trains running,sorry no passengers,use the bus

[merlodlliw]

for whatever reason,this takes the biscuit, ertms and all. For two days,no cycles,.no prams,no luggage,no dogs(except GD)


Monday 25 and Tuesday 26 October 2010 - Train service alterations between Harlech and Pwllheli
On these dates, essential Driver training will be taking place between Harlech and Pwllheli. Trains will not be able to carry passengers at this time. A rail replacement bus service will be in operation between Harlech and Pwllheli, Buses will connect into/out of the services at Harlech. Trains will depart and arrive at Harlech as advertised in the National Rail Timetable and call at all stations as seen in the downloadable timetable below. Passengers from Pwllheli will need to depart Pwllheli at an EARLIER time. The Arriva Trains Wales replacement bus service is shown in the timetable below.

See ATW web site

 

[The Planner]

Whats wrong with it ?? ERTMS is switched on tonight on that section so two days to test run and make sure everyone is happy to sign it off for passenger use doesnt seem drastic to me. The schools are on holiday and the timetable is based around them anyway.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

What is ERTMS?

 

[GB]

http://www.ertms.com/

 

[MidnightFlyer]

So is it an on-train signalling sytem or what? Thanks for the link BTW

 

[imagination]

Why do it on a Monday & Tuesday rather than on the Saturday and Sunday?

Note: this from someone who has no knowledge of the area or what has been happening. Forgive me if that question is idiotic.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

There are still ATW replacement buses from Pwllheli, they just depart earlier so they connect with the train to leave Harlech on time. What's the big deal?

 

[Gavelex]

So is it an on-train signalling sytem or what? Thanks for the link BTW

http://www.ertms.com/faq.aspx

 

[A60K]

There are still ATW replacement buses from Pwllheli, they just depart earlier so they connect with the train to leave Harlech on time. What's the big deal?

The opening paragraph of the original post will give a clue

 

[merlodlliw]

Why do it on a Monday & Tuesday rather than on the Saturday and Sunday?

Note: this from someone who has no knowledge of the area or what has been happening. Forgive me if that question is idiotic.

indeed not a train on the line today Sunday,
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Whats wrong with it ?? ERTMS is switched on tonight on that section so two days to test run and make sure everyone is happy to sign it off for passenger use doesnt seem drastic to me. The schools are on holiday and the timetable is based around them anyway.

The schools may be on holiday, perhaps a few might have used the trains for holiday use, perhaps its me, but shutting the passenger service for training for two days perhaps could have been better thought out, but then Network Rail are only two years late with ertms & £Ms over budget on the project, so who cares about passengers any more. Also what about other passengers besides school children.

 

[mumrar]

what about other passengers besides school children.

A lot of nice parents try to share time off with their kids, so possibly some of the business users of the service will be off too? Perhaps NR have chosen now because, as it's already very late, maybe they want it to get finished once and for all at the earliest chance.

 

[The Planner]

Also what about other passengers besides school children.

And if ATW tried to change the timetable so it wasnt convenient for the schools ??

 

[Gareth Marston]

And if ATW tried to change the timetable so it wasnt convenient for the schools ??

A couple of years ago the main schools concerned @ Tywyn & Harlech altered there school opening hours so that the Cambrian Coast services could connect (in the Shrewsbury direction only) with the Aberystwyth to Birmingham services at Machynlleth. The reason the coast line escaped closure in the 60's & 70's is this traffic. The line crosses a number of estuaries that there are no road bridges over meaning its quicker by train especially over the Mawddwach Estuary (Barmouth Bridge) where road traffic has to make a 14 mile detour inland.

ERTMS should have been developed on a test track first not an operational line where passengers are disrupted as outline above , the rumor mill says if this coming week is successful they'll roll ertms out for the entire Cambrian in the February 11 half term.

 

[The Planner]

No rumour, thats the official plan. AFIAK there isnt a test track that could replicate the various moves and junctions that the Cambrian has.

 

[Squaddie]

There are still ATW replacement buses from Pwllheli, they just depart earlier so they connect with the train to leave Harlech on time. What's the big deal?

You really do seem to be the rail companies' dream customer, accepting almost any amount of inconvenience without a murmur of complaint.

 

[Mr Spock]

Must admit I am at a loss to understand the fuss as well, it is booked for 2 days not 2 months.

If it needs doing then it has to be done.

 

[merlodlliw]

Must admit I am at a loss to understand the fuss as well, it is booked for 2 days not 2 months.

If it needs doing then it has to be done.

Well Mr Spock, it may not effect you, I have to ask the question,why can this not be done in the night, as trains on that line run in the dark, also Sunday had not a train on that line, between H & Pwl. I am sure there are reasons why not & closing the service to customers and busing them seems the easy option all too frequent nowadays and a real turnoff for prospective rail users.

