Is anyone else feeling politically homeless?

[ABB125]

I have to agree that I'm politically homeless; with hindsight I'm gland that I wasn't quite old enough to vote in the last election!

The problem I have is that, despite being called a "raving right wing nutter" by some friends, I generally agree with socialist policies. However, for a variety of reasons (including my own opinion based on the past, and parental influence) I will never vote Labour, the Liberal Democrats are a wasted vote, and I live in a blue constituency surrounded by a sea of blue, so whatever I vote will have precisely no effect. Yet I can't bring myself to support the Conservatives either, based on various policies and past performance.
I would absolutely love to set up my own "reform party", but that would achieve absolutely nothing.

If only there were a "none of the above" option on the ballot paper (I believe there is in Australia?). I suspect "none of the above" would absolutely annihilate everyone else in the next election! Although that does beg the question, what happens if "none of the above" wins every seat?

 

[AngusH]

Anarchy?
Direct Rule by the Queen?
Perhaps something like that situation in Belgium (a few years ago) where
they couldn't elect a government and stuff just sort of carried on?

The mind boggles...

 

[Bald Rick]

Not picking on anyone in particular here, but a number of people have said ‘voting for the Lib Dem’s is a wasted vote’.

If everyone who thought that actually did vote Lib Dem, they would gain quite a few seats. It actually happened here in St Albans, which I suspect is one of the few constituencies that has been represented by each of a Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem MP this century.

 

[ABB125]

Not picking on anyone in particular here, but a number of people have said ‘voting for the Lib Dem’s is a wasted vote’.

If everyone who thought that actually did vote Lib Dem, they would gain quite a few seats. It actually happened here in St Albans, which I suspect is one of the few constituencies that has been represented by each of a Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem MP this century.

But the problem is, no one's actually going to! Although if we moved to proportional representation, I'd be willing to bet that their vote share would shoot up.

 

[Bald Rick]

But the problem is, no one's actually going to!

That’s what was said in St Albans. It took 4 elections of hard campaigning, but it happened.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Not picking on anyone in particular here, but a number of people have said ‘voting for the Lib Dem’s is a wasted vote’.

If everyone who thought that actually did vote Lib Dem, they would gain quite a few seats. It actually happened here in St Albans, which I suspect is one of the few constituencies that has been represented by each of a Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem MP this century.

That’s what was said in St Albans. It took 4 elections of hard campaigning, but it happened.

You may have a good point there.

 

[ABB125]

That’s what was said in St Albans. It took 4 elections of hard campaigning, but it happened.

That may be so, but I'm not convinced it could be replicated across the country, at least not to a significant enough extent.

 

[Cowley]

That’s what was said in St Albans. It took 4 elections of hard campaigning, but it happened.

I do agree with you on that. It feels like a message they need to find a way to get across though somehow.
If ever there was a time for a third party to mop up some votes then surely this last couple of years (and next couple actually) would be the time?

 

[ABB125]

I do agree with you on that. It feels like a message they need to find a way to get across though somehow.
If ever there was a time for a third party to mop up some votes then surely this last couple of years (and next couple actually) would be the time?

I have to agree; if they can't mop up votes in the current climate, they may as well give up. Yet I also don't think a new party would do very well (cough cough Change UK) at all.

 

[david1212]

I have felt like this for a long time.

Thinking back to at least 1997 I have not directly voted for the party I want to see in power but rather strategically for what I see as the least worst option. Once I actually submitted a spoilt paper by writing ' non of these '. As others have said with the current ' first past the post ' system for each seat a vote for a minor party carries the risk of letting what I see as the worst option in.

For the last election it was hard to decide as locally the then current MP had taken a much greater interest in local issues and achieved some changes compared to previous ones yet nationally the result could have gone either way. As it turned out nationally while many marginal results the conservatives ended up with a huge majority of the seats. As to if they won or labour under Corbyn lost that is a debate for another thread. Locally the MP did hold the seat but by under 1000 votes.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I do agree with you on that. It feels like a message they need to find a way to get across though somehow.
If ever there was a time for a third party to mop up some votes then surely this last couple of years (and next couple actually) would be the time?

