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Ridiculous fares on GWR

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miklcct

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If you pay £30 for a railcard and immediately pay £34 less for a rail ticket it hasn't really cost anything, has it?
If you are given a 20% discount immediately for 2 x £50 train journeys, it save you both £20 in total immediately, isn't it?

You keep talking about hassle and jumping through hoops to get a railcard. I really don't get this, it's a straightforward process. And risk because the railcard is signed in the wrong pen? Come on.
It was not a straightforward process for me. When I bought my 26-30 railcard, the railcard website didn't accept my passport I used. I phoned customer service and she told me to send emails such that my order would be processed manually which I didn't bother do it, and I ended buying my railcard on East Midlands Railway!
 
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skyhigh

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But there's still risks
That thread is a poor example. As far as I can tell the OP bought a physical railcard online, and tried travelling with the receipt as the railcard hadn't arrived in time.

As to the second one - 'Trouble signing railcard' - the OP says they were struggling to sign it due to a manufacturing fault missing the signature strip off. They didn't get any hassle using it. Has anyone ever had any trouble for not signing a physical railcard....?
 

miami

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I think the airfares to New York are currently at £7000 because the airlines don't want people to book them

They tend to be that price normally. It's about £1 a mile.

By comparison a "first class" return from London to Manchester is over £1.50 a mile, and Business in BA is far far better.

Throw in a saturday night stay and book a few weeks in advance and it drops to £3500 return.
 

Doctor Fegg

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It depends entirely on the railcard. You mentioned travelling with family, if a family and friends railcard works for you then no photo required and applying is a simple process, just as it was 5 years ago. What it isn't is bureaucratic.
The fact that "it depends entirely on the railcard" is pretty bureaucratic, tbh.

Depending on the journey I'm making, it's better value for me to either use a Cotswold Line Railcard, a Network Card, or a Family & Friends Railcard. (Total cost: £70pa.) A couple of weeks ago it might have been better value to have a Two Together Railcard rather than an F&F because our kid has only just had his fifth birthday.

Given that the main point of Railcards is to attract discretionary leisure travel, they really are stupidly over complex for the discretionary leisure traveller to understand.
 

Deerfold

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The fact that "it depends entirely on the railcard" is pretty bureaucratic, tbh.

Depending on the journey I'm making, it's better value for me to either use a Cotswold Line Railcard, a Network Card, or a Family & Friends Railcard. (Total cost: £70pa.) A couple of weeks ago it might have been better value to have a Two Together Railcard rather than an F&F because our kid has only just had his fifth birthday.
Is there any journey that's cheaper with a Two Together Railcard than a Family and Friends one?

Given that the main point of Railcards is to attract discretionary leisure travel, they really are stupidly over complex for the discretionary leisure traveller to understand.
I got a Two Together Railcard in May. I took two photos on my phone and uploaded them to the website. Within the week I had the Railcard in my hand, without having had to leave the house. We've used it for 2 journeys so far. It paid for itself with the first one.
 

Doctor Fegg

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Is there any journey that's cheaper with a Two Together Railcard than a Family and Friends one?
Two adults and one child under five. On a Family & Friends you need to buy a child ticket to get the adult discount; on a Two Together you don't.

The fact that this arbitrary rule needs explaining on a forum full of self-professed train geeks shows how overly complex the railcard system is.
 

Haywain

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Two adults and one child under five. On a Family & Friends you need to buy a child ticket to get the adult discount; on a Two Together you don't.
That's not cheaper, it's the same prices but with one less ticket.
 

Haywain

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Depending on the journey I'm making, it's better value for me to either use a Cotswold Line Railcard, a Network Card, or a Family & Friends Railcard. (Total cost: £70pa.) A couple of weeks ago it might have been better value to have a Two Together Railcard rather than an F&F because our kid has only just had his fifth birthday.
You should be delighted to have so many options to save money. There are many people who don't have the opportunity to benefit from even one railcard.
 

py_megapixel

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I don't need it explaining to me. Apologies for being in a hurry and typing it the wrong way round.

I've not described myself as a train geek - there's no need to be rude.
I don't think they were trying to be rude to you - he was saying that given the membership of this forum probably understands the ticketing system much better than the average passenger, the quantity of confusion the system causes even to us is testament to the fact that the system is overcomplicated!

In other words - it's the system's fault that you could even make that mistake in the first place, and more than anything else that shows how silly the system is.
 

RPI

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But the fact is that trains are going about at certain times with plenty of empty seats = capacity that could be used perhaps by attracting people off Megabus/ National express. Naturally, it is desirable to have some spare capacity in order to have a turn up and pay on the day convenience without people being forced to stand. Allowance must also be made for trains having one section of their journey being at off peak time but hitting a peak time further on.
In the past two weeks I've worked Exeter to London most days and all have been very well loaded, to the point where its not possible for everyone to have window seats
 

Envoy

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In the past two weeks I've worked Exeter to London most days and all have been very well loaded, to the point where its not possible for everyone to have window seats
I am pleased that loadings are getting back to normal.
 

Doctor Fegg

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You should be delighted to have so many options to save money. There are many people who don't have the opportunity to benefit from even one railcard.
Ah, the railway's traditional heart-warming attitude of "be grateful for what we give you and don't you dare ask for more, you miserable proles".
 

