Fantasy: what trains would you make last forever?

[JohnElliott]

Hastings thumpers, used as emergency reserve of 'go-anywhere' trains allowing some service to be provided if a problem should happen to ground an entire fleet.

 

[Journeyman]

Hastings thumpers, used as emergency reserve of 'go-anywhere' trains allowing some service to be provided if a problem should happen to ground an entire fleet.

With you on that if we can have the buffet cars back.

 

[lkpridgeon]

444/450/185's and any variants of such as out of all the trains I've been on there's just something about them that I love to the point that If I got my way the whole network would run them. If only we had a diesel/bi-mode version of a 444...

 

[AM9]

444/450/185's and any variants of such as out of all the trains I've been on there's just something about them that I love to the point that If I got my way the whole network would run them. If only we had a diesel/bi-mode version of a 444...

So I'm not alone for seeing the Desiro UK as a quite pleasant train. The 450 is unfortunately deliberately crippled, a) by relying on a poor power supply system and b) fitted with 2+3 seating in standard class.
The Desiros, despite being 16+ years old are still unequalled in their type in passenger comfort. They ride better and are quieter *than the Electrostars and their bodies don't taper asmuch as the Electrostars. The latest EMUs, the class 195s have a comparatively cheap construction feel about them and in no way match the 350s.


* except for the air conditioning

 

[Journeyman]

Certainly the Desiros get a lot of fundamentals right, including a nice spacious interior (thanks to the boxy bodywork) and good seating and ride quality. I took a class 397 from Edinburgh to Manchester last week, and although a bit more "InterCity" than the previous 350/4 units, I'm not convinced it was actually an improvement.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Other: Class 101 DMU. Were probably the best built 1950/60 DMU. One simple reason: front (and rear) view.

 

[mrcheek]

No surprise that HSTs are winning this.
After all, it looks like the TOCs are trying to make them last forever

 

[Bletchleyite]

Certainly the Desiros get a lot of fundamentals right, including a nice spacious interior (thanks to the boxy bodywork) and good seating and ride quality. I took a class 397 from Edinburgh to Manchester last week, and although a bit more "InterCity" than the previous 350/4 units, I'm not convinced it was actually an improvement.

I've long said that a "Class 344", i.e. a 444 with a pantograph, would be a wonderful thing. The 397 sort of is that, but the build quality really is appalling in comparison.

I reckon the Desiros will easily see out 50 years (except possibly the 185s due to diesel falling out of favour). Proper German quality, if a bit weighty.

 

[AM9]

I've long said that a "Class 344", i.e. a 444 with a pantograph, would be a wonderful thing. The 397 sort of is that, but the build quality really is appalling in comparison.

I reckon the Desiros will easily see out 50 years (except possibly the 185s due to diesel falling out of favour). Proper German quality, if a bit weighty.

In slightly more modern times we might have seen Siemens offering a Desiro DEMU or even a Bi-Mode. The 23m long cars would probably be able to accommodate adequate diesel or battery genset kit to make for a 100mph unit. That would be a fair regional or cross country train that with 1/3,2/3 doors wouldn't have the dwell disadvantages of the end doors that some crave for.

 

[Journeyman]

In slightly more modern times we might have seen Siemens offering a Desiro DEMU or even a Bi-Mode. The 23m long cars would probably be able to accommodate adequate diesel or battery genset kit to make for a 100mph unit. That would be a fair regional or cross country train that with 1/3,2/3 doors wouldn't have the dwell disadvantages of the end doors that some crave for.

There doesn't seem to be much demand for it, though - Bombardier have offered a bi-mode Aventra for some time, and no-one has taken them up on it. I think the FLIRT has the bi-mode regional market stitched up quite nicely anyway.

 

[AM9]

There doesn't seem to be much demand for it, though - Bombardier have offered a bi-mode Aventra for some time, and no-one has taken them up on it. I think the FLIRT has the bi-mode regional market stitched up quite nicely anyway.

Yes I agree. Somehow I managed to type "in slightly more modern times" when I meant "in slightly earlier times" on which I was thinking about 10 years ago. Just because the UK has only just discovered bi-mode, it doesn't mean that many continental customers weren't already ahead of our game.

 

[Gareth]

It's got to be pacers. I'm going to miss all the complaining.

 

[Journeyman]

It's got to be pacers. I'm going to miss all the complaining.

Class 141s in particular.