You would think so but then in 1981/1982 millions thought that too.

 

[mikeg]

I too feel a little politically homeless, but as something of a left wing anti-populist contrarian I guess I always have. Honestly the evidence-based to populist spectrum is to me now as important as the left-right spectrum or authoritarian - libertarian spectrum.
Don't get me wrong, I'm still on the left of the former and fairly centrist on the latter, but would happily vote for a party who differed somewhat from my views on these if they took a rigorous, scientific approach to governing and were prepared to come up with big ideas and detailed policies to solve the country's problems rather than soundbites or short-term vote-winners.

Sadly Change UK/The Independent Group's policies were reasonably sound but they way they conducted their internal party structure was poor. They had reasonable policies, yes, but where was the room for big ideas?

 

[D365]

If only there were a "none of the above" option on the ballot paper (I believe there is in Australia?). I suspect "none of the above" would absolutely annihilate everyone else in the next election! Although that does beg the question, what happens if "none of the above" wins every seat?

That's a spoiled ballot here.

 

[Bald Rick]

I do agree with you on that. It feels like a message they need to find a way to get across though somehow.
If ever there was a time for a third party to mop up some votes then surely this last couple of years (and next couple actually) would be the time?

In St Albans the Lib Dem’s were helped by an appalling sitting Conservative, very strong anti Brexit feeling, a new and upcoming Lib Dem candidate, and Corbyn. All of these factors came together in 2017, snd the Lib Dem’s still fell short by 10%, but the electorate realised that the Lib Dem candidate could win, and that was enough for 2019.

I’m not saying this will work everywhere else, but certainly in some constituencies.

 

[birchesgreen]

Picking up on a couple of themes here, i think covid is too big an issue to be party political in many ways. The ideal would have been to have had a government of national unity during the first lockdown, though that ship has long sailed.

As for votes for party X being a "wasted vote". A vote is only a wasted vote only if you have some kind of (considerable) conceit that your vote is so very very special and can decide the future direction of the country. Relax, your vote is as special as all the other millions of them. Vote for your conscience, thats more important that thinking you can't vote for the party you like as they can't win. In a small number of seats tactical voting is an option so thats a different decision to make.

 

[squizzler]

The lib dems are what huge numbers of people would want if you actually forced it out of them: a progressive party with sensible policies which - and this is the big one - not in thrall to vested interests and their lobbyists. Of course it is that last point that which is the reason there is no media coverage. They are perpetual outsiders.

The same vested interests make sure that anyone who wants to vote for a political outsider chooses Farage's political vehicle for this election, because we are always being told how "anti-establishment" he is by the press, whatever that is supposed to mean in the context of a well connected former currency trader.

I really despair at how the whole electoral landscape in the country, and any frames of reference for political debate, are under the control of monied interests not even based in the UK (Murgoch, Barclay Brothers, Russian troll farms, etc).

 

[telstarbox]

I'm fairly politically engaged and I couldn't tell you a single Lib Dem policy apart from reversing / minimising Brexit (which they may now have dropped anyway).

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Well, technically, the Lib Dems should be an egalitarian "equality without the class baggage of Labour" type party. The trouble is with them is their internationalism, which I doubt would be attractive to Leave voting areas. If their vision of internationalism is nation-states working together to achieve things like tackling climate change, then great, but if they're advocating international institutions to replace the nation-state, then they have a problem.

 

[XAM2175]

If only there were a "none of the above" option on the ballot paper (I believe there is in Australia?).

No, there's no such option. Elections for the Australian House of Representatives use an instant-runoff system (aka alternative, preferential, etc) where you rank the candidates in order of your preference. While more complicated, it preserves the value of votes cast for parties that would otherwise be considered "wasted" and is thus a marked improvement on FPTP. A referendum was held in 2011 on implementing it for the House of Commons, but regrettably it didn't pass.

