New 4-tier system for England

[trainophile]

Herefordshire’s director of public health has come out and said she’s disappointed about moving from tier 2 to tier 1
(Source: BBC Radio 4)

As quoted in post #352 ^ .

 

[Ascotroyal]

Well quelle surprise, no move for anywhere in T'Grim North of England, despite rates plummeting. Any hopes of seeing even a tad bit of normality smashed for 2020. One small consolation is that it has already angered quite a lot more people, including some supporters of previous lockdowns. I think this is rapidly becoming a North vs South issue in the eyes of a lot of people. A cynical person, I mean really cynical person might suggest that this is a deliberate move by the government to get people so riled up that they ignore the Christmas "guidance". Then if numbers increase again, the government have got themselves another few months of scapegoats and excuses.

The Harrying of the North continues....

Down here in Berkshire there are a lot more people now angry at going into tier 3. Not one person iv spoke to at work about it today is happy about it and they are very angry and fed up and some of these people supported the 2 lockdowns we have had.

 

[bramling]

Down here in Berkshire there are a lot more people now angry at going into tier 3. Not one person iv spoke to at work about it today is happy about it and they are very angry and fed up and some of these people supported the 2 lockdowns we have had.

I wonder if this might trigger a bit of a change for some people. My area is full of lockdown enthusiasts, being your stereotypical middle-aged well-to-do work-from-home types. However now *they* are in tier 3, as opposed to others up north, I wonder if their view may change.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Dec 2020 ==

Spot on.
It was never going to be easy dealing with Covid but Johnson and Hancock have demonstrated how detached they are with the decisions they have made being communicated out that effect millions in such a flip flop way.

Unfortunately I can't post what I think of Boris Johnson on here as it would fall well foul of decency. Hancock I think it simply an excitable puppy-dog but whose enthusiasm isn't matched by his intelligence - well that's the polite version anyway!

Seeing Stanley Johnson speak is quite revealing. He comes across as a complete and utter doltz. It's quite clear this is where BJ has got it from. Hardly the sort of background / upbringing for someone charged with making such important decisions for a country. We really need to get away from the personality politics of the last two decades, as this is (partly) what is causing us to get such bottom-grade leaders.

 

[Crossover]

Seeing Stanley Johnson speak is quite revealing. He comes across as a complete and utter doltz. It's quite clear this is where BJ has got it from.

There was something he said a few months back - something medical related, but I forget what. It just went to show how utterly out of touch he is with society

 

[TheSel]

There was something he said a few months back - something medical related, but I forget what. It just went to show how utterly out of touch he is with society

He said "Only the truly intelligent will fail to recall the detail of what I'm saying". Or at least, I think he did!

 

[CaptainHaddock]

As a resident I would say not especially, but there is a lot of sparsely populated countryside around so it wouldn't surprise me if there are a few.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Dec 2020 ==



Undoubtedly. Also people coming over the border from South Wales I bet.

As a a supporter of Hereford FC I'm delighted with the shire dropping down into tier 1. not only does it mean I'll be able to go to home games and enjoy a few beers with friends beforehand, but also we are now the only "elite" football club allowed to have crowds of up to 4,000 and thus for the next fortnight at least will be the best supported football team in England!

 

[duncanp]

Also slipped in under the radar is the fact the the budget will be on March 3rd next year, and the furlough scheme is being extended until the end of April.

When the true economic cost of all these restrictions starts to become apparent, the support for continuing the tier system will start to wane.

I also think that there will some easing of restrictions before the tier system is renewed in parliament at the end of January, just so that MPs will vote for it.

 

[trainophile]

As a a supporter of Hereford FC I'm delighted with the shire dropping down into tier 1. not only does it mean I'll be able to go to home games and enjoy a few beers with friends beforehand, but also we are now the only "elite" football club allowed to have crowds of up to 4,000 and thus for the next fortnight at least will be the best supported football team in England!

4,000? Does the ground hold that many?

 

[Crossover]

He said "Only the truly intelligent will fail to recall the detail of what I'm saying". Or at least, I think he did!

I'll go with that

 

[DelayRepay]

This is all a sideshow now really. The only game that matters now is vaccine deployment. Hancock and Johnson must be rubbing their hands with glee that the focus is all on tiers, and not upon the terrifically slow and poorly rolled out vaccination program.

And more to the point, the focus is not on the impending chaos that will be caused by their version of Brexit.

However I'm not really surprised that not many areas moved down the tiers given the overall rise, and the fact we have the Christmas relaxation starting in a week. I would not want to be making the decisions but if I had to, I probably wouldn't have moved any areas down either.