 

[CBlue]

1992 LU stock.

 

[py_megapixel]

I'm another person who would be quite happy to see the entire network run with Siemens stock. Velaros on the continent, when specced well, are nothing short of an absolute delight to travel on. British Desiros have already proven themselves to be high-quality reliable trains. And the only thing really wrong with the Desiro City is the spartan interior thanks to typical DfT costcutting; fit some nicer floors, seats and lighting and they're the perfect high density commuter stock.

Other than that I've always had a soft spot for the 323s, but if they were going to be kept in the long term, they really need to rip out that god-awful TrainFX PIS and replace it with something which actually works properly!

 

[aar0]

I'd very much like to see many more years from InterCity 225 sets, with the caveat that they have to be in IC Swallow livery unless I approve something else. Additionally it will be a criminal offence to possess or distribute photographs of them in VTEC livery

Ditto! Very glad that they’re living a new life in Wales, although without the 91s

 

[Clayton]

Meh, not sure why people are mentioning plasticky units. You want the diesel hydraulics , Claytons, and Deltics, with a bit of steam in Devon, Cumbria and Scotland

 

[py_megapixel]

Meh, not sure why people are mentioning plasticky units. You want the diesel hydraulics , Claytons, and Deltics, with a bit of steam in Devon, Cumbria and Scotland

You might. I certainly don't!

 

[Bletchleyite]

They looked very impressive, but were built down to a price, and the decision to re-use the REP's already somewhat knackered traction equipment caught up with them eventually. I loved the original configuration, but they ended up dating badly, and in terms of accessibility, reliability and general suitability for the job, they've long been poor.

I'll miss them, but I can tell why they're going.

Indeed. They were (in original design) everything Mk3s should have been, but Mk3s are now old.

 

[Journeyman]

Indeed. They were (in original design) everything Mk3s should have been, but Mk3s are now old.

Rather tellingly they were the last Mark 3 vehicles built as well (at least in 23m end door format), so the design was somewhat dated when they were new, like much of the Southern's EMUs. The REP motor coaches before them were the last ever Mark 1 vehicles built.

 

[XAM2175]

Ditto! Very glad that they’re living a new life in Wales, although without the 91s

I want to be glad but I'm refusing to acknowledge them until TfW get that hideous bloody red-and-white vinyl off them, hah.

Meh, not sure why people are mentioning plasticky units. You want the diesel hydraulics , Claytons, and Deltics, with a bit of steam in Devon, Cumbria and Scotland

Yes, and with all due respect to your vision, I've a kettle in my kitchen and if I want diesel-hydraulics I'll just nip over to Germany where they actually work

 

[py_megapixel]

I want to be glad but I'm refusing to acknowledge them until TfW get that hideous bloody red-and-white vinyl off them, hah.

I think you'll find they'll be replacing your red-and-white vinyl, with a red and white coat of paint!

On a more serious note, I imagine the fact that the brand colours match is part of the reason that TfW aren't rushing to get them through a repaint, as they have been quite enthusiastic about removing Arriva's livery from things!

 

[liamf656]

I’m going to go a bit more in-depth with my reasonings here:

The older Desiro family (185/350/360/444/450), have potential to be extensively refurbished and last a while. They are still modern given that the oldest are nearly 20 years old, and if they are showing little sign of ageing I think they can last a good few more decades if they are well looked after

A similar reason for 158/9s. The well looked after ones are very well presentable and even at 30 years old they show very little signs of old age to the average passenger (compare them to 165/166s). I think they would last another 10/20 years, maybe even more

The Turbostars (168/170/171/172) are also very modern for their age, although some are a bit more worn out than others. Give them a bit of TLC and I think they will continue to serve their respective operators well. Some 168s are currently going through a hybrid trial and if successful it’ll really give them brownie points for modern needs

365s we’re sent off lease way too soon. They’re a personal favourite of mine so I’m giving a bit less justification for this one.

68/88s are also favourites of mine and I would like to see them last a long time

 

[Mikey C]

I’m going to go a bit more in-depth with my reasonings here:

The older Desiro family (185/350/360/444/450), have potential to be extensively refurbished and last a while. They are still modern given that the oldest are nearly 20 years old, and if they are showing little sign of ageing I think they can last a good few more decades if they are well looked after

A similar reason for 158/9s. The well looked after ones are very well presentable and even at 30 years old they show very little signs of old age to the average passenger (compare them to 165/166s). I think they would last another 10/20 years, maybe even more

The Turbostars (168/170/171/172) are also very modern for their age, although some are a bit more worn out than others. Give them a bit of TLC and I think they will continue to serve their respective operators well. Some 168s are currently going through a hybrid trial and if successful it’ll really give them brownie points for modern needs

365s we’re sent off lease way too soon. They’re a personal favourite of mine so I’m giving a bit less justification for this one.