Australia also has an elected federal upper house and, most controversially, implements compulsory turnout - but these are discussions for a different thread.

 

[jtuk]

No, there's no such option. Elections for the Australian House of Representatives use an instant-runoff system (aka alternative, preferential, etc) where you rank the candidates in order of your preference. While more complicated, it preserves the value of votes cast for parties that would otherwise be considered "wasted" and is thus a marked improvement on FPTP. A referendum was held in 2011 on implementing it for the House of Commons, but regrettably it didn't pass.

The alternative vote option is only vaguely similar to instant run off (it gave us just two choices, rather than being able to rank everyone), and is hence pretty pointless

 

[DynamicSpirit]

He’s useful and effective as a means of getting the other parties, especially the Conservatives, to get their arse in gear.

Interesting. I'd have said the opposite... the Tories were actually turning into a somewhat decent, moderately right-wing - a bit too far to the right for my own tastes, but at least somewhat competent, party under Cameron - until Nigel Farage came along and spooked them. Then they panicked and so began the descent into complete incompetence, lack of any ethics and just doing anything to get votes that now characterises them.

 

[317 forever]

I stopped voting Labour after the Winter of Discontent, and switched to the Liberals, also voting for Shirley Williams and the SDP in the famous Crosby by-election (1983, or thereabouts). But last December I reluctantly abandoned the LibDems because I didn't trust them not to do a deal with Corbyn, and felt that keeping Corbyn out was all-important, and so voted Tory. Also, despite having voted remain, I despised the wholly negative antics of the remainers who willed the end but not the means in the appalling last Parliament. I salved my conscience by voting for my former LibDem MP, John Pugh, after he left Parliament, as my local councillor. So I "split the ticket" as they say in the USA.

I was living in Edinburgh when we had Holyrood and Council elections in 2003. I split my ticket big style then. I voted LibDem for my constituency vote and Green for my List vote but for a Labour Councillor. This was before local elections changed to PR. I had just left the Labour party over Iraq, and felt that the orange/green combo at Holyrood could be best for reforms such as PR and also environmental progress. I still voted Labour in the Council elections as I had found the Council good for transport, library opening hours and, a few years earlier, my Housing Benefit claims. So, as in terms of services I valued I felt we had a good team running the Council, I felt against voting to change them.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Despite this I just can’t square myself with the Left’s political response to Covid. There just seems to be a constant clamour for earlier, longer, harder lockdowns with no heed for people’s livelihoods or mental health; lobbying for a ban on online anti-vaccine content (stopping people saying things we don’t like);

To be fair, there is a difference between stopping people from saying things we don't like (which is obviously wrong and undemocratic) and stopping people from saying and heavily promoting things that are, by any reasonable scientific standards, outright falsehoods. Much of the online anti-vaccine content falls into the latter category, and stopping that is not only essential if we are to avoid people becoming completely misinformed, but arguably important in order to preserve democracy - because democracy can't really function unless people have access to correct information.

demanding a shift to a completely unrealistic ‘zero-Covid’ policy (only smallpox has ever been eradicated);

I'm not sure it's so unrealistic: New Zealand has, for all practical purposes, achieved close to zero-Covid, and Australia and several Asian countries aren't too far behind. Obviously, to achieve that, they acted earlier than the UK and have had fairly strict quarantines on people coming into the country, something we've been reluctant to do here.

 

[317 forever]

Not picking on anyone in particular here, but a number of people have said ‘voting for the Lib Dem’s is a wasted vote’.

If everyone who thought that actually did vote Lib Dem, they would gain quite a few seats. It actually happened here in St Albans, which I suspect is one of the few constituencies that has been represented by each of a Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem MP this century.

I think Burnley and Redcar are other cases in point. Long-term Labour, then LibDem in 2010, then back to Labour in 2015 but Conservative in 2019.