 

[DJH1971]

Heard on Facebook that they are checking on people coming into York station and turning away people from Tier 3 areas.

And yet thought this was mere guidance and not law.

Feeling like knitting fog.

 

[BJames]

Heard on Facebook that they are checking on people coming into York station and turning away people from Tier 3 areas.

And yet thought this was mere guidance and not law.

Feeling like knitting fog.

If this is true, for the avoidance of doubt is there an actual legal basis for this? I.e. is there a regulation that can be quoted to back this up, or is this really just "advice against"?

And is "they" referring to police do you know or railway staff?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

If this is true, for the avoidance of doubt is there an actual legal basis for this? I.e. is there a regulation that can be quoted to back this up, or is this really just "advice against"?

And is "they" referring to police do you know or railway staff?

According to govt webpage for Tier 3 it says

avoid travelling outside of your area, including for overnight stays other than where necessary, such as for work, education, youth services, to receive medical treatment, or because of caring responsibilities. You can travel through other areas as part of a longer journey

avoid is not must not

 

[bramling]

Heard on Facebook that they are checking on people coming into York station and turning away people from Tier 3 areas.

And yet thought this was mere guidance and not law.

Feeling like knitting fog.

I really hope this is not the case. I am properly sick of all this now.

 

[BJames]

According to govt webpage for Tier 3 it says



avoid is not must not

So they simply cannot tell you to turn around then. Yet more scaremongering and misinformation...

I really hope this is not the case. I am properly sick of all this now.

Same, have had enough of this overpolicing. This lack of understanding of the difference between guidance and law from police and other officials within the different tiers needs fixing urgently.

 

[DJH1971]

I really hope this is not the case. I am properly sick of all this now.

Again, another case of some people interpreting the rules their own way.

 

[sheff1]

Wakefield is at 161 per 100,000, which is below the national average.

If we're still in tier 3 at the end of the day, it will illustrate even more starkly what a sham the tier system is.

Sheffield is 151. Derbyshire Dales 71. North East Derbyshire 122. Chestefield 124.

But, of course, you can't split counties ..... except where you do

If we're discussing tiers and trying to ascribe logic to them then we're being distracted from the bigger picture. There shouldn't be any tiers.

The discussion seems to be more about the illogicality of tiers.

 

[bramling]

Sheffield is 151. Derbyshire Dales 71. North East Derbyshire 122. Chestefield 124.

But, of course, you can't split counties ..... except where you do


The discussion seems to be more about the illogicality of tiers.

The trouble with the tiers is it provides fuel for an “it’s not fair I’m in tier 3 and he’s in tier 2” argument, which up until now has played out as north versus south. This is a total distraction from the real issue which is the shambolic handling of this by politicians who might be able to spell fictional words like Pinocchio but are utterly ineptly useless at anything which actually matters.

 

[Cdd89]

I agree with the sentiments around Tier 3, and the issue is the endless nature of it - in that the only thing that will change the course is case rates changing, and no consideration is given to the limits of people’s tolerance for these sorts of restrictions.

Humans are social animals and lockdown tolerance is limited - most people can’t do lockdown indefinitely, banning things and shouting “don’t meet up” doesn’t change that, it just shifts people to less safe contexts.

It’s the same principle as why abstinence-only sex education is ineffective. It’s odd that people who understand risk reduction in other contexts don’t seem to get it in this one, and instead maintain the fantasy that humans behave like robots in following their rules to the letter.

 

[Ian Cunningham]

Heard on Facebook that they are checking on people coming into York station and turning away people from Tier 3 areas.

And yet thought this was mere guidance and not law.

Feeling like knitting fog.

Is there actual evidence of this happening or just hearsay on FB?

We had lots of reports of people from East Lothian being stopped and turned around by the Police stopping them going into Edinburgh (Level 2 to 3) - usually warning that "a friend" that got stopped trying to get to Fort Kinnaird shopping area
It was all bollocks - all there was was a police cycling safety initiative educating drivers about close passes but the rumour circulated for about two days

 

[Jamiescott1]

Headline in the daily mail that boris will implement a tier 4 after Christmas which will ban commuting

"Ministers are mulling over a 'Tier 4' crackdown after Christmas, with commuting banned, non-essential shops shut and schools closed an extra week, as officials search for new plans to keep Covid case numbers under control"

Not sure how the school i work in would be able to open when over 90% of staff commute on public transport to get there.

 

[philosopher]

Headline in the daily mail that boris will implement a tier 4 after Christmas which will ban commuting

"Ministers are mulling over a 'Tier 4' crackdown after Christmas, with commuting banned, non-essential shops shut and schools closed an extra week, as officials search for new plans to keep Covid case numbers under control"

Not sure how the school i work in would be able to open when over 90% of staff commute on public transport to get there.