Haywain

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Ah, the railway's traditional heart-warming attitude of "be grateful for what we give you and don't you dare ask for more, you miserable proles".
There's nothing wrong with asking for more, but try and appreciate how much more you have than others. Is being unselfish such a bad thing?
 

miami

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Ah, the railway's traditional heart-warming attitude of "be grateful for what we give you and don't you dare ask for more, you miserable proles".

That would be fine if it didn't take £300+ per family before they even step foot on a train
 

Spamcan81

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That thread is a poor example. As far as I can tell the OP bought a physical railcard online, and tried travelling with the receipt as the railcard hadn't arrived in time.

As to the second one - 'Trouble signing railcard' - the OP says they were struggling to sign it due to a manufacturing fault missing the signature strip off. They didn't get any hassle using it. Has anyone ever had any trouble for not signing a physical railcard....?

In all the years of using various railcards, I've never had the rear of one checked for a signature.
 

miami

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Haywain

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And another one

Is that anything to do with having not signed a railcard? No, it isn't.
 

miami

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Railcard add risks (and thus lead to grovelling). They add cost, and they put off occasional travellers - the very ones the railways should be trying to accomplish.

And for what? £50m a year extra revenue? Less than 1% of taxpayers normal subsidy?
 

Diplodicus

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In other words - it's the system's fault that you could even make that mistake in the first place, and more than anything else that shows how silly the system is.
A "system" is an intangible concept. It is the fault of the person/team who designed, implemented and tested the procedures.
 

Argyle 1980

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Majority of GWR advance fares at the moment all seem to be the same price throughout the day and shave only pence (literally) off the price of a super off peak.
If this fare structure continues for much longer, then they'll possibly be in trouble with advertising standards with their persistent adverts and emails with the "save upto 50% with advance fares"
I did ask GWR a few weeks ago to show me an example of any services where more than 65 pence was saved between an advance and a super off peak, and all they could show me was the 2202 Padd-Plymouth for between £27.75 and £35.10 instead of all the other advance fares on all other services priced at £40.30 which obviously is only a 65 pence saving against a super off peak single.
Didn't megabus get done by the advertising standards over the "from £1 fare" slogan despite the first two seats on every service being priced at £1?
 

JonathanH

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Majority of GWR advance fares at the moment all seem to be the same price throughout the day and shave only pence (literally) off the price of a super off peak.
As noted upthread, it appears that advance fares are being priced by date rather than reflecting demand - so you will see cheaper advances further out from now in some cases but those fares get removed if they aren't bought within a given time frame.
 

Bluejays

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Majority of GWR advance fares at the moment all seem to be the same price throughout the day and shave only pence (literally) off the price of a super off peak.
If this fare structure continues for much longer, then they'll possibly be in trouble with advertising standards with their persistent adverts and emails with the "save upto 50% with advance fares"
I did ask GWR a few weeks ago to show me an example of any services where more than 65 pence was saved between an advance and a super off peak, and all they could show me was the 2202 Padd-Plymouth for between £27.75 and £35.10 instead of all the other advance fares on all other services priced at £40.30 which obviously is only a 65 pence saving against a super off peak single.
Didn't megabus get done by the advertising standards over the "from £1 fare" slogan despite the first two seats on every service being priced at £1?
Maybe it has changed over the last couple of weeks, but that doesn't tie up with what I'm seeing. Lots of heavily discounted advance tickets popping up when checking and scanning tickets
 

JonathanH

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On 18 June, I bought an advance single fare between Reigate at Midgham for travel on 26 June for £5.00. Today, I look at BRFares and the cheapest tier for that journey is now £15.20.

Advance tiers for that journey now range between £15.20 and £20.30. An off-peak day single is £20.80 and an off-peak day return is £20.90. The off-peak return is £35.40. Someone (without a Network Railcard) might make a saving for a single journey and may save £5 on a period return using the advance fares but it is fairly tenuous. Who exactly are these advance fares targetted at?

Why are fares changing outside the three changes during the year? Presumably the fares manager found too many people using lower fares at peak times and had to reset them?
 

Watershed

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Who exactly are these advance fares targetted at?
People who book each journey separately, shortly before they travel, and who will be shown the Advance as the cheapest option.

A minimal saving for the passenger whilst GWR/the DfT is quids in.
 

infobleep

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People who book each journey separately, shortly before they travel, and who will be shown the Advance as the cheapest option.

A minimal saving for the passenger whilst GWR/the DfT is quids in.
How is the DfT quids in if the person is paying less?
 

JonathanH

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infobleep

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The cheapest GWR advance fare for Guildford to Oxford is now £15.00 following the changes.


(Ignore the promotional fare as that isn't normally available.)
Well, that is probably the last time I'll be buying an advanced purchase ticket to Oxford.

The discounted off peak day return is £13.75.

The overnight one is £22.55.

I guess if you needed to travel before you could get a discount and over two days, there may be some advantage.

However, I can't get any full price fares to Oxford on the National Rail Enquiries app as it keeps routing me onto Cross Country who have no reservations left or open.

I can't be bothered to go elsewhere to check.
 
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