Camborne in Cornwall is interesting. It was part of Falmouth & Camborne which voted Labour in 2001 but LibDem in 2005. In 2010 boundary changes created a new constituency Camborne & Redruth which voted Conservative.

 

[Geezertronic]

I personally think it has been a case of voting for the least worst rather than the best for a fair number of years now, regardless of your "inbuilt" political opinions. The US have been through similar the last two elections as well so we're not on our own

 

[Novern Uproar]

Small c conservative old Labour voter here who despairs at the lot of them. Anyone going to start up a 'Get Freight Off Roads & Onto Rail / Inland Waterways Party'.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I'll also add myself to the 'politically homeless' group.

I was an active Labour member for some years, despite becoming increasingly uneasy about the direction Corbyn was leading the party in. With hindsight, I probably should have left years ago, but only finally did so earlier this year. In the end I figured that Keir Starmer is a pretty good leader whom I can see making a good Prime Minister, but he leads a party that's stuck with Corbyn's legacy of a very toxic culture, a holier-than-thou intolerance towards other viewpoints and a totally unrealistic ideological approach to politics, and I just couldn't support that any more.

Since then, I looked at the LibDems: They ought in many ways to be a natural home for me because my instincts tend to be very pragmatic, concerned about social justice and the environment while also believing in the market economy and maximising individual freedom as much as possible. But I've spent quite a bit of time looking online at what the LibDems are saying at the moment, and I find it very unappealing. In particular, it seems to me that - far from standing up for any identifiable liberal principles, mostly the LibDems currently seem to be falling into the trap of strongly aligning themselves with what I would see as fairly intolerant 'woke' politics and assuming that is the answer to our ills.

As for the Tories - totally out of the question because they seem to have abandoned any kind of moral compass.

Greens - also largely out of the question (other than possibly as a protest vote), even though I regard the environment and climate change as the most important issue of our times, because the Greens seem to have a completely unscientific approach, with a long history of frequently opposing things that are on balance good for combatting climate change (HS2, nuclear power, etc.) without apparently making any attempt to understand what they are opposing.

That seems to rule out all the parties. I suspect I will eventually end up with the LibDems on the basis of least-bad option, but I'm not feeling massively enthusiastic.

 

[507021]

Yes and no.

I've been a member of Labour for the past ten years, and despite being strongly against the Corbyn leadership, I held my nose and kept supporting the party. As a Jewish man, this became more and more difficult towards the end of his leadership. Part of me actually wanted Labour to lose the last election just to get rid of him.

After Corbyn resigned, I voted for Keir Starmer to replace him as leader.

However, the left of the party have now become even more hostile towards anyone who criticises Corbyn. The NEC is a shambles, and frankly whoever on the NEC felt there was no grounds for Corbyn to be suspended should be ejected from the party immediately. I sent my resignation to my CLP secretary over this shocking decision, however retracted it shortly afterwards because I refuse to let the leftists win and because of Starmer's decision not to give Corbyn the party whip back.

Labour is my political home, but the toxic left make it crystal clear I'm not welcome. I fear we will be stuck with them for a very, very long time.

 

[Senex]

Oh for the old-fashioned Liberals of the early part of the C20! Despite some leanings both to right of the Conservatives and the very left of Labour, I feel I belong on the middle ground, and I don't feel there's anyone to represent me or my views. I don't buy in to the package of policies of either Tory or Labour, and whilst I support much of the environmental arguments of the Greens I don't agree with a lot of their non-environment policies. And I find the LibDems just a joke (especially after the antics of their previous leader, who, along with Corbyn, was responsible for giving us the government we've got). You think they are middle-of-the-road, and then you just listen to some of them at their party conference and despair!

It would be so much better to have proper PR, smaller parties with clear identities, and a need for those parties to talk to one another civilly to agree a programme and form a coalition government.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Labour voters-How would the Conservative Party need to change to attract your vote? For me being a Conservative, I would vote for Labour if they seperated from the NEC/Trade Union vote and became more of a "non-London voice" kind of party than just ideological left-wingism.