68/88s are also favourites of mine and I would like to see them last a long time

The Chiltern 165s certainly don't look old inside, and unlike the 158/159s, their air conditioning/cooling works!

 

[Rhydgaled]

I’ve never understood the fascination with the 442s.

I think I have (along with the similar fascination with 'AC 444s') - they are (off the top of my head) the only 100/110mph electric units with single-width doors at the vehicle ends. Everything else either has double-width doors-at-thirds or is high speed stock with pointy noses and top speeds of 125mph or more.

I'd very much like to see many more years from InterCity 225 sets, with the caveat that they have to be in IC Swallow livery unless I approve something else. Additionally it will be a criminal offence to possess or distribute photographs of them in VTEC livery

My 'other' vote was for the IC225s, along with 373s (in the classic Eurostar livery and possibly a few of the 'NOL' sets in GNER), mark 3 DVTs (with some matching coaches) and maybe 444s and 442s. Your poll doesn't list locos, but there are lots of loco classes including 60s, 50s, 47s and 92s that I don't want to see disappear. My votes for diesel items are on the assumption that, as we are working miricles by making stuff last forever, the greenhouse gas emissions would be nullified. Without the GHG nullification, then at the very least I'd still have one 159, one 175/1, a bunch of mark 3s, the world-diesel-speed-record pair of IC125 power cars, 43002 and the prototype power car last forever as static exhibits. As a static exhibit, I'd also want to keep a 222 or 221; for all their faults they are good-looking machines.

As for the liveries on IC225s, I would agree regarding banning the 'basic' VTEC livery but some of the specials aren't quite so bad - 91001 and 91031 (first and last) should be required to be in Swallow livery (or a variation of it) with 91001 carying the 'Swallow' nameplates and any 91 in Swallow livery needs to have the grills fixed (91119 looks wrong on one side because the extra grill is black and ruins the white stripe). The Battle Of Britain Memorial Flight livery on 91110 is great so that one I'd certainly keep too.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Seriously I would go for most of the Mk3s.

I believe that older trains (like cars) are easier to keep going as they are more basic. All caves in when parts availability fails. But easier to make a copy of parts for old technology than for new technology.

EPB's , HAP,s CIG,s , CEP,s, VEP,s,Thumpers,
I

Ah yes. Take me there.

Westerns and my beloved 442s.

Hastings thumpers, used as emergency reserve of 'go-anywhere' trains allowing some service to be provided if a problem should happen to ground an entire fleet.

But that is what an HST is for.

So I'm not alone for seeing the Desiro UK as a quite pleasant train. The 450 is unfortunately deliberately crippled, a) by relying on a poor power supply system and b) fitted with 2+3 seating in standard class.
The Desiros, despite being 16+ years old are still unequalled in their type in passenger comfort. They ride better and are quieter *than the Electrostars and their bodies don't taper asmuch as the Electrostars. The latest EMUs, the class 195s have a comparatively cheap construction feel about them and in no way match the 350s.


* except for the air conditioning

Has to be said I prefer traveling along the WCML in a 350 rather than a 390. Cheaper, more open and less aggressive + noisy airconditioning.

Meh, not sure why people are mentioning plasticky units. You want the diesel hydraulics , Claytons, and Deltics, with a bit of steam in Devon, Cumbria and Scotland

Westerns and my beloved 442s.

 

[CarrotPie]

Electrostars. Best trains ever in my mind. 395s, 465s, 466s would be nice too.

 

[miklcct]

High speed trains designed for maximum standing capacity for commuting purposes for fast travel between outer suburbs and London where everyone goes into work but housing never satisfies demand, which run at 3-minute headway in peak hours and achieve full loading every train into London.

 

[AM9]

High speed trains designed for maximum standing capacity for commuting purposes for fast travel between outer suburbs and London where everyone goes into work but housing never satisfies demand, which run at 3-minute headway in peak hours and achieve full loading every train into London.

Sounds like a class 700 apart from the "high-speed' bit (which could be fixed if it was proven that 125mph was worth the minute or two saved on a 30km run). Their capacity is over 7 pax per metre of platform length.

 

[miklcct]

which could be fixed if it was proven that 125mph was worth the minute or two saved on a 30km run

When London grows to the extent that such volume of commuters frequently travel from a 50+ km suburb, it will be worth it.