton to get them up to the job, but I'm not sure how the continual failures and issues are linked to this work. Time will tell.
Hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel, otherwise its going to be a tough time until the new fleet arrives.
That then begs the question on how long TfW plan to keep them.

It's pretty obvious that unless TfW's engineers can work literal miracles over the next 5 weeks, the September TT uplift in services cannot happen as planned.
There has been speculation in various industry magazine articles that TfW could keep the 769s for future speculative Swansea to Bristol services possibly, but honestly if I was TfW I'd just want shot of the things at the earliest opportunity. As things stand, the 769s are due to leave TfW as soon as the Stadler Flirts start running on the Rhymney line, or as soon as enough 150/153s can be cascaded from elsewhere in Wales to replace them.

Surely when delivered "new" from Loughborough they should have been up to the job.
Not only that, there are two engines on each set, so you would hope that by losing one of the rafts, there would still be some redundancy to get you home. Considering they are the replacements for 142/143 and 150 in sometimes quite rural parts of the network, i don't recall having T bird locos srategically placed at Carmarthen, Llandudno Junction, Workington, Sheffield etc.

TfW's 769s have only ever been intended for the Penarth - Rhymney line. Don't know where you got the idea they'd ever be a TfW 'go anywhere' train like their 150s and 153s.

 

[Buzz68]

Surely it depends on ther nature of the failure. A train that won't go at all isn't necessarily a difficult fault to diagnose or even fix.

I think it was loss of traction. We shall see what pops up.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Still in the production/delivery phase.

The Home Counties would love the new units promised, alas we’re to be lumbered with 769s too! So just make the best of it we can.

There here to stay now, complaining about them isn’t going to achieve anything.

It's pretty obvious that unless TfW's engineers can work literal miracles over the next 5 weeks, the September TT uplift in services cannot happen as planned.
There has been speculation in various industry magazine articles that TfW could keep the 769s for future speculative Swansea to Bristol services possibly, but honestly if I was TfW I'd just want shot of the things at the earliest opportunity. As things stand, the 769s are due to leave TfW as soon as the Stadler Flirts start running on the Rhymney line, or as soon as enough 150/153s can be cascaded from elsewhere in Wales to replace them.



TfW's 769s have only ever been intended for the Penarth - Rhymney line. Don't know where you got the idea they'd ever be a TfW 'go anywhere' train like their 150s and 153s.

Sorry. I unintentionally misled you. What I tried to say is that T bird locos have never been needed for diesel trains, up until Stadler 755s and Wabtec 769s. Therefore, we have never seen T birds anywhere other than Rhymney and Colchester.

I personally feel embarrassed that our once great railway industry has slumped to the depths of roading diesel unit cars down on low loaders, whilst a diesel runs light from a similar location to shunt them over the tracks to the depot. Yes, I know about Moseley tunnel in the Birmingham suburbs, but 769s have been hauled to Reading via Didcot. Surely they could run via Foxhall Jn, Badminton and Severn Tunnel ? As they are diesel trains why can't they run under their own power. Utter bonkers

 

[PHILIPE]

Sorry. I unintentionally misled you. What I tried to say is that T bird locos have never been needed for diesel trains, up until Stadler 755s and Wabtec 769s. Therefore, we have never seen T birds anywhere other than Rhymney and Colchester.

I personally feel embarrassed that our once great railway industry has slumped to the depths of roading diesel unit cars down on low loaders, whilst a diesel runs light from a similar location to shunt them over the tracks to the depot. Yes, I know about Moseley tunnel in the Birmingham suburbs, but 769s have been hauled to Reading via Didcot. Surely they could run via Foxhall Jn, Badminton and Severn Tunnel ? As they are diesel trains why can't they run under their own power. Utter bonkers

There are often many reasons why things take place which may seem bonkers to the outsider. Are they cleared to run through the Severn Tunnel ? What about costs and the cheaper options ? Things we don't know but legitimate reasons why this or that cannot be done.

 

[Bikeman78]

Six have never been achievable, in fact I think it was reduced t0 4 but still proved too many. Just 769006 out today.

Which begs the question, when will it be achievable? Almost every fleet in the UK achieves more than 75% availability.