 

[mumrar]

I don't see the fuss either, would you rather have drivers operating the system without familiarity of the system and accidents possibly happening? I'm hardly surprised by the OP, it seems that even during a global recession, which may suggest otherwise, they are under the impression that Wales is the only country in Western Europe. What is the opposite of a NIMBY, someone who thinks EVERYTHING should happen in their back yard?

 

[Chris125]

The testing on the Cambrian is about making sure it works as expected in real life conditions, not in isolation on a test track - not only does that involve converting an operating railway with a mixture of loops, junctions, level crossings, obsolete technology etc but when driver training is undertake that too has to replicate real life - you cant do that solely during short periods at night; it wouldnt have identified the issue of glare on the screen for example.

Chris

 

[ainsworth74]

I also don't see the fuss over work which is needed. I'm currently in Hull and the line between Hull and Doncaster is bustituted between Hull and Goole yet I don't hear howls of complaint ringing out about this necessary engineering work (which has been going on for 2-3 weeks not days) its the same on the line to Scarborough, from about Filey buses to Scarborough. Engineering work (be it to test in the real world a new signalling system or relay track and install new signals) is a necessary evil, so I don't get why people complain so loudly about it, is it annoying? Of course it is, but it is also necessary and far better to have some disruption than take risks with safety or risk chaos should the system fail once in operation with passengers.

 

[tbtc]

I also don't see the fuss over work which is needed. I'm currently in Hull and the line between Hull and Doncaster is bustituted between Hull and Goole yet I don't hear howls of complaint ringing out about this necessary engineering work (which has been going on for 2-3 weeks not days) its the same on the line to Scarborough, from about Filey buses to Scarborough. Engineering work (be it to test in the real world a new signalling system or relay track and install new signals) is a necessary evil, so I don't get why people complain so loudly about it, is it annoying? Of course it is, but it is also necessary and far better to have some disruption than take risks with safety or risk chaos should the system fail once in operation with passengers.

Agreed 100%.

There are always parts of the country without a "normal" service. The important thing here is that the ERTMS is getting progressed as quickly as possible - certain people would be complaining were it not to be

 

[merlodlliw]

Agreed 100%.

There are always parts of the country without a "normal" service. The important thing here is that the ERTMS is getting progressed as quickly as possible - certain people would be complaining were it not to be

With all due respect ertms getting progressed as quickly as possible? its two years behind schedule & £Ms over budget, also the glare should have been picked up during R&D
not on installation surely, anyhow they are using Arriva buses, so its kept in the family I suppose.

 

[GB]

Testing in a static environment only gets you so far. What is happening with ERTMS is no different to resignalling a route with conventional signals. This being design, installation, testing and driver training. I really don't know why some people are getting worked up over a two day closure.

 

[talltim]

You never know when you will be glad of bustitution. Back in summer 2007 Central Trains' Liverpool-Norwich service was avoiding Sheffield and was replaced by a bus Sheffield-Chesterfield. Well it rained a lot that summer and on 25th June there was widespread flooding. I had to get back from work in Sheffield, the trains weren't running, the busses weren't running but the rail replacement was! It might have taken two hours, my house may have been flooded when I got back, but it saved a long walk!

 

[westcoaster]

You really do seem to be the rail companies' dream customer, accepting almost any amount of inconvenience without a murmur of complaint.

I would rather be inconvenienced, then something going wrong with testing, you could just read the headline in the papers if something went wrong;

PASSENGERS PUT IN DANGER

TRAINS ALMOST COLIDE

PASSENGERS USED AS GUINEA PIGS

Better to get testing done during less busy times, rather than annoying the masses.

 

[tbtc]

With all due respect ertms getting progressed as quickly as possible? its two years behind schedule & £Ms over budget, also the glare should have been picked up during R&D
not on installation surely, anyhow they are using Arriva buses, so its kept in the family I suppose.

...so, given the delays, would you rather they tackled the training now, or delayed it even further?

 

[mumrar]

My thoughts exactly tbtc, too often the OP appears in here demanding far too much from a single franchise covering the whole country (as we all know that WSMR are beyond perfect under the rosy specs) and the infrastructure company that also has to deal with the rest of mainland Britain. There are probably more track miles within the borough of London (if you count individual running lines) than the whole of Wales, but how dare we let them be ignored.

 

[MCR247]

I bet if Network Rail had thought, we'll leave it until between Christmas & New Year when it won't be as busy, we'd have a thread saying it is late already etc

 

[merlodlliw]

Final response, not a word from any one about Cambrian ertms being two years behind schedule or £Ms over budget, ill, leave it there, as I detect its getting too personal now.

 

[jopsuk]

Um, most of the discussion has been about the delays and how a final blockade to get things sorted, during a school holiday when the line will be quiter, is actually justifiable. Presumably it wasn't a last minute thing either.
It being well over budget isn't good, but there's nothing that can sort that now, and not having the blockade would probably make it even more over budget as it gets further delayed.
The end result is supposed to be more frequent, faster, services isn't it?
There's been one poster making personal comments about you.