I assume the commuting ban would be restricted to jobs where you can work from home. If this is the case then a tier 4 would in effect be the same as the November lockdown.

 

[trebor79]

Heard on Facebook that they are checking on people coming into York station and turning away people from Tier 3 areas.

And yet thought this was mere guidance and not law.

Feeling like knitting fog.

Is there actual evidence of this happening or just hearsay on FB?

We had lots of reports of people from East Lothian being stopped and turned around by the Police stopping them going into Edinburgh (Level 2 to 3) - usually warning that "a friend" that got stopped trying to get to Fort Kinnaird shopping area
It was all bollocks - all there was was a police cycling safety initiative educating drivers about close passes but the rumour circulated for about two days

There is lots of stuff on social media, on both sides of the debate, and I'm suspicious of all of it if it's not linked back to a reputable source. For pretty fantastical stories like this, my BS detector is triggered, especially when there's nothing to back it up.
Mind, we did have police sending drones after hill walkers in the spring, but I'd like to think the police have learnt from such episodes that they are to police the law and not any guidance.

 

[duncanp]

Headline in the daily mail that boris will implement a tier 4 after Christmas which will ban commuting

"Ministers are mulling over a 'Tier 4' crackdown after Christmas, with commuting banned, non-essential shops shut and schools closed an extra week, as officials search for new plans to keep Covid case numbers under control"

Not sure how the school i work in would be able to open when over 90% of staff commute on public transport to get there.

I wonder how long this "Tier 4" lockdown would last.

It would have to be at least four weeks for it to have any effect.

And then what happens afterwards?

The government would have to get Tier 4 through parliament, and I hope MPs grow a pair and refuse to back the new tier unless there is a clear strategy about what comes afterwards.

What is damaging for business and people's mental health is this constant uncertainty.

No sooner have a new set of tiers been announced, then the very next day there is speculation about having to go further.

Just getting fed up with it all.

 

[adc82140]

Heard on Facebook that they are checking on people coming into York station and turning away people from Tier 3 areas.

And yet thought this was mere guidance and not law.

Feeling like knitting fog.

As there is no legal requirement to carry ID in this country, so no way of police proving where you are from, I'm afraid I'm calling Facebook BS.

 

[DJH1971]

None of the other papers are reporting this, well yet anyway.

I wonder how long this "Tier 4" lockdown would last.

It would have to be at least four weeks for it to have any effect.

And then what happens afterwards?

The government would have to get Tier 4 through parliament, and I hope MPs grow a pair and refuse to back the new tier unless there is a clear strategy about what comes afterwards.

What is damaging for business and people's mental health is this constant uncertainty.

No sooner have a new set of tiers been announced, then the very next day there is speculation about having to go further.

Just getting fed up with it all.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Headline in the daily mail that boris will implement a tier 4 after Christmas which will ban commuting

"Ministers are mulling over a 'Tier 4' crackdown after Christmas, with commuting banned, non-essential shops shut and schools closed an extra week, as officials search for new plans to keep Covid case numbers under control"

Not sure how the school i work in would be able to open when over 90% of staff commute on public transport to get there.

If the choice is between a new Tier 4 and another national lockdown (and unfortunately, that's how the government will see it), then I'd rather have a Tier 4. It'd be ludicrous to close down all the shops on the Isle of Wight just because of a rise in infections in Romford.

 

[Bantamzen]

Headline in the daily mail that boris will implement a tier 4 after Christmas which will ban commuting

"Ministers are mulling over a 'Tier 4' crackdown after Christmas, with commuting banned, non-essential shops shut and schools closed an extra week, as officials search for new plans to keep Covid case numbers under control"

Not sure how the school i work in would be able to open when over 90% of staff commute on public transport to get there.

I'd love to know how commuting could be banned. The country would literally grind to a halt.

 

[adc82140]

The latest infection map is pretty much a map of the commuter belt. In my direction the high rates stop at Basingstoke. It's only natural. It'll trough like it did in the north west. Nothing to do with tier 3, everything to to with natural ebbs and flows.

Incidentally I saw a report on the BBC yesterday saying that Thanksgiving in the US made not one jot of difference to the infection rates. They were climbing slowly before, and continued to climb slowly after. I'll be glad when this Christmas hysteria is over and they move on to the next thing.

 

[Crossover]

I'd love to know how commuting could be banned. The country would literally grind to a halt.

Sounds mostly like an attention grabbing headline. In reality, we could return to something more akin to March/April where people are advised to work at home wherever possible. As long as we don't go back to "key workers" messaging, I could probably live with it