 

[Grumpy Git]

There are often many reasons why things take place which may seem bonkers to the outsider. Are they cleared to run through the Severn Tunnel ? What about costs and the cheaper options ? Things we don't know but legitimate reasons why this or that cannot be done.

The very fact that it can be cheaper to load and unload any ("dead" but otherwise undamaged) wheeled rail vehicle onto a low-loader is ludicrous.

 

[Bikeman78]

The very fact that it can be cheaper to load and unload any ("dead" but otherwise undamaged) wheeled rail vehicle onto a low-loader is ludicrous.

Not to mention the disruption to the road network. Hard to see how driving outsize loads is safer than the rail option not to mention coupling a loco to a train is a lot easier and safer than winching four vehicles on to low loaders. As regards route clearance, numerous classes of EMU have been towed hundreds of miles along lines they have never been on before to go for scrap, e.g. class 314s from Glasgow to Newport, to name but one.

 

[PHILIPE]

Six have never been achievable, in fact I think it was reduced t0 4 but still proved too many. Just 769006 out today.

769445 turned out in the middle of the day today to increase the number out to two replacing a pair of dog boxes

 

[Anonymous10]

It's pretty obvious that unless TfW's engineers can work literal miracles over the next 5 weeks, the September TT uplift in services cannot happen as planned.
There has been speculation in various industry magazine articles that TfW could keep the 769s for future speculative Swansea to Bristol services possibly, but honestly if I was TfW I'd just want shot of the things at the earliest opportunity. As things stand, the 769s are due to leave TfW as soon as the Stadler Flirts start running on the Rhymney line, or as soon as enough 150/153s can be cascaded from elsewhere in Wales to replace them.



TfW's 769s have only ever been intended for the Penarth - Rhymney line. Don't know where you got the idea they'd ever be a TfW 'go anywhere' train like their 150s and 153s.

will make for a interesting addition to the sprinter roster replacing its replacement

 

[Wyrleybart]

There are often many reasons why things take place which may seem bonkers to the outsider. Are they cleared to run through the Severn Tunnel ? What about costs and the cheaper options ? Things we don't know but legitimate reasons why this or that cannot be done.

If 769s aren't cleared through the Severn Tunnel they bloody well should be, especially given the rumour about the potential SWA-BRI service. They are effectively a 150 with different engines, funny valances and with non functioning shoebeam brackets which could have been removed.

The fact that it might be cheaper to move rail vehicles by road should not be the reason, simply because the haulier and owner are importing risk when manoeuvring these things through crowded streets as well as A roads and motorways.

That fact that a 57 managed to tow one of the first deliveries to Cardiff by rail - apparently without any bits of railway being scraped tells us everything.

769445 turned out in the middle of the day today to increase the number out to two replacing a pair of dog boxes

I think 445 or 452 night stopped at Rhymney and worked back to Cardiff, then probably onto the shed.

Two out of the nine in traffic today is a disgrace

 

[PHILIPE]

If 769s aren't cleared through the Severn Tunnel they bloody well should be, especially given the rumour about the potential SWA-BRI service. They are effectively a 150 with different engines, funny valances and with non functioning shoebeam brackets which could have been removed.

The fact that it might be cheaper to move rail vehicles by road should not be the reason, simply because the haulier and owner are importing risk when manoeuvring these things through crowded streets as well as A roads and motorways.

That fact that a 57 managed to tow one of the first deliveries to Cardiff by rail - apparently without any bits of railway being scraped tells us everything.

I think 445 or 452 night stopped at Rhymney and worked back to Cardiff, then probably onto the shed.

Two out of the nine in traffic today is a disgrace

Perhaps you should get a job in the industry as you seem to know it inside out and able to tell the people who know better what to do.

 

[507020]

Perhaps you should get a job in the industry as you seem to know it inside out and able to tell the people who know better what to do.

It just isn’t better to transport rail vehicles by road. There can’t possibly be any lines where a standard Mk3 body shell isn’t route cleared, after it was used prolifically by BR for vehicles built in the 80s. Has nothing Mk3 based ever run through the Severn Tunnel since it was built and is there any documentation anywhere which states that it would be breached and flood if one was to?